DSLRUsers.com

We are looking at getting a good little camera that, primarily, Alicia can use to take decent photos of the boys without the weight and heft of the DSLR + lens.

Thus far, I have thought of:

1. Oly Pen (E-P1) - detachable lens camera, c$1300-1700 depending on lenses included. No internal flash, no optical viewfinder.
2. Nikon P6000 - P&S at about $500, stupid Windows RAW format.
3. canon G10 - P&S, RAW, hotshoe, viewfinder, internal flash, c$600.

So, I reckon it is between the Oly and number 3. The Oly has a larger sensor size which I believe should aid in reducing noise. ISO goes up to 6400 (not sure what the quality would be like at that level).

Any views? Cost vs features and all that. For the sake of opinion, assume we can afford either. (I appreciate the Oly hasn't been available for long).

none of the above. the lx3 was my choice cos its actually compact and is a true, take anywhere, chuck it in your bag/pocket camera.

Another vote for the LX3. Takes reasonably good snaps and quite good video (1280*800 I think). Priceless when it comes to baby footage.

Thanks guys - another one to consider. Does it shoot in RAW?

Yep the LX3 shoots RAW...I think Serenj mentioned that the jpg processing removes a fair whack of distortion that you would have to get the included software to fix if you shot RAW....just a faint memory though.

it does shoot in raw but i never use it. partly cos the lumix software is terrible, but mostly cos its "point and shoot" for me really. i thought i'd use raw more than what i have done.

aim54x wrote:Serenj mentioned that the jpg processing removes a fair whack of distortion

Cameron this is correct. This is the primary reason that adobe haven't been given any access to the raw format for the LX3. The lens although very bright and wide, causes ALOT of distortion so requires adjustment incamera.

Very nice camera though. Very usable and pocketable [which I believe is an important criteria for Patrick]

I have the G10 and really think it is a great little camera. My wife uses it as a true P&S, all auto settings and you can get some pretty nice jpg's. I have used it a number of times in RAW mode and you get some great files, especially if you keep the ISO 400 or lower.

The Oly looks interesting but wasn't available when I got the G10 but still probably wouldn't have bought it as it was out of my price range.

Another advantage, for me, was that you can get an underwater housing for the G10, which I just received from B&H. Taking it on a kayak trip later on this year. I got a lensmate mount for the camera as well, that way I can put a CPL on it as well.

cheers,

André

Patrick you gotta relax about the canon! They do make pretty good P&S cameras...

lol agreed surenj. the lx-3 was my first non-canon P&S but i must say it was difficult for me to NOT buy a canon i was just so used to them producing the best compacts around. in the end it was the size of the lx-3 vs the g10 that turned me cos IQ is pretty similar, maybe a tad better with the G10. its just too damn big though for a chuckaround P&S imo.

surenj wrote:Patrick you gotta relax about the canon! They do make pretty good P&S cameras...

I hear they make decent photocopiers. I have nothing against Canons, I just like stirring the pot.

Reschsmooth wrote:

surenj wrote:Patrick you gotta relax about the canon! They do make pretty good P&S cameras...

I hear they make decent photocopiers. I have nothing against Canons, I just like stirring the pot.

they do make decent photocopiers...I have always been a bit dissappointed in their bottom end compacts but their mid to top end stuff is always very nicely done...but I prefer my Fuji (and Fuji-Xerox)...

My vote will go for a Oly Pen.

It's faster (autofocus) than any of the other cameras listed including the LX3. Though not as fast as the Panasonic G1. I just got a Panasonic G1 twin lens kit! Love the compact DSLR size, takes great pics!

The EP1 has great video recording abilities as well! Its relatively fast, yet its small enough to be put inside a woman's handbag.

I'm going to be buying the EP1 for my wife, her bday is coming up and she wanted something compact yet fast with long battery life! I couldn't think of anything that fits that description until I played with the EP1 over the PMA weekend.

I had a CANON G10 earlier this year and sold it. Great camera, with a wonderful exposure comp dial on the top, built like a tank with excellent image quality, but it was just too big for a pocket, which for me anyway defeats the purpose of a P&S.

I would buy an LX3 but they're too expensive ATM.

My two bob's worth.

tntman wrote:small enough to be put inside a woman's handbag

A 1D or a D3x could fit in to a woman's handbag!

The question is whether one can put it in a pocket. [and which pocket ]

I definitely agree about the autofocus on the pen. Very fast!

ozimax wrote:LX3 but they're too expensive ATM.

I got an LX3 for $650 few months ago. I suppose it's pricey for a compact but then, it may be one of the cheaper ones from this lot.

i'm also an ex G10 owner and was extremely happy for this great little prosumer's performance. However, like other said, i think the size would be an issue if you want a true pocket size P&S camera.

Thanks for the comments, everyone. Size wise - it doesn't necessarily need to fit in a pocket. A handbag is sufficient. The main issue was the heft of the DSLR and lens, and therefore looking for an alternative.

pat if you are going to consider an lx3 you can borrow mine for a few days to try it out if you like.

You may want to have a look at this rumour!!

Have you considered the ricoh-cx1?

http://www.cnet.com.au/ricoh-cx1-339295138.htm

I have had a couple of offers to borrow the lx3 - thanks a bunch, and I may take one of you up on the favour.

I didn't mention it at the outset, but the HD video is also quite appealing.

The lx3 looks interesting, if nothing else, because of the quality and fast lens. The Oly has the advantage of a wider lens selection. For a true P&S this may be a bad thing, but, I believe my wife is happy to have some interchangable componentry but in a compact body.

Reschsmooth wrote:I believe my wife is happy to have some interchangable componentry but in a compact body.

You could always treat her to a nice M8!!

zafra52 wrote:Have you considered the ricoh-cx1?

It's only $14000. You could buy a D3x or two 1Ds3's for that sort of money. Each to their own I suppose.

muzz wrote:

Reschsmooth wrote:I believe my wife is happy to have some interchangable componentry but in a compact body.

You could always treat her to a nice M8!!

If I was to get a Leica, I would get an M4 or some such.

Here is a comparison between the E-P1, G10 & LX3 for those who may be interested.

http://www.radiantlite.com/2009/06/olympus-e-p1-vs-panasonic-lx3-vs-canon.html

From what I have heard, the slow auto-focus of the Olympus seems a deal breaker for me.

Reschsmooth wrote:Here is a comparison between the E-P1, G10 & LX3 for those who may be interested.

I'm having trouble comprehending what was written in that article, Patrick. The article's author is clearly not someone for whom English is their native language. While I generally respect and acknowledge that, I think when someone is writing a product review, skills in that language chosen by the author for his article should be a given. That's not the case here.

Further, I'm not convinced that whomever wrote this article has even had a hands-on play with one. Consider this statement ...

Beginner guide to digital photography wrote:Because EP-1 does not have AF-Assist lamp, the focusing in low light condition could be awful.

"could be awful" ? Doesn't the author know? Surely, if they've handled the unit, they would know the answer to this question.

And FWIW, there are many situations when the use of an AF assist light is not welcome. It's one of the first things I disable on a camera, and so this point, for me, is moot. I suspect that many others might do likewise.

From what I have heard, the slow auto-focus of the Olympus seems a deal breaker for me.

I haven't yet seen any major issues with the focus speed of the E-P1, and overall, I am somewhat impressed with the camera.

Thus far, I have just two serious issues with this camera.

I don't like the lack of an optical viewfinder, and on Sunday afternoon, in the harsh glare of sunlight, we found the camera difficult to focus. This was especially so when I was using the Carl Zeiss 70-210 OM mount lens on the Oly, where manual focus was the order of the day.

And I don't like the fact that it doesn't have a built in flash of some kind. Neither does the D3, FWIW, but at least the D3 has a pc sync socket.

Neither of these issues come as a surprise to me. Given the design of the camera, these factors are clearly evident from well before you even pick up the camera, and you need to consider the camera with these issues well to the fore in your thinking. To do otherwise would be akin to moving next to the airport and then complaining that the planes make too much noise.

Given the three cameras offered in that ... overview (I'd hardly call it a review) ... I certainly would readily choose the various advantages that the Oly offers over either of the alternatives.

+1 for the G10, a friend of mine owns one I've used it a quite times.

It has some great features like the hot shoe and raw, i was very close to buying one awhile back as a carry in your pocket camera,

It has some useful Dslr features with out the size, kinda a problem carrying a Dslr+Lens+Accessories in your pocket!

Ben.bb wrote:It has some useful Dslr features with out the size,

And without the larger sensor.

The Oly has the larger sensor, but not the larger size.

kinda a problem carrying a Dslr+Lens+Accessories in your pocket!

Yep, but the Oly is not a DSLR. With just the 17mm pancake it's somewhat pocketable.

There's a fortune to made to the first manufacturer to produce a quality, range finder type P&S with a good quality optical viewfinder and a low noise sensor. Surely to Christ it can't be that hard? And nooo......Leica is over priced and not a contender.

Matt. K wrote:Leica is over priced and not a contender.

As is the Ricoh.

The Oly comes close, but the absence of the optical viewfinder loses it some brownie points.

I have the G10 as my 'handbag' camera, it is similar to to the dlsr in performance and optical quality and my 9 yr old can point and shoot and get an exceptionally shot - but I recommend you get her to 'handle' it as it is quite largish for a take everywhere camera and if it's not comfortable and she doesn't like it then it simply won't get used.

I encouraged my friend to get one as a stepping stone to a dslr and she loves it as she is learning about AV and TV mode and can make changes without the size or expense of the dslr3.

If she is only looking at great snapshots and planning on printing A4 or smaller then there are some great small compacts around with easy to use auto functions that while they wouldn't satisfy a Dslr user will work a treat on snapshots and macro.

My biggest tip - get something she can handle and likes as it will get used often - may sound silly but what feels good in your hand may not in hers
DebT

While you are at it...

I'd pick the Pen at the moment, but if you wait another week or two, another camera is about to hit the street that may suit better: The Panasonic GF1.

Pros:
About the same size and weight as the Oly
20mm 1.7 lens appears to be better than the Oly 17mm 2.8 (DPReview has a lens test)
Higher res LCD
4/3 sensor
Pop-up flash
Add-on EVF if you want it (expensive though)

Cons:
No in-body IS

There is also a rumor that Oly is going to announce an EP-2 at the end of October. Who knows what that is about...

Michael

photohiker wrote:While you are at it...

I'd pick the Pen at the moment, but if you wait another week or two, another camera is about to hit the street that may suit better: The Panasonic GF1.
.....
There is also a rumor that Oly is going to announce an EP-2 at the end of October. Who knows what that is about...

The GF-1 really has my eye (but I am not in the market) but there has been rumors of both a higher end and a lower end Oly EP for a little while as well.

Michael,

I'm curious,

Given that both cameras are Micro four thirds, why is that a pro feature for the Panasonic, bu not for the Pen?

photohiker wrote:Pros:
...

4/3 sensor

There is an optical clip-on viewfinder for the 17mm lens on the Olympus, btw.

gstark wrote:Michael,

I'm curious,

Given that both cameras are Micro four thirds, why is that a pro feature for the Panasonic, bu not for the Pen?

There is an optical clip-on viewfinder for the 17mm lens on the Olympus, btw.

Quite so (for both points).

Also note that the optical viewfinder suits just one lens, whereas the EVF would suit any lens mounted on the camera.

I forgot to mention that the GF1 has reportedly displayed significantly faster focus lock than the Pen. Updated list:

Pros:
About the same size and weight as the Oly
20mm 1.7 lens appears to be better than the Oly 17mm 2.8 (DPReview has a lens test)
Higher res LCD
Faster focussing
Pop-up flash
Add-on EVF if you want it (expensive though) (Oly has Add-on optical viewfinder for the 17mm)

Cons:
No in-body IS (some Panasonic lenses have in-lens IS)

How's that now?

Gary, you're testing the Pen? Be interested in hearing about it...

Michael

Ben.bb wrote:Yep, but the Oly is not a DSLR. With just the 17mm pancake it's somewhat pocketable.

That is very true.

photohiker wrote:How's that now?

Much better.

Gary, you're testing the Pen? Be interested in hearing about it...

Check this thread. It tells all.