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Just for the Mac nuts

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/the-apple-iphone/

Chris,

I was reading about it earlier this morning, looks like a great device if it lives up to the hype. I've been resisting going for an all-in-one device but this looks very promising, not to mention that it runs OS X

Not sure when we will get it over in Oz but I'm in no rush, I don't need to be an early adopter.

Cheers,

André

Don't Quote me but i think 2008 is when Australia can expect to see the iPhone.
the AppleTV looks awesome to me. i'm sick of connecting my powerbook to the tv via RCAs and having cables everywhere.
the part i dont like is the fact that as far as i can see it will only work with things in iTunes.
unless they change that, it wont be very helpful to me
the iPhone looks ok.
I'm not sure i like the size, and lack of 3G might be a downer (atm)
will keep a close watch on these 2 items though

Laurie wrote:Don't Quote me but i think 2008 is when Australia can expect to see the iPhone.

Probably right, found that it won't be till June in USA and late 2007 in Europe, 2008 sounds about right for Australia

A shame it'll probably be as well made as the iPods...

I understand the point of multi-touch and if the LCD screen isn't the usual Apple small-scale piece of crap screen that it normally is, it might just work... but why the accelerometer? I can't quite work out why haivng one in the device is all that beneficial.

Seems more like Stubbsy's TV remote control in a smaller scale with phone functionality.

Nnnnsic wrote:... but why the accelerometer? I can't quite work out why haivng one in the device is all that beneficial.

Im wondering this as well, maybe you can use the phone to control something else... like Wii type controller??

Or some stupidity like a 'pedometer', most possibly...

The accelerometer senses as you flip the device from portrait to landscape. So as you turn the phone, it detects this and flips the display. Good for photos, movies, etc. Flip it back to portrait, comes back to that format, automatically, you don't need to hit any button to rotate.

Cheers,

André

radar wrote:The accelerometer senses as you flip the device from portrait to landscape. So as you turn the phone, it detects this and flips the display. Good for photos, movies, etc. Flip it back to portrait, comes back to that format, automatically, you don't need to hit any button to rotate.

Cheers,

André

So thats the basic position sensor in all the DSLRs and not a hi-tech accelerometer for funny functions...

I was gonna say... the use of the word "accelerometer" suggests to me they're more trying to impress the crowd by use of something so simple and essentially jumping on the Wii-wagon.

Nah, just watch the keynote and be impressed

Too bad it'll be a long time till it arrives on our shores. By that time probably *with* 3G...

Cheers
Steffen.

You do realise that being created by Apple and marketed as an i-device, it'll have worse build quality than any other phone on the market with a battery for a 800 buck device that can't be changed and will cost 750 bucks to replace?

Nnnnsic wrote:You do realise that being created by Apple and marketed as an i-device, it'll have worse build quality than any other phone on the market with a battery for a 800 buck device that can't be changed and will cost 750 bucks to replace?

Well, let's not get ahead of ourselves, but wait and see.

However, from past experience I have to say that all of my iPods were better built than all of my mobile phones (I only sampled Nokia and Sony-Ericsson so far). Also, none of my mobile phones has ever outlived it's original battery. I did however replace the non-replaceable battery in one iPod with a cheap after-market double-capacity one.

Cheers
Steffen.

radar wrote:The accelerometer senses as you flip the device from portrait to landscape.

So it's really just a couple of $0.15 mercury switches named by a dickhead with a degree in marketingspeak.

gstark wrote:So it's really just a couple of $0.15 mercury switches named by a dickhead with a degree in marketingspeak.

There's one in every crowd

The device does look very nice looking at it via the keynote. In a way, it is good that we won't get it here till 2008. Hopefully by then they'll have ironed out some of the initial problems with the device.

If they do bring it out without the ability to replace/swap the battery, that would be a big mistake, imho.

I have looked at a number of the smartphones and I always come back feeling that they are too big, don't like the keyboard, .... Size wise, the new iphone is very nice. It's UI also looks very nice.

time will tell,

cheers,

André

I have just finished reading some more reports on the new device and one thing that stands out is the accelerometer is not just a mercury switch. Here is a quote "Accelerometer (detects how you're holding it and adjusts screen)". So it's more than just the hardware - it's the software that interprets what the hardware senses.

There is an accelerometer patent. Here are some details from Mac Rumours on the patent

The patent application includes diagrams of what appears to be a tablet form-factor screen with use of an accelerometer. Possible uses include:

- detecting movement of a portable device as a way to trigger whether a page of document or image may be displayed
- gaming application to detect a scene change
- in navigation application to navigate a large object or document that can not be displayed entirely at once
- determine whether a device is moving
- movement as password authentication
- and more...

Apple presently uses accelerometers in their PowerBook/MacBook line of computers described as "Sudden Motion Sensor" technology to park the heads of the hard drive if the laptop falls.

and some more insight into the patent HERE

My view is that Apple is, and always has been, a software company that sells its hardware by making brilliant software. From what I read if this is anywhere near as good it's going to impact the marketplace the same way the iPod did.

More reading (a number of articles) HERE

Negativity Alert

Here's my prediction for 2007-2008.

Apple and Sony merge. Making one company twice the size and twice as bad as they are individually making products that look good but suffer through poor engineering but succeed through gullible targeted marketing.

'Yeah, but it looks good,' will be the new catchcry/motto for the new Apple/Sony/Ericsson giant, which may be renamed 'iTRI.'

Apple computers should not be lumped with iPods et al. I have used their computers since 1985 - 21 years and in all that time I only ever had one H/D fail.

It’s more likely that Sony will purchase Nikon

There is no way Apple are going to use mercury switches to do this, There are many different ways to make an accelerometer! Some accelerometers use the piezoelectric effect - they contain microscopic crystal structures that get stressed by accelerative forces, which causes a voltage to be generated. Another way to do it is by sensing changes in capacitance. If you have two microstructures next to each other, they have a certain capacitance between them. If an accelerative force moves one of the structures, then the capacitance will change. Add some circuitry to convert from capacitance to voltage, and you will get an accelerometer. They will select one of these methods and it will work.

sirhc55 wrote:It’s more likely that Sony will purchase Nikon

Have you heard the same whispers that we've been hearing?

I just think it is funny how everyone has such a strong opinion on Apple. Love or hate.

Heath Bennett wrote:I just think it is funny how everyone has such a strong opinion on Apple. Love or hate.

Apple - love. Windows - hate. The end.

sirhc55 wrote:It’s more likely that Sony will purchase Nikon

mmmmm....according to recent posts here, Nikon's quality control is nose diving - maybe getting down to Sony's level?

Max - maybe Sony secretly own Nikon already

If Sony buys Nikon I will jump ship or give up photography.

Sony buying Nikon would be horrible indeed. Kind of like how Ford owns Range Rover (LR) and Aston Martin.

But back to topic. I would kill for that iphone.

sirhc55 wrote:Max - maybe Sony secretly own Nikon already

Maybe. Maybe they're all owned by KAOS, now that Don Adams is no longer with us?

Heath Bennett wrote:I just think it is funny how everyone has such a strong opinion on Apple. Love or hate.

Not really. I think Apple make some quality products.

Their i-devices aren't part of them.

Hell, I don't even think their operating system is all that impressive. Too small amount a control.

Nnnnsic wrote:Not really. I think Apple make some quality products.

Too late for back-pedalling, Leigh. You've outed yourself as an Apple hater loud and clear...



Cheers
Steffen.

Heath Bennett wrote:Sony buying Nikon would be horrible indeed. Kind of like how Ford owns Range Rover (LR) and Aston Martin.

I thought Rover was owned by BMW?

Cheers
Steffen.

Steffen wrote:Too late for back-pedalling, Leigh. You've outed yourself as an Apple hater loud and clear...

Pfffttt...

Ipod's are incredibly badly made. Itunes isn't much better. Imac's weren't incredibly well made or all that good computers... more like bastardised systems really made for a budget but not worth the cash.

The Macbooks don't look that bad, and the Titanium Powerbooks were really decent.

And the name "iPhone" isn't even owned by Apple.

Yeah, it's off to a real great start...

Killakoala wrote:If Sony buys Nikon I will jump ship or give up photography.

yeah, i'll be dumping the nikon on ebay if that happens as well.

and i'm making sure i'll be contract free so i can jump on the iphone bandwagon once it arrives.

Steffen wrote:

Heath Bennett wrote:Sony buying Nikon would be horrible indeed. Kind of like how Ford owns Range Rover (LR) and Aston Martin.

I thought Rover was owned by BMW?

Cheers
Steffen.

Was previously, before Ford.

Leigh while you have admitted to not mind/like some Apple products, I would have incorrectly assumed previously that you hated everything about the things. Perhaps its just your netspeak "tone", or the way I choose to "hear" it.

The g4 titanium powerbooks are awesome. We grabed one nearly three and a half years back and it still looks like the current model, still holds charge, and still works fast despite being heavily used and occassionally a little abused.

Heath Bennett wrote:Leigh while you have admitted to not mind/like some Apple products, I would have incorrectly assumed previously that you hated everything about the things.

While I cannot speak for Leigh, I can tell you that we've had Apple computers in this household for something like 8 or 9 years. We both respect certain aspects of their systems, but I personally disrespect a lot of their marketing and (mis)managment techniques.

Non-replaceable batteries in a consumer device is inexcusable, IMHO, and Apple aren't the only offenders here: I've had serious discussions (!) with senior people at Palm over this same issue.

Their pitiful attempts to control the type of media that you may play on a device is, too, way to controlling a ploy for me. I abhor many aspects of digital control over media, and much of it is just corporate greed, trying to syphon more money into the corporate pockets.

I'm all for the artisits getting reasonable compensation for their efforts, but the current official methods do little to satisfy that goal.

Zune too Gary

I wouldn't defend Zune either, Chris.

A wasted idea, especially with wireless that doesn't do a whole lot.

Nor would I defend Sony who got really antsy with their ATRAC3 and ATRAC3 Plus, or who added DRM to every incarnation of their Hi-MD technology and who then bastardised it for use as UMD in a device that was firmware controlled for "your" protection.

Now even Creative's devices -- which at the very least play more than just iPod's coveted MP4 codec with a wrapped file AAC -- are losing the replacable battery and ease of mp3 & file replacement for their own in-house solution to transfer music across... and guess what? It is one of the worst pieces of programming on the bad planet.

None of the major companies who make these players are impressing me at the moment, but it is Apple who people still buy even though the flaws aren't corrected. They're still overpriced, still lacking in features compared to the market, still supporting less filetypes and licenses, amd still breaking faster than anything else.

But people pay for the design.

And shit, hey if that's what sells, it sells.

I am not a fan of Apple's "hey, let's use sweet design but give them a load of crap" policy of making products. To me, it's similar to buying a camera targetted at a semi-pro and finding it collapses on the first drop, similar to say, oh a 5D.

The Titaniums are great laptops, I have no qualms there. I loved the smurftowers, the graphite towers, and I don't have a problem with the nice slick towers that they produce.

But that's just it with Apple. They're like Canon, but with smarter designers. They build you something good... only if you're willing to pay for it.

gstark wrote:Non-replaceable batteries in a consumer device is inexcusable, IMHO, and Apple aren't the only offenders here: I've had serious discussions (!) with senior people at Palm over this same issue.

For anyone who finds it to be enough of an issue, there are any number of external battery packs or car chargers for things like iPods or Palm devices. Replacing internal batteries is also possible, although not something the casual user would attempt. Unless battery life is pitifully bad, a nonreplaceable battery in a small consumer electronic device isn't a dealbreaker for me.

Their pitiful attempts to control the type of media that you may play on a device is, too, way to controlling a ploy for me.

Well, how many types of media should they be expected to support? Sure, Apple only sells DRM music in iTunes, so I simply shop elsewhere (although I use iTunes as a conduit for the free podcasts that make up a good half of my listening). My collection of MP3s, audiobooks and podcasts works fine on the iPod.

--Chuan

hangdog wrote:

gstark wrote:Non-replaceable batteries in a consumer device is inexcusable, IMHO, and Apple aren't the only offenders here: I've had serious discussions (!) with senior people at Palm over this same issue.

For anyone who finds it to be enough of an issue, there are any number of external battery packs or car chargers for things like iPods or Palm devices. Replacing internal batteries is also possible, although not something the casual user would attempt. Unless battery life is pitifully bad, a nonreplaceable battery in a small consumer electronic device isn't a dealbreaker for me.

I think it's an example of a combination of corporate greed and piss-poor design. Not to mention total loathing and disrespect for their customer.

Sorry, but when a battery in my Palm died prematurely, there was no question that it was covered under warranty, but it was going to take up to three weeks to be rectified, because Palm Oz handles all of this sort of stuff through Singapore, and you need to send your stuff to them and let them process it, in due course, and then send you a replacement.

At least Palm US has an advanced replacement scheme, whereby they send you the replacement unit with a reply paid box: you get the replacement sent to you, you set it up, and when you're happy, you drop the dead unit into the reply paid box and drop inti a UPS drop box.

Takes but a day or so, and is how, if they want to pull this sort of BS on their customer, this sort of thing needs to be handled.

Their pitiful attempts to control the type of media that you may play on a device is, too, way to controlling a ploy for me.

Well, how many types of media should they be expected to support?

That's a good question.

How many new tyoes have they created?

The market is basically happy witrh just a couple, but the corporates, in their greed, have created a whole raft of others.

Consider, for instance, region control on a DVD, Please explain to me the point of that. What, exactly, does it achieve?

gstark wrote:I think it's an example of a combination of corporate greed and piss-poor design. Not to mention total loathing and disrespect for their customer.

Or it could just mean that doing so makes it easier or cheaper to get the skinnier/lighter form factor and lower price point that consumers will buy.

I replaced my old Handspring Visor Platinum (2 x AAA batteries) with a Visor Prism (battery sealed inside) when the Platinum started acting up after 2+ years of heavy work usage. I was uneasy about the sealed battery, but really, all I had to do was charge it every few days.

Before the Prism could expire, my brother gave me his worn-out Sony Clie NR70V with its "nonreplaceable" and very dead battery. For about 20 bucks, I picked up another battery on eBay, followed the instructions and it's now going strong (although I have an issue with those inconveniently nonreplaceable screens!).

Sorry, but when a battery in my Palm died prematurely, there was no question that it was covered under warranty, but it was going to take up to three weeks to be rectified, because Palm Oz handles all of this sort of stuff through Singapore, and you need to send your stuff to them and let them process it, in due course, and then send you a replacement.

I don't defend their painfully slow warranty process, but given the number of critical, nonreplaceable components that can and do fail in modern electronic gadgets, I wouldn't single out batteries in iPods or similar-sized gadgets.

How many new tyoes have they created?

None that I use.

The market is basically happy witrh just a couple, but the corporates, in their greed, have created a whole raft of others.

That's the thing, though -- I'm not being forced to abandon good ol' MP3 in order to use an iPod. And if I don't like iTunes file formats and/or DRM, I don't buy from iTunes (and that's ignoring the fact that DRM can be removed with 3rd-party software).

Consider, for instance, region control on a DVD, Please explain to me the point of that. What, exactly, does it achieve?

Well, it means that I have a multi-region DVD player as well as a bunch of DVDs of doubtful provenance.

But that ain't Apple's fault.

--Chuan

Here is something interesting on the iPhone

Perhaps we should all just give up on major manufacturers having any other motive other than profit.

blinkblink wrote:Here is something interesting on the iPhone

gstark wrote:I think it's an example of a combination of corporate greed and piss-poor design. Not to mention total loathing and disrespect for their customer.

Re corporate greed and disrespect for the customer, if you further develop this thought you're well on the way to reinvent Marx' "Critique of Political Economy", which described these categories and their relationships in great detail Almost 150 years ago

However, when you call the iPod an example of piss-poor design then you're losing me. The built-in battery is a design decision not taken to annoy anyone but to keep the device simpler, uncluttered and cheaper. Can you imagine an iPod with a lid and screw on the back?

Sorry, but when a battery in my Palm died prematurely, there was no question that it was covered under warranty, but it was going to take up to three weeks to be rectified, because Palm Oz handles all of this sort of stuff through Singapore, and you need to send your stuff to them and let them process it, in due course, and then send you a replacement.

In AU you can get your iPod battery changed at any Apple Centre. If you don't dare to do it yourself (and save a bundle in the process), that is.

The market is basically happy witrh just a couple, but the corporates, in their greed, have created a whole raft of others.

Corporations are greedy, and have to be. Otherwise they couldn't function. Creating proprietary media formats is an instrument of market control, which in turn is an instrument of corporate greed. However, Apple aren't a prime exponent in this area. In fact, the only proprietary format still in use on iPods is Apple Lossless. MP3 (not a default) is royalty-ware. The rest are public standards. For video Apple recently moved away from their proprietary quicktime codecs and towards H.264.

Consider, for instance, region control on a DVD, Please explain to me the point of that. What, exactly, does it achieve?

More money for the studios. Every consumer hates it. But how does this argument serve in slamming the iPod?

Apple has no natural interest in DRM, they are not a content owner. However, in order to get licensed to sell content they have to appease RIAA and MPAA, as well as local distribution rackets, and demonstrate the use of a reasonably strong DRM scheme. It would help Apple sell a lot more iPods if iTMS content could be played on as many devices as one wished (rather than just 5). But they're not allowed to allow that. Negotiating those terms is a tedious excercise and has to be done in each individual country where they want to open their music store. That's why it takes a while for new features (such as buying movies) to make it into international music stores. All Apple is interested in is a seemless, end-to-end, cool and easy to use entertainment system, in which they get to sell plenty of hardware (Macs, iPods etc).

Unlike Sony and Microsoft that are both content owners but are too dumb to conceive something people would actually like to use, Apple is actually getting there. The latest installment (Apple TV) seems like the missing link...

Cheers
Steffen.

sirhc55 wrote:

blinkblink wrote:Here is something interesting on the iPhone

blinkblink wrote:Here is something interesting on the iPhone

Thanks a lot! Just printed it for my cubicle at work...

Cheers
Steffen.

Apple hasn't seem to have gotten over it's control issues...

I fully expect that a lot of people will buy "iphones" (if Cisco lets them use that name) and will be disappointed that they're fragile, scratch easily, have batteries which last half the time they should and have features which are surpassed in other phones which have been out for longer.

whiz wrote:I fully expect that a lot of people will buy "iphones" (if Cisco lets them use that name) and will be disappointed that they're fragile, scratch easily, have batteries which last half the time they should and have features which are surpassed in other phones which have been out for longer.

And you're just mentioning the good points.