Zoo-age, glass and processing

[biggerry]

If it is not hard enough to get an animal to pose correctly, then trying to get a decent shot thru glass makes the whole experience a bit depressing. However, with the appropriate amount of beating the file over the head it seems one can return a image close to what the scene looks like without the glass, or at the very least close to what you see in person on the day.

So, what techniques, processing wise, do people employ to process image taken with a thick bit of glass with a reflective surface on the opposite side?

1) Colour feels natural and reflects what I saw, the whites are too cool tho imo. This one was a 4 shot pano (never thought I would pano a tiger)



2) Again, very natural fur colour but the whites are not quite right imo



3) & 4) two different options for processing, one returns the whites to something that I think is nice and correct, however the remaining image feels too warm. On the flip side, the other image is definitely too cool.

Changing WB does not seem to be the ultimate answer for processing, i think you need to look at whole range of factors, including the angle at which the lens is to the glass (not always a variable under control) and how far from teh glass, in each case it seems there is not a single method to get a consistent result, it seems to be case by case processing. thoughts?

[surenj]

Two problems to solve here.

1. Maintaining 'correct' whitebalance
2. Removing color-cast provided by the glass (pray that this is fairly uniform)

Second one is could be tricky especially if you don't know what it is.

How about trying this.
1. Adjust WB using white
2. Adjust WB using gray

[surenj]

sweet pics by the way.

[surenj]

On third thoughts, it looks like a magenta cast in one and too green in the other. Just slide the magenta-green slider hither and see whether you can 'eye' it.

[CraigVTR]

Considering the problems with the glass they are very good shots, sharper than a tigers tooth.
Although I know sweet fa about colour I can see the colour cast. I cannot think of anything to try except the white, grey or black point droppers.

[Steffen]

Great shots, esp the pano with the cubs.

I reckon the WB is spot-on in the second shot. The pano is a bit on the cool side, and the last two are way off (to the magenta and green end, respectively).

Cheers
Steffen.

[Remorhaz]

I like the pano and I don't mind that it is a touch cool - in fact I probably prefer those colours to the potentially more accurate second.

Likewise I much prefer the third (even with and perhaps even because of the magenta) to the fourth.

Man those babies ears really pop agains the oof mothers body - little dof in action here and you nailed the mothers eyes - what aperture/focal length did you use if you don't mind?

[aim54x]

I will be damned...a find pano that is!

I don understand what you mean by the WB issues...I have had lots of trouble with the tigers as well. These are very nice, and on my freshly calibrated screen they all display the subtle issues you describe. However, my knowledge of the conditions means I will back the first time images as being most natural, and to do better it will definitely be a case by case correction.

[chrisk]

Yeah that tiger enclosure in particular is hell on the wb. Much more so than any other shoot thru glass i have experienced. Youve done a great job on the wb restoration though. I hope to get out there and have a

I love that first pano, what a superb idea, never thought of that ! The alignment of the white dots on the cub ears is very eye catching. The last 2 shots have a heavily processed look which personally i dont like much. Looks like they are really oversharpened and the contrast is too heavy handed.

[surenj]

[surenj]

Interesting how FF and Chrome show slightly different colors. I guess chrome is not color-managed....

[PiroStitch]

If you use Lightroom, try tweaking the Hue and Saturation settings as well for each individual colour channel.

Having said that, I don't mind what you've done with the third image.

[ATJ]

I don't notice any white balance issues in the first two, although the whites do look a tad blue. The issues with the 3rd and 4th are obvious though. Can't you apply the same technique to these as you did the first?

[gstark]

I doubt that these are actually wb issues at all.

Look closely at the shoulder of the adult tiger in image 4: there's something green there. Now look in the lower lh corner of the same image, and you'll see a slightly oof piece of grass. Is this first green item a reflection or refraction from the glass through which the image has been made, or is it another piece of oof grass that just happens to be in the image?

Neither of these appear in image #3.

Each of these images should probably have the same colour temperature set in order to assign the correct wb; if the first two are correct (wb speaking) then ascertain the colour temperature for those images, and assign that value to these and see what sort of outcome that gives you.

[biggerry]

How about trying this.
1. Adjust WB using white
2. Adjust WB using gray

I cannot think of anything to try except the white, grey or black point droppers

hmm, I did try using white point adjustment in particular using the droppers in CNX2, however what I found is that whilst it corrects the white, it throws out the magenta? and makes it look sickly warm.

Just slide the magenta-green slider hither and see whether you can 'eye' it.

yes, this coupled with a white point adjustment and warmth adjustmet seems to get clos eon a global level.

Having said that, I don't mind what you've done with the third image.

Likewise I much prefer the third (even with and perhaps even because of the magenta) to the fourth.

I think if you see this image in isolation it looks nice, however when you have another reference the cast stands out quite a bit, I also like this one, however I know it is not how the scene looked, even though the white is probably the most accurate here.

and the last two are way off (to the magenta and green end, respectively).

Suren, that reworked image you posted is quite good, the whites are perfect, however I think this illustrates the problem, whilst you have nailed the white the fur colour and temperature don't match reality, that said, I think using that one as a starting point would go along way to improving them.

Man those babies ears really pop agains the oof mothers body - little dof in action here and you nailed the mothers eyes - what aperture/focal length did you use if you don't mind?

all exif data should be there (except pano), however these are all on the 300mm f/4 @ f4 iso 800 with exposure comp -0.5

I don't notice any white balance issues in the first two, although the whites do look a tad blue. The issues with the 3rd and 4th are obvious though. Can't you apply the same technique to these as you did the first?

yes and no, applying the same technique gives a different result, i suspect it has more to do with the fact that the first two are shot perpendicular to teh glass and the last ones are more acute angle.

Refer to images at the bottom of the thread which I have reworked to try and match to the second one, however the processing is different for these

My main point is that I don't think there is a blanket processing you can apply here, you need to address each image case by case, depending on angle to glass, distance to glass etc.

The last 2 shots have a heavily processed look which personally i dont like much. Looks like they are really oversharpened and the contrast is too heavy handed.

fair call, the oversharpening is not something I am seeing, however it may well be more prevailent in the web sized version, the last image is actually slight OOF due to motion blur lol..

image 4: there's something green there. Now look in the lower lh corner of the same image, and you'll see a slightly oof piece of grass. Is this first green item a reflection or refraction from the glass through which the image has been made, or is it another piece of oof grass that just happens to be in the image?

yep, that is a reflection on the glass, however i am pretty sure that is isolated, the other green patch you are referring to as you guessed is just a OOf grass blade.

Each of these images should probably have the same colour temperature set in order to assign the correct wb; if the first two are correct (wb speaking) then ascertain the colour temperature for those images, and assign that value to these and see what sort of outcome that gives you.

sounds like a sensible way of doing it

I think my way was a bit more round about however here are some reworked versions.





I sooo had the best picture of day which was framed to the same as this next, however she was staring right down the barrel, as murphy's law would have it, on those 3 shots teh focus died and i have 3 stunning images all way OOF sigh...




cheers for all teh feedback guys.

[surenj]

Hey Gerry, my edit looks slightly different on LR. Oh well.

I reckon just cut your losses. Correct for the 'ambient' and then selectively desaturate the whites....