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If you didn't already see, Phil Askey's review of the D2X review is now out. (Interestingly before the 1Ds Mk II, which was released first)

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond2x/

joolz wrote:If you didn't already see, Phil Askey's review of the D2X review is now out. (Interestingly before the 1Ds Mk II, which was released first)

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond2x/

This is not help! many reviews has been released prior to Phil's one.
And Phil is the C's guy.

Very positive review, he ends with saying he might buy one

Glen wrote:Very positive review, he ends with saying he might buy one

Glen,
Why not your say?

Watching the price like a hawk from this end Birddy

Glen wrote:Watching the price like a hawk from this end Birddy

Glen,

so what is your "happy" price point?

huynhie wrote:

Glen wrote:Watching the price like a hawk from this end Birddy

Glen,

so what is your "happy" price point?

less than $6500.00 GST Inc. I guess!

Seems pretty accurate review... I agree with all the cons he listed except I am not sure about the WB issue...
Agree and glad he mentioned the encryption issue

Birddog114 wrote:

huynhie wrote:

Glen wrote:Watching the price like a hawk from this end Birddy

Glen,

so what is your "happy" price point?

less than $6500.00 GST Inc. I guess!

*sigh* please make it more expensive Birddog... The cheaper you make it the more I wish I could afford it...
I wonder if anywhere buys body parts

MHD,
Once you finished your study, then you can get two, one to go and to show

Birddog114 wrote:

joolz wrote:If you didn't already see, Phil Askey's review of the D2X review is now out. (Interestingly before the 1Ds Mk II, which was released first)

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond2x/

This is not help! many reviews has been released prior to Phil's one.
And Phil is the C's guy.

Phil, a C's guy, giving top marks to D2X. Now that's something. D2X is the way to go. At least, now i don't regret making the switch from C. I must start budgeting for a D2X. Not only C body are more expensives, lens too are more expensive than Nikon's. Phil did not touch much on Nikon's Flash which will win over C's hands down. C's flash system sucks big time.

regards,

Arthur

Wow, drool...... The detail is amazing, and auto bracket up to 9 frames, that would be an interesting experiment for the HDR function in PSCS2...

Yeosca, the D2X is a long way off budgetting for me. While it's a great body the $7k price tag is a bit much for me at this stage. I'll carry on quite happily with my D70, remember it's the glass that counts I'll get a D2X one day I guess, or something of the equivalent, but maybe when they're half to a third of the price they are today.

Come on Kipper,
You gotta have it for your bird hunting! Super faaaaaaaasssst focus when using with the 300VR/ 400/ 500/ 600mm and guess what: once you hold and shoot with the D2x, you'll have your D70 gathering dust in the cupboard.
I'm hardly touch my D100 since I have the D2x, my main backup body is the D2h and the D100 is just tagged along as a third backup, my kids play with my D70s.
I got the loan 600mm last w/e, went up to the Bay and enjoying the long zoom.

Sorry for encouraging body lust (no not that type ) to add to lens lust.
I find Phil's reviews quite thorough and give a good feel for the cameras. Steve's digicams also has posted their D2X review, but it's nowhere near as useful or insightful. Some on the Canon forum have accused Phil of being Nikon biased . I guess he does own a 20D, though he's indicated he's interested in buying a D2X for himself. That's a vote of confidence if ever I heard one.
It's just nice to have an indication of where Nikon are headed with their technology and innovation. It also supports the idea of DX lenses for at least a few more years if not indefinitely.

kipper wrote:Yeosca, the D2X is a long way off budgetting for me. While it's a great body the $7k price tag is a bit much for me at this stage. I'll carry on quite happily with my D70, remember it's the glass that counts I'll get a D2X one day I guess, or something of the equivalent, but maybe when they're half to a third of the price they are today.

Yeah. D2X at $7K is alot of money. But compared to Canon MkII, it is value for money. Guess, we can settle for D2H or D2HS for $3.5K. Both are good enough for pro use. Or when D2XS or D3X is out, we will be very happy owners of D2X.

For birding shots, D2X is really must have in the long run. Mirror lockup is so valuable. Plus much more precise AF for long primes.

regards,

Arthur

Plus the high speed cropping I would think would be excellent for Bird shots.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the D200 comes out with and at what price. The pixel count will probably approach 12 like the 2x. A lot of the bells the 2x has I don't necessarily need, but if the d200 comes with a bigger viewfinder, sign me up for one those, I hate the small viewfinder on the D70. That along with the solid d200 body would make for a camera that you wouldn't have to upgrade for a long time. Well the d70 is pretty good and will suffice me for a while anyways.

As a photographic tool it's as close to perfection as I could imagine, there's really very little else you could want from a camera.

Glowing indeed. I actually trust a review from a Canon user that is being objective than a Nikonian for some reason. A good read. It looks like 10-12 mp will be the sweet spot for Pros for a while. Hard to imagine needing anymore resolution than that for a while.

yeosca,
You're exactly right, the D2x is worth with $7K, 1/2 price of the Canon MkII, it's a lot of $$$, if you can justify or can afford it, the the joys start at the first second you have the body in your hand.

For long prime, I can tell all of you:
None of other Nikon DSLR in my inventory can beat the precise and fast AF of the D2x, even with the Sigma 300-800.

I try to loan again a 600mm and a Sigma 300-800 next long week end for member who's going up to the Bay can play with them. Not confirmation yet but possible, if my contact didn't take them to the NT.

The comments that most caught my interest in his review were those relating to how the camera felt in-hand and how ergonomic it was to use. Thats always been one of Nikon's biggest advangages to me, they just 'feel right' in your hand.

Yes, simple things like the delete process is much too long winded on the C@non system.
On all Nikons press the delete button once and once more to confirm - simple yet not overly at risk of accidental image deletion.

Now if Nikon could improve the cameras so much that I would not have to ever use that button, that would be perfect.

I agree with Birddog on this - the first time you have the body in your hands

And, I am saving for the camera too

Birddog114 wrote:

huynhie wrote:

Glen wrote:Watching the price like a hawk from this end Birddy

Glen,


so what is your "happy" price point?

less than $6500.00 GST Inc. I guess!

Hi Birddog

what is this new price i hear your willing to sell for, you serious?

I had D2X body in my hands but I immediately returned it to Birddog otherwise I'd find myself in troubles and in a conflict with myself.

The price AU$6500.00 is HKG stock and from HKG, Maxwell stock is AU$6950.00

Birddog114 wrote:The price AU$6500.00 is HKG stock and from HKG, Maxwell stock is AU$6950.00

Ex.GST or Inc.GST?

Hlop wrote:

Birddog114 wrote:The price AU$6500.00 is HKG stock and from HKG, Maxwell stock is AU$6950.00

Ex.GST or Inc.GST?

Both are GST Inc.

Birddog114 wrote:The price AU$6500.00 is HKG stock and from HKG, Maxwell stock is AU$6950.00

Gee... that's an unusually competitive price from Maxwell's...

I wonder why?

I have the luxury of not even being conflicted on this one, I wouldn't have the money even if I wanted to. Even if I wanted to sell my car, my home, and all my shoes, I still wouldn't have enough money to buy it. Maybe if I sold my rental property, but that would take a little while. If I had the money sitting around, then I'd be conflicted.

joolz wrote:Yes, simple things like the delete process is much too long winded on the C@non system.
On all Nikons press the delete button once and once more to confirm - simple yet not overly at risk of accidental image deletion.

I think I like the press the delete button and then the accept (SET) button on my Canon much better. Pressing the same button twice is just asking for mistakes.

I agree Petal, but I think both have their strengths. My Canon A80 has the same delete + set procedure, and it's more difficult to delete a photo accidentally, but then again it's slower if you know you want to delete something. Also with digital and large capacity CF cards being so cheap I don't find myself pressing the delete button very often anyway.

Hey guys, have seen a number of reviews on the D2X all are glowng except for a couple of common things...one is noise above ISO800.

For you pros out there is this really a concern for you all --- do you shoot much above ISO800 or is ISO above 800 only used for "specialist" shots?

What's noise? never heard! NI will solve the problems if there's.

Hi Birddog, it is sensor noise and yes the camera does have very advanced noise reduction algorithms to process noise "out" of photos but I would have thought that this would reduce the sharpness and clarity of the image?


My personal belief is that it is not really an issue, as there are aways around it i.e. you can use faster lenses etc.... but I am an amateur so was wondering what you pros think do you really need low noise performance at ISO 1600+?

How many photogs is shooting at ISO 1600 +? and how's often you think you'll shoot at that level of ISO?
Again NI can clean all and retain the sharpness of the image.
I have no problems with the noise in D2x, I shoot ISO800+ few times and happy with it, and didn't see many complaints about it across other forums. Sometimes noise brings up the value of your pics

Good Point !!. Thanks Birddog.

I must admit after having a chance to play with Birdy's D2X as well as reading Phil "Canon" Askey's review, I have developed a severe case of D2X lust

As far as noise, sharpness,etc,etc, complaints, I offer exhibit 1 for the defence. This is a 100% crop of a pic I took of Birddog with his D2X. I just picked it up off the table, I have no idea how it was set up, as others had played with it before me, I can't even remember what lens was on it. From memory, this image has minimal PP:



Looking at this and other images, I'm sure that a 12mp DX format camera would keep me happy for a while. It would give you very sharp prints up to A3+. The price of a D2X might be scary at the moment, but in time the D100 and/or D70 replacement should offer this sought of resolution at an affordable price.

I've heard that the 1Ds MkII's pictures were soft, but didn't know they were that soft...

I'm very glad that I went and is sticking to Nikon.

I shoot with the other brand - and I have had extensive experience with their 1Ds Mark II.

Yesterday I got to spend ten minutes with a brand new D2X. As much as I've been on the Other Side of the Canon vs. Nikon debate, there's something that needs to be said about a professional camera I can pick up and simply and intuitively use without having to refer to a manual.

The Canon requires a manual. You have no hope of using it without one.

A few notes:

* Sharpness - the D2X's sensor is capable of resolving much more detail than the Canon. Every review I've seen even with Canon's L-series lenses have shown the 1Ds II to be soft in full-crop. This is a good idea for Nikon as high speed crop mode puts a heavy burden on the detail that the sensor can resolve. Perhaps I wasn't using the *right* L-glass though...
* Not full-frame - while I appreciate and like full-frame shots, vignetting is a big problem on full frame digital (and film) bodies which the DX format seems to resolve. A 28mm lens on DX doesn't give me the wide angle I enjoy, though.
* Viewfinder - Take a look through a 1Ds II's viewfinder and then compare with the Nikon. I think the Canon's viewfinder wins hands down.
* Screen - ... however, the Nikon's 2 inch screen is amazing. Colours are brilliant and it lets me zoom in enough to check sharpness on the go. The Canon's screen lets me zoom in pretty big although the edges are blurred for some reason. After putting the camera down, the thought running through my head was "wow.. the screen".
* High ISO noise - I hate to say it, but the Canon's high ISO noise is appreciably better than the D2X's. Colours in the D2X seem a bit more *there* than the Canon at high ISO, though. I look forward to putting some images through severe noise reduction and seeing how they turn out. ISO 3200 is close to unusable without post.
* Image colour - the dynamic range of this thing is incredible but doesn't really leave the Canon for dead. It's a personal thing, I guess -and I'm still of the Canon camp.
* Weight. Lighter than the D1X *and* the 1Ds II. This makes all the difference when you are holding it with a light lens.
* Handling - I prefer the handling of the 1Ds II in terms of how it feels in my hand but the reduced weight of the D2X is really lovely. Big improvement from the D1X, too - grips feel a lot nicer than the D1X but the vertical grip on the 1Ds II is my preference here.
* User interface - love the layout of the controls. Easy to use! One button to set the ISO - *one*. The Canon required two buttons *and* the turn of a wheel -simultaneously. Sheesh.
* High speed crop mode. Rocks. That's all I have to say about that. There's nothing like that machine gun sound coming out of a DSLR. Solves the "I need a 1Ds II and a 1D II in the kit" problem - or the "I want the good lens on the other camera" and not have time to do a swap.
* Accurate battery indicator. With the Canon, I shoot 1000 images, bar drops down to 50% and I get five more before it tells me to replace the battery. Thanks. The Nikon seems to give me a more gradual battery indicator which seems more representitive of the actual battery charge. Smaller battery size! Nikon claim 2000 shots I think? Wow. Batteries are small which means they *fit in a pocket* ready for quick changeover. The Canon batteries fit in my pockets... if I wear cargo pants or a big coat. Canon batteries appear to be cheaper, however, but I may be wrong.
* The little dash of red on the camera. The Nikon looks less serious and more 'wow'. The Canon has gold plated "1Ds" and "Mark II Digital".
* I'm told the D2X is not weather sealed? This is a must-have for some pros who shoot in the open - if it rains, there goes your shots. It was funny to see all the Nikon shooters run off to shelter when it started raining at the Airshow Down Under this year while all the 1-series Canon users continued shooting - some of them pulled out their raincoats though.
* Price. I really don't need to say anything about the D2X coming in at almost half the price of the Canon. I originally thought that the Canon's price could be attributed to the included software (I tend to use CS2 + ACR anyway) and their service ...but after my recent experience (see below), I'm in doubt.

I haven't seen many pros shoot above 800. In fact, I've rarely see anyone shoot above 400. I prefer available light shooting, though.

If you're a diehard Canon user and you feel enraged for me letting the team down then ask Canon why fixing a shutter bounce problem takes five weeks with a 1Ds II for a non CPS member. That's no way to treat a customer.

I can't help but see the feature set of the Nikon and wish that the Canon had those features. As for the replacement to the D2X, the sensor resolution and noise are the only two improvements that come to mind.

Conclusion: Ten minutes with a D2X has really spoiled the 1Ds II for me - I'll miss a lot of features when I pick up that Canon again.

Welcome Zardoz!
Good review and comparison from you and I totally agreed with your say in between the two.
I'm not a pro-photogs, photography is one of my hobbies, I did shoot the D2x under light rain and has no effect to the body, the body and the 500/ f.4 AF-S got wet but I wiped it out with the cloth and kept shooting. I had no return it back to service yet and no need to do it.
For the price of Canon 1DS MKII, I rather buy two D2x bodies or 1 x D2x + a pro long zoom.

Thanks for the insights Zardoz and welcome.
Great start to your posts. It's always interesting to see things from another brand's perspective. As I imagine, all cameras have their compromises and it's a matter of what one prefers or needs.

Welcome Zardoz, very nice to see a fair and unbiased review with such detail. Thank you

Fantastic review Zardoz. It is nice to know that honest people can put in a good word for the opposition when they see reason. Bravo.

I love the fierce competition that Nik and Can are engaging in. We, the consumers, are big winners.

It is so hard holding myself back from the D2x.

Johndec - the pic you show of Birdie shows effects that I used to get on the D1 - a form of halation which can be attributed to either pre or post sharpening - but I am still going to get a D2X