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Hey Guys,

I was wondering if some kind soul might be able to unravel or explain the idiosyncrasies of this Flash. You need to be a rocket scientist to work things out reading from the manual. What i would love to know are;

Settings for weddings at Night @ In door function and day @ outdoor wedding (generalization i know - just a guide req)
What the AA GN RPT TLL/BL REAR etc (granted i know what they do i think) just don't know what situation to use them in.

Any WebPages or the like that i could be directed too?

This is my last bastion, i really want to nail down my flash work.

Cheers
Dan

The user manual for the SB-800 has to rank amongst the least helpful of any user manuals ever created by any company

It's really more of a technical reference document than a true user manual.

I'm still learning, but this is what I normally do.

Indoors / Night:

Camera set on manual - 1/125, f/4-5.6
If there is a neutral surface within 2-3 metres, bounce off that @ 0ev
If not, go direct @ -2/3ev

Outdoors, daytime:
Camera set on Ap Priority - f/5.6-8
Direct flash @ -1ev

In general, bouncing wastes light so you have to bump up the Flash Exp Comp to match. Bouncing creates softer, more diffuse light. Aperture affects the exposure of your subject. Shutter speed affects the exposure of the background. I normally stick it on TTL, and let the camera and flash work out the best exposure. Normally gets it pretty much right.

Cre8tivepixels wrote:Hey Guys,

Any WebPages or the like that i could be directed too?

Cheers
Dan

I can't recommend this site enough!!
http://www.planetneil.com/faq/flash-techniques.html

It's very well written and covers a great deal of techniques - and it's easy to understand even for a flash newbie like me.

Another useful site, has a lot of flash tecniques but not specifically the SB-800 is http://strobist.blogspot.com/
But as you say the manual is next to useless, as there are so many options it makes you head hurt.

This one might help too.
http://www.daveblackphotography.com/workshop/0408.htm

Some good writings about the SB800 are done by Digital Darrell on the Nikonians website: http://www.nikonians.org/nikon/d200_and_cls/
Also check out the Nikonians forums

Awesome guys..cheers...glad to see that i am not the ONLY one to not understand the manual with the SB800

Dan

You're certainly not alone, I've been using a couple of SB800's for quite a while now and still don't understand how the hell they work!! When shooting with them off camera I always set them to Manual then shoot and chimp but for socials (which I try avoid where i can!) I tend to use TTL and expose for a bit of ambient background light then bounce the flash off the ceiling at approx +1.

also note

if you use manual exposure, aperture, ISO e.g 1/200 f5.6 iso400
setting flash on ttl can produce correct auto exposure results
dont ask me to explain i cant i just know the results

if your in aperture or shutter semi auto exposure modes ttl produces inconsistent results

of course im speaking with d2x experience not sure if this is true with the sb800 and d200

someone correct me if i am wrong

I've found Manual exposure with the SB800 on TTL on my D200 to be about 80% accurate. If you do find it starts behaving very strangely, like one really under-exposed shot followed by an over-exposed one (as long as you're giving it enough time to recycle) then your batteries are probably dying! Shits me that you have no way of knowing how much life is left in the AA's while they're in the flash.

Wendell, what metering mode do you have the camera on when you shoot with the settings you listed?

beetleboy wrote:I've found Manual exposure with the SB800 on TTL on my D200 to be about 80% accurate. If you do find it starts behaving very strangely, like one really under-exposed shot followed by an over-exposed one (as long as you're giving it enough time to recycle) then your batteries are probably dying! Shits me that you have no way of knowing how much life is left in the AA's while they're in the flash.

Wendell, what metering mode do you have the camera on when you shoot with the settings you listed?

matrix man

I've found that shutter doesnt really effect the exposure of the background all that much. be it 1/60 or 1/200 - it seems to be ISO that does.

I'm really going to test this out tonight for this event, ill be playing with ISO from 100 to 800 and shutter from 1/80 to 1/200 - should be interesting.

Flash is a very unknown to me too but Ive found that Manual mode with the flash in ETTL gives fairly consistent results...

I feel the best way to learn is to just play around with it. Devote an afternoon/evening and just try all different kinds of things/situations you think you might come up across.

There are so many variables involved. If you have a rough basis on what to do in certain situations, then you can start from whatever basic settings you find work for you, then tweak them when you need to.

Indoors, I find I generally bounce flash (without diffuser - to avoid direct flash onto the subject), TTL, FEV (0EV), D70 in manual mode, matrix metering, generally f8 @ 60 - 125th sec....then I +/- the FEV depending on the situation.

Outdoors, direct (with diffuser) and FEV between 0 and -2/3rds (aperture priority OR manual, set according to situation).

Aussie Dave wrote:I feel the best way to learn is to just play around with it. Devote an afternoon/evening and just try all different kinds of things/situations you think you might come up across.

There are so many variables involved. If you have a rough basis on what to do in certain situations, then you can start from whatever basic settings you find work for you, then tweak them when you need to.

Indoors, I find I generally bounce flash (without diffuser - to avoid direct flash onto the subject), TTL, FEV (0EV), D70 in manual mode, matrix metering, generally f8 @ 60 - 125th sec....then I +/- the FEV depending on the situation.

Outdoors, direct (with diffuser) and FEV between 0 and -2/3rds (aperture priority OR manual, set according to situation).

With bounce above, youd need to use the catchlight to light up the eye sockets though right otherwise the light above creates a shadow in the eyes...?

Dan,

I went through exactly the same thing a few years ago. This is back to basics stuff that puts the user in control (not some flakey matrix metering slash TTL-BL metering algorithm). I still use the described settings and techniques exclusively when I have a flash attached. I only scratch the surface here.

The settings that I use are manual mode, spot meter, AE-L set to FV Lock, Flash to TTL. I use the same camera setup for all flash photography – indoors or outdoors.

The first thing that needs to be understood is tone vs EV and that exposure compensation is not about adding or subtracting light, but telling the camera where to place the metered tone in the histogram. Meter from mid grey, dial in 0 compensation to tell the camera to put it in the middle. Meter from black, dial in -2 (varies with camera DR) to tell the camera to put it at the bottom of the histogram. +2 (ish) for white.

Tip: The average of the RGB values for colour is equal to the average of the RGB values of grey when metering. eg RGB 28,128,228 is equal to 128,128,128 in terms of exposure - both are 0EC.

NC still has one of the best tools for examining and learning exposure. It is that small dot that moves up and down the curve on the curves palette. In a correctly exposed image it will do a good job of showing the exposure compensation required if the image was spot metered from the tone under the cursor. X-axis is EC. Have a play with a grey scale, a MacBeth colour checker and some correctly exposed images.

Flash metering with TTL is the same as ambient metering. They both use the same metering system. It is important to understand when using flash that there are two elements in play… flash and ambient.

The technique that I use in moderate lighting conditions:
Set flash EC for the tone that I will be metering from (fair skin is usually in the 0 to +1/3 range).
Set the shutter speed and aperture using exactly the same point. Normally I will use a EC 1/3 to 2/3 below the FEC. This is normally done for separation of subject from the background. This is just subtraction – whatever the FEC, subtract the desired amount of “fill” to get the ambient EC. FEC minus Fill equals Ambient setting.
Focus and set FV Lock on the metered tone.
Compose, focus and shoot.

The technique that I use for high contrast situations (bright background):
Same as above except that shutter and aperture is metered from the background – blue sky should be blue… not white.

Notes: Manual mode is important to stop shutter and aperture from changing.
For white weddings, it is important to check that the brides dress does not fall outside of the cameras DR. Use the spot meter to check it.
Fill of (say) 2 stops or more is not fill – that is straight flash photography… ambient will have little affect.
Use gels on the flash to correct for ambient lighting.
If it is necessary to dial in excessive amounts of flash EC to get the image right, something is wrong. Check your settings, metering and technique.
ISO is set based on ambient conditions… I use fast lenses and ISO values up to 400. That is generally enough for me.
People shots are the easiest to spot meter. Make yourself familiar with EC values for a range of skin tones...

No recipes or chimping here….

Cheers

Kris wrote:With bounce above, youd need to use the catchlight to light up the eye sockets though right otherwise the light above creates a shadow in the eyes...?

That makes sense Kris, though I don't recall ever experiencing a problem with dark eye sockets....

Perhaps if I were shooting very close to the subject, the angle the light would bounce off the ceiling would cause this darkness, but usually I shoot the 18-70 kit lens between 40 - 70mm (at a guess) OR the 70-300 and haven't noticed this as a problem before.

Can't explain it, sorry

Thanks for all these awesome tips...thankyou!

dan