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I've just realised I had a severe "blonde" moment when I posted the earlier test shots.
 I kept looking at them and thinking "Gee, they're a bit noisy". I didn't give it too much thought as I just put it down to the severe crops.. Then whilst reading the "Dumbest Photographer" thread it hit me like a hunk of 4 x 2 between the eyes. I still had the camera set at ISO 640 from last weekend...
I don't suppose it invalidates the results as it was the same for both lenses, but I deserve an uppercut all the same.  If I'm alone in a forest and my wife is not around to hear what I say, am I still wrong ??
Is there any opinion out there on the merits or otherwise of the new Sigma 17-70mm zoom as a walkabout lense. When and if we will ever see it in Australia is one big issue. There have been numerous test reports with positive feedback overall.
Vic Pug
biting my tongue.  g.
Gary Stark Nikon, Canon, Bronica .... stuff The people who want English to be the official language of the United States are uncomfortable with their leaders being fluent in it - US Pres. Bartlet
Sigma lense?
That phrase rocks! TFF (Trevor)
My History Blog: Your Brisbane: Past & Present My Photo Blog: The Foto Fanatic Nikon stuff!
One of the photographers for the local paper has one stuck to the front of his D2x. He swears by it (not at it), reckons it's sharp and for the price he couldn't complain at all.
Last edited by Raskill on Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
2x D700, 2x D2h, lenses, speedlights, studio, pelican cases, tripods, monopods, patridges, pear trees etc etc
http://www.awbphotos.com.au
Which, by coincidence, is a perfectly fitting description of the type of glass one might find in said product. g.
Gary Stark Nikon, Canon, Bronica .... stuff The people who want English to be the official language of the United States are uncomfortable with their leaders being fluent in it - US Pres. Bartlet
Gary, I am confused by your continual condemnation of anything Sigma. Can you please post some examples of pictures taken of the same object at the same time with the various lenses which leads to this conclusion. I would go so far to say that these days you would be hard pressed to tell the difference between a lot of the lenses but If you can and you can demonstrate that to me, then I am prepared to stand and listen. However, it would be more meaningful to see your results that have lead to this conclusion. Maybe my eyes are not as good as seeing contrast or detail but I will happily put my Sigma 80-400 up against the Nikon or Canon of similiar build and I think I can safely say that I have demonstrated many fine examples which have received a lot of support from the learned members of this forum, so as I know you are always up for a challenge and you enjoy lively discussion, how about it? This will be a good exercise for all don't you think - heck I may have to even sell my Sigma at the end of it and buy a Canon 100-400!!!
Canon
Nothing to be confused by, and no, I won't post any images, because Sigma lenses don't go near my cameras. But it's not just because of the quality of their glass, which as we all know, in the hands of a capable photographer (which excludes me, but do look at Chris) can produce quite good results. But their build quality is, IME, not acceptable. It's that simple. And on image quality, I've seen enough very soft images from, for instance, the Bigma to tell me that they're still not in the ballpark when it comes to image quality. As a final observation on that aspect, I think every member here who has initially purchased a Bigma has then gone on to purchase the Nikkor 80-400VR. While I cannot say for sure that it's every member here who owns one, I cannot think of any member who has not done this. There's a very telling message in that action on the part of those members. g.
Gary Stark Nikon, Canon, Bronica .... stuff The people who want English to be the official language of the United States are uncomfortable with their leaders being fluent in it - US Pres. Bartlet
Gary, I would agree about the bigma, any lens that is in the 10x range is going to have a hard task, even the Canon 28 - 300 falls into that cat but there are many sigma lenses that do not and again I refer specifically to the 80-400 mm that I use. Your comments about how they are made..that is fair enough but there are alot of people out there who don't use their gear much (unlike me) who this may not be an issue for..
Canon
You mean as distinct from the plastic rubbish you find in name brand lenses at the same price point?  http://www.moz.net.nz
have bicycle, will go to Critical Mass
So here's the dilemma,
Should I choose a well made but soft nikon 70-300G or the sharper but plasticky Sigma equivalent  __________
Phillip **Nikon D7000**
As a bit of background, I used to shoot a lot of weddings in the days BC. I would use a custom bracket that held two 35mm bodies, either Nikon (FM/FE/FA/F801) or Canon A1, and a custom x-synch cable connected to my 60-CT1, so that both bodies could drive the flash. With this setup running out of film was never an issue, as it was very unlikely that both bodies would expire simultaneously. I typically used something like the Nikkor 43-86 on one and the 35mm on the other, or else the Canon 35-105 with a 35mm when using Canon. I never used Canon + Nikon on this rig, btw, but I did love the A1, as it was such a brilliant camera for its time. But when Nikon brought out the FA, I had one within days of its SOH launch. Ok, that's the background ... As a person who has dropped their cameras on more than one occasion, build quality is a vitally important issue to me. I have Nikons with dents, Nikkors with dents, a Bronny with dents and a fractured prism, and all still are in perfectly fine and serviceable order. Likewise my FTn and 55mm micro, which Leigh dropped while he was learning photography in high school. By way of contrast, and I'm not trying to knock Canon, but in using - and dropping - both of my old A1s, just once, onto carpetI found that the 35-105, power winder, and one of the bodies all needed to go in for immediate repair. The Nikons fared much better under far more severe treatment ... and in all honesty, I look at even modern Sigmas, and I still see very soft construction that simply wouldn't stand up to the sort of mistreatment I know I can meter out. The Bigma ... it's just - to me - a very poorly optimised set of compromises that doesn't seem to do anything particularly well, but that said, Sigma still have other issues with many Nikon bodies, and frequently require chip upgrades and the like in order to get them to work. That tells me that they're not doing their reverse engineering thoroughly,and in reality, it's only amplifying my QC concerns about them. And as a final observation, let's not use this as another excuse to drag this thread off-topic. g.
Gary Stark Nikon, Canon, Bronica .... stuff The people who want English to be the official language of the United States are uncomfortable with their leaders being fluent in it - US Pres. Bartlet
Phillip the 70-300G is legendary for being Nikon's Biggest POS lens. Gary's said that often enough, as have other members, so I think we can all agree Nikon don't get it right all the time, I'd say lets scratch off the Bigma and the 70-300G from the comparison list, as niether a good examples from the repsective lens makers.
Philip, that lens is often viewed as a transition lens to different glass. Buy either s/h from whomever is selling one on the board at the moment
I'll sell you my plasticy and POS 70-300G. I like neither, and that lens never goes near my bag either. I think Leigh uses it occassionally. g.
Gary Stark Nikon, Canon, Bronica .... stuff The people who want English to be the official language of the United States are uncomfortable with their leaders being fluent in it - US Pres. Bartlet
Actually that was a retorical question. I already have the Nikon 70-300G. It is serving a very usefull purpose. I have the zoom extended to similar dimensions as a 80-400VR and it's sitting in the camera bag, that way whenever I'll be able to afford it, I know that I will have space for it in the bag.  __________
Phillip **Nikon D7000**
I suspect the Sigma (EF) 70-300 that I sold a few months ago is available again if anyone wants it. The owner has now bought a 70-200/4. I have a 70-200/2.8IS, but I sometimes miss the lightweight, plastic, inconspicuous Sigma. Not to the point where I actually want it back though. Well, except perhaps towards the top of a long hill when I sometimes find myself having an extra pee stop just so I'm carrying less weight. http://www.moz.net.nz
have bicycle, will go to Critical Mass
Well, yes, of course! It's too bloody light to even be a half-decent paperweight. g.
Gary Stark Nikon, Canon, Bronica .... stuff The people who want English to be the official language of the United States are uncomfortable with their leaders being fluent in it - US Pres. Bartlet
Whoever looks up 'walk around lens' in future is going to get a heck of a read . 
I sold my 24-120 VR a few weeks ago and wish that I hadn't. If you are going walkabout and don't wan't to carry a bag fullof gear then I believe that it is a hard one to beat
Steve
------------------------------------------------------- So many things to do - so little time.
Hey! what's happened? Birddog114
VNAF, My Beloved Country and Airspace
CONGRATULATIONS AND CONDOLENCES
When is your 24-120VR in the market? Or Keep it as a collectible item? Birddog114
VNAF, My Beloved Country and Airspace
losfp If you want to see a long thread look up How many D70 owners play guitar (and walk around with a ____ lens)
In the end we know Nothing, but in the meantime Learn like crazy.
Your Camera Does Matter Nikon D70 D200 D300 PPOK
Birdy why did you stir me up this is your fault
Worlds worst inventions. Glow in the dark combat uniform. Battery powered battery charger. Pay toilet 7reality TV shows The phone auto dialer that makes telemarketing possible Religions Helicopter Ejector Seat lingerie in plus sizes Re-usable toilet paper Nikon 24-120VR Black highlighter Radical Fundamentalist Islam See-through body-bags Nuclear power plant running on Windows XP operating system. Night goggles with U.V. protection War Bush The breakaway condom Ham-flavored massage lotion Radical Fundamentalist Christianity Cat flap for the fridge
I get it now LOZ has a Mac
Birdie, Raskill bought my baby and got a bargain too  I used the funds to help get the 28-70 AF-S. If only I had known how ballistic the market was going to go over the past couple of weeks I would never have sold it.  Steve
------------------------------------------------------- So many things to do - so little time.
Probably a bad idea to buy into this, um, spirited discussion, but I'm quite happy with my 18-200VR 'toy' lens. Took it and the 80-400VR on a trip to Tassie a few weeks back, and never took the 80-400 out of the bag. Is that a good enough definition of a walk around lens?
Dopeler Effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly.
No Expert
I am by far any expert, but I have the 24- 120 mm VR and I love it, I have used to take nice shots of my grandaughter, action shots at the skateboard park, horses at the X country event,, and last week at the car festival at caboolture,, so far I do love it, on the other hand my 70 - 300 , i get to many blurred shots at 300,, with NO VR ,,, wish I had got the 18- 200 VR but they didnt have that in stock,,
Just my 2 bobs worth,, Suzanne Nikon D200, 24-120mm VR, 70-300 ED, SB800 flash, Manfrotto tripod,
Well, ah reckon the 18-200 VR, see my other post in equipment... just got this for a trip through europe... so I hopefully will have a strong opinion by the time I get back... but I love having the long zoom for sneaky portraits and I love having the wide-ish angle for a landscape or ... whatever.
It's mid-priced according to the other posts around here and I think the quality is acceptable - I understand that the sharpest is at 24mm f9-f11 or so and that I will get varying results depending on where else I frame the lens, I'm happy to work with that for the convenience - one lens for the whole of Europe (might still take some others though...) D3 | 18-200VR | 50:1.4 | 28:2.8 | 35-70 2.8 | 12-24 f4
picasaweb.google.com/JustinPhotoGallery "We don't know and we don't care"
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