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I find that when an Image is offerered for Critique there maybe is 50 / 100 / 150 / 200 views with only about 5-10 replies offering Praise / Dislike / or other in this Image Reviews & Critiques.

Just a suggestion to all involved New & Old Members.

I think a lot more should offer their 2 cents worth not just the known ones to that particular Member, It would help a lot with more of a diverse Critique.

I know the new ones are thinking gees, but I'm not experienced enough to know all this Techno Babble Digital Hoo Haaa.
But somtimes simple suggestions would make a difference and help each party to learn more.

Just a suggestion, With a few more Critiques rather than give the poor old Admin / Moderator guys the irrits with why the Site has changed and Chicken Little The Sky Is Falling

Just a thought to maybe help others too instead of thinking of ourselves that have become good Photographers from learning from this Great Forum which will still be a great forum after all the changes.

Mic.

It's a good idea Mic and I agree that getting critiques is very valuable. My only dislike in regards to critiques is the endless string of "yeah, me to", "i like", "nice pic" comments. It isn't as prevalent here as in many forums but it bugs me like a burr in my boxers! The other thing (sorry to rant) is when the critique goes way off topic and ends up as a chat between a few friends. Again, more prevalent on other sites.

I like critiques that point out mistakes i made.
I like critiques that offer my alternative ways of viewing my subject.
I like critiques that point out things i could try next time.
I really really like critiques that offer me something to try next time rather than just pointing out what is wrong this time.

Last thing is, I only comment on images that really do something for me or that i really think i have something to offer the shooter by way of advice. There's an awful lot of shots and i don't even see them all, let alone comment on them all!

Just a few comments on why I (and maybe others) don't always critique.

cheers,

adam PS - all that said, i'll make more of an effort. Scouts honour!

Fair point Adam, I mostly agree

Mic.

maybe the thread starter could narrow what they want critic on.

if a picture is worth a thousand words, then u would get a thousand opinion

When I view pics posted I do one of two things - 1) offer critique; 2) say it is a great pic etc because IMO there is nothing to critique about the pic but want the poster to know that he/she has a great pic

EDIT: I must add that there are pics that I do neither as I can’t find the words to give coherent critique.

My 2cents.

I'm hesitant, actually very reluctant, to post critiques, for a number of reasons, but mainly because the original poster doesn't start the ball rolling.

Being new here, I don't know anyone very well, so I don't know what people really want, when they post a pic. I'm neither an "expurt" nor an art critic. I don't KIA (know it all) and I don't want to step on people's toes. I'd much rather get along with folks and discuss things without resentment or animous. It's not that I have a thin skin or am timid, it's just that I don't squat in someone's messkit without reason. It's also hard to post a critique, such as the color is off and the image is OOF, when a couple of other posters have already posted how sharp it is, with great color.

I especially don't want to say that a pic sux because of X, Y & Z, after the poster has shown that he's posted something he's proud of.... I certainly don't want to be a wet rag on somone's enthusiasm. I'd much rather encourage than discourage people. It's even more of a problem when you're dissing the artistic side, rather than fundamental problems.

I understand where you're coming from, but it's a bigger can of worms than it might appear on the surface.

I'm much more inclined to post a critique type of opinion on a post where the author has stated there's something wrong and wants to correct it. I also like to discuss technical issues on how shots are done and why the photog chose the settings, POV, etc that he used.

I agree with you Mic, I remember 1 pic I had and there were at least 10 views before any one said anything. I was waiting and waiting....thinking this must be a shocking pic if no one can say anything about it!

But on the other hand there are a lot of pics here that I cannot find the words to comment on! Usually because they are brilliant, and as I know nothing about photoshop and what amazing things can be done with it, I cannot offer anything constructive other than 'fabulous pic!'

It is always such a fabulous thread to read and learn from, and of course to gain some wonderful inspiration which will be put into practice one day! I now have PSCS, so once I learn all about it I should be able to make more constructive critique. ATM I love looking at people's pics and seeing what this wonderful piece of equipment can do (plus a little PP!!)

I am hesitant to post critiques cause I am really only a newbie to this field, and at the moment feel I have little to offer in terms of valuable critiques....but you are quite right mic, why should the responsibility to critique fall on only a few shoulders....

So I will try and atleast say why i like or not like the pic....

Just for the record...

When I post my images I am after HONEST comments regarding them. If you don't like it say so... But tell me why. I have thick enough skin and if I really like one of my images and someone says they don't I will usually point out what I like to counteract their comments, this ends up in a good discussion.

I post images to improve my photograhpy, not to showcase my work (well ok maybe a little, especially when the images are of my kids).

I try and give honest feedback when critiquing images, often I have said that I don't like an image for one reason or another. I guess I pressume people post their images for the same reason I do.

I have been guilty of just saying "I like it" though, usually due to time constraints (to busy to elaborate).

Whatever happens the Image Critique section will remand my favourite section of the forum (since it was my idea in the first place )

W00DY

Yes, I agree with the points made, but my main one was that of what Stormy has just raised, She is fairly new & learning and this is what she thought.

Just an observation from me. Thats all.

Mic.

do you think some people get offended if they were given bad comments.
i know i get alot of fans about the tilting of my racing images
I know that we don't know evryone here so some ppl find it hard to put in the hard word about each other photographs.
maybe a polling system? or anaymous comments?

redline wrote:
do you think some people get offended if they were given bad comments.

Possibly.

But I think if the bad comments are written in a constructive way 90% of people would appreciate them (I hope).

W00DY

would it be possible for us all to come up with a guideline, or template on how critiques could be set out ??

Just as an example:

Composition (out of 10) -
Technique (out of 10) -
Post-Processing (out of 10) -
Comments:

....or something along those lines.

This way, critiques would have some sort of form about it rather than the obligatory "nice pic" comment that doesn't help anyone.

Perhaps, on the other side of the coin, there should also be a way of posting for a critique as well, including what equipment was used, what PP has been done etc... so everyone can (a) learn how/what makes a good/bad photo and (b) helps everyone critiquing...?????

Thoughts/ideas/suggestions ???

critique on photo.net is and can be brutal but it does serve a purpose there
are a lot of pros posting so you get the best of both worlds. maybe this is a model to follow? i consider pics posted to this site have a wealth of talent.

Okay, at risk of being an arse, I'll critique your post.

stormygirl wrote:I agree with you Mic, I remember 1 pic I had and there were at least 10 views before any one said anything. I was waiting and waiting....thinking this must be a shocking pic if no one can say anything about it!

Your comments will usually lead to the type of responses you get. If you want specific comments, you'll get responses to that end, if your opening comments are also specific.

For example, you could say that you like the general appearance of the pic, but it lacks something that you can't describe and ask for help defining what is lacking.

But on the other hand there are a lot of pics here that I cannot find the words to comment on! Usually because they are brilliant, and as I know nothing about photoshop and what amazing things can be done with it, I cannot offer anything constructive other than 'fabulous pic!'

No need to be critical. You can say it's fabulous and then ask them how the hell they did it. Tell them what you like and that you want to learn how to do that. Doesn't matter if it's post processing or a camera skill. Discussions of that nature help everyone learn, IMO.

ATM I love looking at people's pics and seeing what this wonderful piece of equipment can do (plus a little PP!!)

FWIW, I learned a ton, by viewing thousands of photos on photosig, while I was a participating member there. Photosig is supposed to be a "critique" site. But, it was mostly the same thing you see anywhere else. The good critiques were few and far between, but good photos were plentiful. I looked at all those good shots and did my best to learn how to emulate what I liked about them. It's not easy. If it were, anyone could do it.

A major point to remember in this discussion is that we are all individuals and as such will all have a different interpretation on a posted pic.

I will continue to say beautiful pic or whatever if I find there is nothing to critique on. In saying that, and as stated above, there will be others who look at the same pic and find something they can critique on - this is what makes this a democratic forum.

And Mic, please keep in my your own posting titled ”Sorry Chris” - ”I was going to stop this because I thought everybody might of been getting Jack of it, I'll just be more selective and a few If I really like.”

The answer to this is simple: 1) in your post ask for critique 2) as per Mic’s statement in the previous paragraph - post it because you like and leave it open to critique

mic, this issue has come up a couple of times over the life of d70Users, both in terms of wanting more critiques, and having some structure for them.

Without meaning to try and speak for Gary, I think he has always been keen on maintaining are fairly loose structure, not too many rules, strong emphasis on good manners, and so on.

So, threads of any sort do go hurtling OT at times (I plead a bit guilty to that), the number of participants and posted images has grown, etc.

I comment on stuff I really like for whatever reason. I would usually only offer a critical comment on shots from accomplished photographers who are generally past the stage of being a bit sensitive and crave genuine feedback. Newer photogs do too, but encouragement is more important.

But it probably all comes down to time, and equally a difficulty finding the right words for some shots. It is easier to say why you like something and spread a bit of love.

Kerry, I am very impressed with your spelling of "arse", you are clearly worthy of the title, Honorary Australian.

Faaiiiiirrrrrrrr enough

G'day,
I'm apprehensive to critique shots posted by people that obviously have a lot more talent than I have (or ever will!) and also sometimes have trouble defining why an image really knocks my socks off or does nothing for me...

When viewing stuff one of the first things I look for is any comments re: "critique welcome" or "comments appreciated" etc, and then I'll try to make some form of comment (whether it's useful or not is another matter )

I understand where you're coming from though as without the advice and tips I've received from the talented members of this forum, I would not have improved at all, whereas I feel as though I have, so I should try harder to repay that, so fair point...

I think from my perspective I'll try harder when there's a comment re critique or comments wanted etc...

Cheers.

Greg B wrote:
Kerry, I am very impressed with your spelling of "arse", you are clearly worthy of the title, Honorary Australian.

Wow! That's very cool. That's a title I would wear proudly.

this site compared to other photography sites is 20 fold better than any other in terms of response, particularly for such a small membership pool.

Dont be complaining !

I do notice that you can always rely on Sirch to give you a comment on an image!
I was terrified to put up an image to start with because I thought that nothing I could ever do would be good enough to show anyone else. Since everyone was so friendly and nice it now doesn't bother me and I am more interested in how to fix them up and make them better.
It was discussed around xmas time that we may put in a "newbie picture posting" area where people could put pictures for more encouraging critiques. I think that quite a few people would be more willing to put pictures on this as it tags you as a learner (ie I am trying my best so be nice but give me a couple of things to work on!).

this site compared to other photography sites is 20 fold better than any other in terms of response, particularly for such a small membership pool.

Dont be complaining !

darb, please read carefully, no ones complaining

Everyone has offered some good info.

Mic.

hi mate, the thread title must have mislead me

I haven't read the rest of the thread, was just replying to you.

Young GrassHopper Darb

Look further than thy own stone cast

Thats my bit of Yodaism for today.

Keep inspiring me with those Pics of yours.

Cheers,

Mic.

ill shove that yoda walking stick up where it doesnt fit in a minute ! (kidding.)

perhaps posters should state either, if they are looking for... OR if they are giving... a comment or a critique ??

comment = "nice pic"

critique = detail about what is liked/disliked ???

Just another suggestion.........

I've been thinking about this topic for some time now.

I'm not a photographer by trade. I'm bloody hopeless at seeing things like "tone" or "contrast" in a picture and I have very rudimentary skills when it comes to PP, composition and the like. There are members who can look at an image and know exactly which curve to apply, which area to desaturate, which highlight to blow and where to dodge to get the best result. I'm not one of those members and I don't have those skills.

And I'm sure as hell not gonna learn if people don't tell me.

I often think it's quite presumptious of me even posting pics in this forum. The stuff I see on my screen from other members quite literally makes my jaw drop. How can I offer any sort of critique on shots like that? Is it not sufficient to say, "That's a fabulous photo and it really made me feel something" or, "It reminds me of something my Dad and I used to do together". These sort of comments add NOTHING to the technical skills of the posting photographer but I'm damn sure they add something to their human experience and, for me, that's worth a truckload of comments about white balance, ISO and focal length.

Of course, there are plenty of people here who are regular contributors to this section and always offer some sort of comment. Thank you - you know who you are.

I'm sure every member appreciates the fact that others have viewed their photo and at least acknowledged whether they liked it or not. Perhaps, if they don't want banal comments like, "Great shot", the posting member could ask for "Technical critique only please". That way, the rest of us who aren't experienced enough to make valid suggestions can just view the pic and move on.

I certainly don't post every photo I take. The ones that do make it here are ones that I feel are worthy of viewing, that, for whatever reason, I'm possibly proud of, or have been mushed and are in need of some rectification work. I appreciate ALL comments, positive, negative, highly informed or just a plain and simple, "I like it."

I do try to comment on most posted photos, when I have the time, and truly hope that everyone feels totally free to comment on mine.

When I finally get around to posting something worthwhile for critique I sincerely hope that people who see fault with the shot can offer me advice on how I could do it better, what setting they would suggest etc.

From what I have seen on this forum, people are very well mannered and extremely helpful which is a manner sadly lacking in todays society.

I love looking at your images guys, as they say, a picture speaks a thousand words

I also have noticed the lack of critiques per view. But I can't honestly expect everyone that views to give a critique. Although, I will always give a critique if I have something to say.

Point taken from all, I was just curious why and Image gets viewed a lot lets say 40 / 50 /60 /70 / 80 etc etc even 150 200 ?

The Post ee gets 2 / 5 / 7 / 10 / replies. I just thought it might be higher say 20 or 30

Justs seems a lot viewing & not replying.

Thats All , don't get me wrong here. There is not any complaints from my camp ( I'm Happy. See )

Just thought I would put this forward and see what the answer be.

Mic.

mic maybe you should post a picture of a tranny!

Jethro, I'm still coming to terms with that Hideous shocking image.
The worst thing about it I think I dreamt of Marcus standing at the end of my bed with a dagger dressed to the nines like you posted

I woke up in a cold sweat panting like a Platterpus

Please, No more. Please

Mic. ( In thearapy )

I think that mic has a good point. I like to think that I give my fair share of critiques, and I also think that many are quality. Critiquing does many things:

1. It helps you understand what you like and dislike about certain principles of photography. In writing your critique you confirm and reaffirm what you strive for in taking photos and achieving beauty/meaning. Reply to a picture and just type while you think about it. You'll find that every detail of the pic adds sums up why the picture had a particular effect on you, and you will be more prone to seek the same thing when taking your next photo.

2. It helps the photog understand what he did that works, and what he didn't that would work, and what he did that didn't work. The more opinions the better.

3. Often I see a pic and I think "Blam that's a fine pic, but why?" then someone posts critique on it "I like the way the lines lead me into the photo, I like the story, I like the contrast in the sky" each time I read something like this it either confirms in my mind to do it, or i note not to do it.

4. It confirms what you really don't like so you don't have to waste your time doing the same thing. Whenever someone posts a Black and White picture with a splash of color (red baseball cap or something) I sort of gag. I don't post how I don't like it because that is a purely subjective take on a tried strategy that obviously works for some.

Posting is great because it forces me to look carefully at my picture. Often I think I'm done and then I post. Only after posting do I find little (sometimes big) details that should be changed. I confess I try to critique but I get lazy sometimes and I appreciate Mic bringing this up. I expect people to post on my pics and it therefore behooves me to critique/comment on others'. Obviously we aren't going to post on EVERY pic, but we should try and contribute.

The first time I posted a pic I read the statement under the link "Got thin skin? Then go somewhere else" which really says it all. If someone has thin skin then they are more than welcome to show the pic to their friends only.
In general, if you don't critique every so often you do a diservice to the photog and yourself as well.

i dunno about the other folks here on d70users, but i can't check the fourm out on a 2hr bascis or at the comp to read/ comment on every posted imaged that comes thru everyday(except my day off of course).
i guess sometimes i am not in the critiquing mood or other member has alreadly brought up an thought that i had on the image.

redline wrote:i dunno about the other folks here on d70users, but i can't check the fourm out on a 2hr bascis or at the comp to read/ comment on every posted imaged that comes thru everyday(except my day off of course).
i guess sometimes i am not in the critiquing mood or other member has alreadly brought up an thought that i had on the image.

Good points Redline - it would be great to be in a position where you had time to look at every image but that's not the case for the majority of us.

My point is mainly directed to those that look at an image, have TIME to make a comment but choose not to because they don't think their opinion is valid or for other unfounded reasons.

I'd also hate to think that we would ever have an echelon of members here that only commented on each others' images and offered nothing to the rest.

not sure if this has been said somewhere in this thread.. i have been lazy and not read the whole thing

perhaps it might be a good idea to have a "Critique" forum and a separate forum for just plain sharing?

In the critique forum you can have a round about guideline which must be met for a critique of an image... such as this thread:

http://forum.d70users.com/viewtopic.php ... t=critique

just an idea

While we're on guidelines, could we perhaps establish a set of publishing guidelines for images posted? eg. max of 600 pixels wide, or post only thumbs with links to a bigger image, etc.

Standardise the viewing experience and we'll probably streamline the critiques and comments on it too.

xerubus wrote:not sure if this has been said somewhere in this thread.. i have been lazy and not read the whole thing

perhaps it might be a good idea to have a "Critique" forum and a separate forum for just plain sharing?

In the critique forum you can have a round about guideline which must be met for a critique of an image... such as this thread:

http://forum.d70users.com/viewtopic.php ... t=critique

just an idea

that's kinda what I suggested earlier in the post. Perhaps we don't need huge formalities, but some general points, used with some sort of consistancy, may make things easier ?!?

I guess it comes down to what do people posting their pics really want ? Are they looking to just share their pics, with general comments welcomed, or are they looking for others, both more skilled and rank amateurs to give their opinion, insight and knowledge on what makes photo X a great photo or what could be done next time to make it better ??

I know I prefer the latter, however some people don't feel comfortable expressing their opinions, in fear of offending or insulting the poster.
If I posted a photo and someone replied saying it was really bad and I should have done this, this & this.....if what they were saying made sense, then that is "constructive critisism" and I would take it onboard.

Indeed a very interesting topic......

Good to read everyone's views. Such a great forum !
Well done everyone.....

Onyx wrote:While we're on guidelines, could we perhaps establish a set of publishing guidelines for images posted? eg. max of 600 pixels wide, or post only thumbs with links to a bigger image, etc.

Standardise the viewing experience and we'll probably streamline the critiques and comments on it too.

great idea Onyx.

I know I posted a pic yesterday in the "post your favourite pic of the moment" and when I waited for the page to reload after submitting it, I thought to myself "I probably should have made it smaller".

I'll certainly remember that in future !

i too agree with image posting sizes. but it has'nt been much of a problem and i reckon under 800 pixels at ps qul. 8 would keep file sizes to a minimal (80kb).

although with xerubus's idea with opening other topic for general sharing
of images we could just stick them into general disscussion? as they ain't very specific and don't require any critiques.

Not that I am counting but only 40 POSTS and 377 VIEWS, looks like there are only a small number of people who post. what happened to the other 337 possible posts

big pix

Edit make that 41 and 381

big pix wrote:Not that I am counting but only 40 POSTS and 377 VIEWS, looks like there are only a small number of people who post. what happened to the other 337 possible posts

big pix

Edit make that 41 and 381

A very nice thought big pix, but personally I have enough trouble keeping up with this forum as it is... If we all felt (or were) compelled to comment on everything we saw, we would very soon all drown...
Unfortunately (as I have to maintain the impression that I am actually working during the day) I can only afford to skim the forum these days and only respond if:::
I REALLY feel the need to;
If something really grabs my attention;
It's something from someone that I personally know (from mini-meets etc.);
or someone I want to purposefully argue with (like Dooda) [JOKE - Dooda:lol:] ...

I very much wish it were otherwise (and I had unlimited time to read and learn from every message in this forum), but unfortunately I think that we all need to keep our submissions reasonably brief and to the point (says he, having just typed at least 20 lines of drivel)...

make that 42 and 392 minus 1 who does post when time permits......

big pix

I think that the important thing is to feel like you should post, and have it in mind to do so. We all know how many times are appropriate, when it's appropriate etc, but if you are in the habit of always skimming through the pictures and not commenting, you should make it a point to stop and comment of some of them when it's appropriate and convenient for you. It makes for a more enriching thread.

Leek, I'll always make time to argue with you

Mostly I just don't have time to spend a whole lot of time appraising photos, although I would if I could.

Secondly, sometimes I say "Nice pic" just to encourage someone, especially newcomers etc, not wanting to discourage them if I think the photo isn't much chop. I know we need negative (constructive) feedback most probably regularly, but sometimes it is not helpful.

Thirdly, sometimes I can't think of anything else to say other than "Nice pic", which is most probably better than nothing and at least a token acknowledgement of the effort to submit an image.

Fourthly, I peruse a few select photo sites mainly to enjoy the artisanship displayed.

Fifthly, I had better stop rambling and get back to work Max