junda wrote:Threadstarter asked if the set of lights is sufficient to shoot at his place or perhaps in a local school.
Correct.
Perhaps in a local school. That's a possibility. Not a definite. A Maybe. It does NOT mean definitely, and it does not necessarily mean large groups.
It might. Or it might not.
He also says in that same post that he is willing to start cheap, and pay again later.
He also says in that post that he knows little about lighting.
So, let's just work within those parameters, but let's also think about what we're saying, and the longer term consequences of what we're recommending.
If you want to minimise shadows especially for a session in school. A more powerful set of light is required in the scenario shooting for a club or class size.
Correct, but this is both an unlikely scenario given what Bob has said in his OP.
By using 160w fitted with light
modifier means you have to bring the set of light close to your subjects to obtain the desire depth of field but it has ugly shadows everywhere.
With a two light set and a large group, you are likely to get ugly shadows regardless of the power of the lights, unless you know how and where to set the lights. But the room would have a part to play here too. Is the room large or small? How high is the ceiling? And what is the colour of the ceiling? What about the walls? What
modifiers and reflectors do you have available?
But again, this is unlikely to be the primary scenario in Bob's case.
Same scenario for shooting at home. With a lightmodifier on, you approximately lose around 1-2stops depending on what you use. Main concern is shadows and lack of a main light. I feel that Bob will almost immediately find this set of light very limited and hence I do not wish him to make a bad decision.
I certainly don't want him to make a bad decision either. Yes, some light will be lost with the use of
modifiers, but for small group portraiture, these kits are perfect. Again, when we use them, in a large room, and for groups of up to three people, we have use them at about 50% power. With
modifiers. Brollies. Softboxes. f/8. f/11. Many times. 50% power setting.
What am I missing?
Please tell me what I am doing wrong, because what I'm doing seems to be working.
Also, for shooting large groups, what is a "main light"? In large groups, I would suggest that this is not really a valid concept. Rather, you would choose to try to light the whole group evenly. In small group portraiture, fair enough, but again, you no longer have the issues that you have enumerated, so it's no big deal.
Base on your view on SB800, I am quite certain you are not an avid strobist as you say an onboard flash is sufficient.
Please tell me exactly what an "avid strobist" might be? I have never heard this term before, so please .... illuminate me.
I recommend SB800 as you can bring it around and also ensure light at the given condition is not so flat.
Bring it around? Is it unconcious?
What exactly do you mean?
If you mean you can locate it where you need it, then yes, but you can do this with any number of different flashheads. I don't see your point. That is not a property that the SB800 holds exclusively. There are small Sunpacks that are designed especially to be used as slaves, and will do a similar job, for a fraction of the cost of an SB800.
There are other possibilities as you can definitely mount it on a tripod and use it like a studio light.
Quite correct.
A couple of points here, however. First of all, you were extolling the virtues of just how portable the SB800 was. Now you're carrying around tripods and/or lightstands onto which you're gong to mount the SB800s. What happened to your portability?
Poof! It's gone.
And how much will those tripods/lightstands cost? Plus adaptors? Brackets? And light
modifiers, like brollies and softboxes? In these small kits, you get all of these included in the basic cost, and again, for less than the cost of your first SB800, and for about the same cost as just buying those stands etc at your local camera store.
You're not yet showing me any advantages to using the SB800, but let's continue ....
When I am travelling, this is like the perfect companion as it almost feels like bringing your studio out there. Current gantz lighting set does not has a specification a lot better than SB800 and it's definitely not portable.
Traveling? Bob has already indicated very limited traveling. At home, and possibly his local school, remember? That's not a whole lot of travel, in my book.
But if you look at the Glanz kit (in the photo), or you look at the Golden Eagle kit, you might care to notice that they each come with a carry bag, into which you may put the stands,
modifiers, heads, cables, so that you may conveniently carry them around from here to there.
What carry bag, for the stands,
modifiers, etc, does the SB800 come with? Oh yes, I remember: none!
So you have a gaggle of tripods, light stands, and
modifiers falling around inside your car's boot. A cable can easily fall between crevices within your car's boot. Ask me how I know.
Sounds pretty convenient, doesn't it?. All this convenience costs more too, remember. Yep, this sure sounds like a solid decision to me.
if bob just wants to learn about lighting set up, he can consider a portable flash instead not necessary sb800, metz,or sunpak is good enough also.I am very sure he will learn a lot using portable flash, after that he can reconsider if he trully needs a more expensive lighting system. Perhaps you might also want to get a few of those to learn since you mention it is a complicated system.
The only thing that I have said is complicated is the use of the SB800. Nikon's CLS is good, but overly complex. And it requires the use of several SB800s. Lighting is basically pretty simple, but CLS makes it seem otherwise.
It's way cheaper, way easier, way quicker, to just set up a few lights, shoot, chimp, adjust power and lighting ratios, shoot, chimp, re-adjust power and lighting ratios, shoot, and chimp.
Metz is great, and I have mentioned Sunpack already too, but if you're going down that path, you will also (still) be needing
modifiers and stands.
Now: here's the math test for you. Let's see if you pass.
Solution A: A basic two light kit with stands,
modifiers, heads and triggers costs just a couple of hundred. Set it up, and you're ready to go.
Solution B: A couple of stands, on their own, each cost about $70. Brollies, about $35. Each. Soft boxes, a little more. Each. Adapters, so you can fix a flash unit to the light stand, around 30. Each. You need to buy at least two of each of these. If you like, replace the light stands with tripods. No major difference in cost if you're going for a cheap tripod, but significant loss of functionality: less height available, bigger, heavier.
And you've still not yet got any light sources.
If you add in the SB800s, don't forget to add in the extra time to learn to read the manual, and then to find someone to tell you how to use the bloody things, because the manual is as useful as a bicycle is to a fish.
And the cost of batteries: two sets of five, and a decent charger.
Which is the least expensive solution?
Don't get me wrong: if you're shooting outdoors, where there's no available power source, then something like an SB800 or a pocketful of Sunpacks will be a very useful tool.
But for home use, for learning something about lighting, for learning how to set up basic multi-light scenarios, for shooting people from individuals up to groups of maybe five people, there is little that is better value, easier to set up and use, than one of these small kits with heads in the range of 120ws to 200ws. They are designed for exactly these situations, and they are perfect for them, and they are exceptional value too.
And in exactly the same scenario, a beginner will be screwed in trying to use an SB800 because it's just too complex in its usage.
And all the parts - the stands, the adapters, the triggers, the cables etc - that you get in these kits are able to be used with other situations as well: do you think that your Metz, Sunpack, or SB800 cares if it's sitting on top of a Manfrotto or a GE stand? Of course it doesn't!
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:11 pm
with Gary on this one. The cheap Glanz or Golden Eagle kits are much better value than a few SB-800/600s and stands.
. 
Actually my Canon would have been a good substitute for the term in question 
