DSLRUsers.com

Most people know that DSLRs, and many other electronic goods sold in Australia are usually imported via the official distributor. You then get an Australian warranty, possibly an Australian-specific model with our power adaptors and perhaps other modifications, and certainly an Australian-specific price which is often above that you'd pay elewhere.

Parallel, or grey importers import the same product, but an international version, and sell it on the Australian market. For usually less than the "official" importers can buy it from the distributor.

The risk is of course that should something go wrong you'll be paying for it, as your warranty won't be valid. But you may risk that, as warranties are only for the first year, and the savings can be more than a minor repair anyway.

I buy my kit from parallel importers, but haven't had a problem with any of it. I have been careful to buy from the more reputable importers, for example by reading posts in this very forum (thanks gstark et al). Obviously there are some cut'n'run merchants, and you can pretty easily work out who those are. You wouldn't want to have to try them with a problem, and a problem is what I had recently I had a problem with my Canon 40D. That body is around 8 months old and has had a lot of hard use. It developed a fault where it would delay taking a shot even though the shutter button was fully depressed. Annoying, and from what I could see, I wasn't the only 40D owner with this problem.

So I sent the camera back to CamerasDirect who have a one-year warranty they organise, obviously not with Canon Australia behind them. They agreed it was indeed defective, and sent it off to Canon for repair. The camera was returned to me today, clean as a new one. I think they replaced the shutter, but whatever it was it cost CD $248 and me nothing other than the post back to CD, and lost camera time. Lots of test shots and I can find no problem with the 40D so declare it fixed, which is a relief as I missed three shoots with it in the six weeks it was away and using a 30D/20D just isn't the same.

Now CD have well and truly lost the profit they made from the initial sale of the 40D, but on the other hand, I'm going to be buying a 1D in the near future, and that won't be the last bit of high-end kit going on the plastic either. And I won't be paying retail price, but nor will I be going for the absolute cheapest I can find. Instead, I'm going to go back to CamerasDirect because they've proved to me they can provide quality gear at a good price, and they stand by their warranty. Can't ask for more really.

Happy shooting.


[ usual disclaimer I have nothing to do with CD or any other camera reseller, I'm just your average semi-pro shooter who needs to buy a fair bit of gear ]

Thanks for your comments.
A good feed back to CD! So thumb up.

Well, you are right but if you are a semi-pro and or you are earning money from photography why do not buy an Australian model and be part of the Pro services?

I'm an NPS (nikon pro' services) member and the benefits to spend that much over grey market is really a pleasure!
For that money you can have the best and quickest service delivered to your equipment meanwhile loan another one so you will get a camera or a lens to replace yours.
No camera=no pain! They got great pain killers!

So it is not just one year of warranty, fidelity/loyalty is paid back for less than you'd expect..... year over year !

So my opinion is : money income....Australian service.


ps
Just to let you know I'm not an Australian reseller or an Australian model "pusher" ............. telling the truth I became Australian only two years ago!


Cheers
Fab

Jeko70 wrote:For that money

With all due respect, if I am paying for Australian product and service, then why the hell should I have to pay EXTRA for this service?

I'm sorry, but but NPS - and the Canon equivalent - is basically bullshit. They should be providing a premium level of service to EVERY SINGLE ONE of their customers; god knows they charge us enough for the dubious privilege of having to put up with - er, I mean deal with - them.

I find the concept of treating one class of customer different from another abhorrent and offensive.

The world is a changing place.

We shop globally now coz we can.

We pay greater attention on price.

We can research products and sellers more easily.

So I also think that manufacturers need to embrace the new style of business and support all customers.

I bought grey coz I saved a truck load of cash doing so. Enough cash to pay for a whole bunch of services if ever required.

I went to the aussie shops and had to deal with nuf nuf sales stuff who didn't have a clue about the gear they were selling. Their pricing was not competitive. Why buy local when you get service and price elsewhere.

I am loving my grey gear and proud that I saved a truck load of cash and my money is still in aussie hands. Just happens to be in a grey importers hand rather than a big corporate nuf nuf shop.

Well, you might be right but is our own economy playing big rules.
And it's not just about OZ but it's an International issue..same to Europe.

How much earn a technician here in OZ or Europe and how much in Asia where the grey market is coming from.
Why they don't assembling all Cameras in Japan? It's all about Money and save money.
I think here is the answer.
We pay for what we want earn (tax, superanuation, health system, unemployment benefits, maternity, etc etc etc) even if I'm not a technician!


Do not mention US because their economy is over our shoulders....

The only equipment I purchased from Australian dealers was my monopod. Everything else was imported new, and sold locally after I upgraded to new equipment, which I also imported.

I don’t buy gray import from local distributors either. I think some of the local gray import distributors may get out of business before my cameras or lenses will break down. But if it happens, if I will need to repair my camera I am prepared to spend extra $120 to cover the cost of international shipping.

Also, it looks as if some of our authorised local retailers don’t follow the trends of global markets and are not aware of expected new models, and which models have been or about to be discontinued.

gstark wrote:

Jeko70 wrote:For that money

With all due respect, if I am paying for Australian product and service, then why the hell should I have to pay EXTRA for this service?.

what makes this even more offensive is that we are expected to pay a PREMIUM price for the product.

Jeko70 wrote:Well, you are right but if you are a semi-pro and or you are earning money from photography why do not buy an Australian model and be part of the Pro services?

http://www.canon.com.au/cps/about_526.html

because I'm not eligible. I don't earn the majority of my income from photography and I don't own the required equipment, ie Canon 1 Series cameras. In fact I know people that *are* full-time photogs using the 20D, 40D, 5D etc and oddly enough, they wouldn't be eligible either.

Anyway:

# Priority equipment servicing through Canon Customer Care Centres
# Service replacement loans**
# Event support for accredited photographers
# Technical support
# Professional equipment hire service**
# Pre-purchase product evaluation**
# Service discounts and special offers
# Regular communication including the latest product information updates
# Full access to the CPS website

if I have a spare body I can afford to wait a little, or rent if I really need it
Event support? What is that?
Technical support -- I find the Web just fine
Hire service -- no shortage of options there
Pre-purchase product eval -- nice, but not essential
Service discounts etc -- hmmmm, maybe
Latest production information -- doubt there would be anything there not on the web five minutes later, or before
CPS website -- yes, and what's on it, merely browsing a site is no incentive

If I forsake parallel importers then I will spend a lot of extra money and quite frankly I am really not sure it would be worthwhile.

rmp wrote:Event support? What is that?

A friend who is a fashion shooter in the USA is a CPS (with a 20D - But shes's been a CPS for 20 years - since before the 1D rule came in)

Event support is usually Lighting and Background equpiment, and Lens loans

As a CPS she can borrow up to $30,000 of equipment per shoot - for no charge.

There are apparently different levels of CPS as well - so if you are a lower level you can only borrow less (or nothing)

Disclaimer: All this is in the USA so I'm not sure it applies here.

Probably clear benefits. But I and many others aren't eligible, and even if I was a full-timer I'd need to balance the cost required against the benefit, and I'm not that equation would work out. Maybe if I did a lot of international pro travel.

The other thing is what are the chances of equipment failure? Small, IMHO. And if it does happen you're best to cover yourself with a spare body -- I have 3 bodies and I could shoot with any two of them, even just the one and still get the job done. Not saying CPS add no value, not at all, but it's a cost-benefit equation.

By the way I should mention that I had to chase CamerasDirect a couple of times to let me know what's going on, I regard over a week between updates as too long. While nothing may have changed, a little note saying "your camera is still being repaired don't worry it's not forgotten" goes a long way. This is a general customer service problem, hardly specific to CD.

rmp wrote:Now CD have well and truly lost the profit they made from the initial sale of the 40D, but on the other hand, I'm going to be buying a 1D in the near future, and that won't be the last bit of high-end kit going on the plastic either. And I won't be paying retail price, but nor will I be going for the absolute cheapest I can find. Instead, I'm going to go back to CamerasDirect because they've proved to me they can provide quality gear at a good price, and they stand by their warranty. Can't ask for more really.

I think you have missed an important fact here. While they may have "lost the profit" on your 40D, how many other 40Ds (and other products) have they sold that did not need to be repaired? That will more than cover your repair and a number of others.

ATJ wrote:

rmp wrote:Now CD have well and truly lost the profit they made from the initial sale of the 40D, but on the other hand, I'm going to be buying a 1D in the near future, and that won't be the last bit of high-end kit going on the plastic either. And I won't be paying retail price, but nor will I be going for the absolute cheapest I can find. Instead, I'm going to go back to CamerasDirect because they've proved to me they can provide quality gear at a good price, and they stand by their warranty. Can't ask for more really.

I think you have missed an important fact here. While they may have "lost the profit" on your 40D, how many other 40Ds (and other products) have they sold that did not need to be repaired? That will more than cover your repair and a number of others.

I didn't mention that because I considered it sufficiently obvious not to waste people's time stating it, and it's not relevant to customer service but to product quality.

But to expand it further from a service perspective, they have already made enough profit out of me before that to cover it, and having done this they will now make more again out of me in the future, let alone other people. If they had said "stuff it your problem" rest assured that's the last time they'd have seen me and this thread would have been quite different, and while they gained on that individual transaction they would have lost in the long term.

The short-sighted retailers look on every transaction as a discrete profit or loss. The better ones look at the overall relationship with the person concerned and the wider effect of customer service on their reputation in general.

rmp wrote:I didn't mention that because I considered it sufficiently obvious not to waste people's time stating it, and it's not relevant to customer service but to product quality.

But what you did mention is also sufficiently obvious.

rmp wrote:The short-sighted retailers look on every transaction as a discrete profit or loss. The better ones look at the overall relationship with the person concerned and the wider effect of customer service on their reputation in general.

Do you have any evidence to support that statement?

ATJ wrote:

rmp wrote:I didn't mention that because I considered it sufficiently obvious not to waste people's time stating it, and it's not relevant to customer service but to product quality.

But what you did mention is also sufficiently obvious.

depends on your point of view, but my point is that it's all to do with customer service. There's another discussion, separate discussion about how low quality goods actually cost more because retailers need to factor in a high failure rate and that may have been where you were going.

ATJ wrote:

rmp wrote:The short-sighted retailers look on every transaction as a discrete profit or loss. The better ones look at the overall relationship with the person concerned and the wider effect of customer service on their reputation in general.

Do you have any evidence to support that statement?

Can't offer you any charts, surveys or graphs. Just knowing some people in retail businesses, watching discussions on forums like this, anecdotal at best. I'm most interested to be proven wrong however. Do you think the statement is incorrect?

Jeko70 wrote:Well, you might be right but is our own economy playing big rules.

This may be correct, but it's also a fact of life, and the importers, whomever they may, need to get a grip on this.

The world has changed, and it is also a fact of life that I can probably source stuff more quickly through an off-shore supplier than I can through the local, accredited supplier.

And if you happen to live away from one of our major centres, the actual supply and delivery time to you from OS may well be an order of magnitude faster than it might be from a local supplier, probably often due to local slack attitudes and/or arrogance more than anything else.

If anyone here is expecting me to support local purely because it's local, they need to go and get stuffed: suppliers need to earn (and often they will lose) my respect.

How much earn a technician here in OZ or Europe and how much in Asia where the grey market is coming from.

But that is simply not the point. The point is ... how much am I paying for this service? All you're saying is that technicians in Oz are probably overcharging, on a world basis, for their services, and with that I would have to agree.

More correctly, perhaps you're also saying that Nikon Oz (or Canon Oz) might be overcharging for their spare parts too; I don't know if they do, but thought does come to mind when I see some repair bills.

Do not mention US because their economy is over our shoulders....

Actually, let's do mention the US, because we enjoy a very similar lifestyle and standard of living to their's, yet their costs/prices are mostly way lower than ours. Part of that is due to their larger population: the greater LA area's population is roughly that of the whole of Oz, and thus they can achieve greater economies of scale. But you do not see, for instance, that great rort of Aussie eateries - the weekend surcharge. What a load of crap that is!

And how is it that Poon is able to source US stock and sell it to us for less than we can buy Oz stock for? That tells me way more than I really care to know about how much the local distributors care about their local customers. Not a bloody hoot!

rmp wrote:

Jeko70 wrote:Well, you are right but if you are a semi-pro and or you are earning money from photography why do not buy an Australian model and be part of the Pro services?

http://www.canon.com.au/cps/about_526.html

because I'm not eligible. I don't earn the majority of my income from photography and I don't own the required equipment, ie Canon 1 Series cameras. In fact I know people that *are* full-time photogs using the 20D, 40D, 5D etc and oddly enough, they wouldn't be eligible either.

And that is a very good point too.

How dare they dictate what tools somebody might need in order to earn their income!

How bloody dare they!

Did I mention arrogance on the part of these local suppliers? You betcha!

rmp wrote:depends on your point of view, but my point is that it's all to do with customer service. There's another discussion, separate discussion about how low quality goods actually cost more because retailers need to factor in a high failure rate and that may have been where you were going.

Let's see... you purchased a product from a retailer and the product came with a warranty. The product failed, you made a claim under than warranty and the retailer honoured the warranty, which they are obliged by law to do. Yes, it would be poor customer service if they didn't honour it, but it would also be illegal. All they have done is do the minimum they were required to do, nothing more, nothing less.

And, yes, they may have lost any profit they made from the initial transaction but that is largely irrelevant (and sufficiently obvious) considering the overall profit they would make as a business.

Note that I'm not making any statements about the Cameras Direct being a good or bad retailer, I am simply suggesting you received a level of service that is your right to receive.

rmp wrote:Can't offer you any charts, surveys or graphs. Just knowing some people in retail businesses, watching discussions on forums like this, anecdotal at best. I'm most interested to be proven wrong however. Do you think the statement is incorrect?

I can't make a comment either way as I don't have any evidence. I must admit that I would be surprised to see many retailers stay in business for very long if they looked at the profit/loss of each transaction, but that is just my opinion and not something I would state as a fact.

ATJ wrote:

rmp wrote:The short-sighted retailers look on every transaction as a discrete profit or loss. The better ones look at the overall relationship with the person concerned and the wider effect of customer service on their reputation in general.

Do you have any evidence to support that statement?

I would have thought that this was common knowledge.

I will gladly shop where I receive good service - where I have built up an established relationship with knowledgeable salespeople - because of that relationship. One of the benefits that this relations should provide to me is that the salespeople should know more about the product that they're trying to sell me than I do. Thus they can support the sale.

Who amongst us here is willing to walk into any store selling cameras, and will be confident that the advice offered by the salespeople will be independent, well founded, and in your best interests? ANY store?

Most stores these days are simply box shifters, and they don't give a damn about building a relationship with a customer. Where and if you find an exception, treasure it.

ATJ wrote:
Note that I'm not making any statements about the Cameras Direct being a good or bad retailer, I am simply suggesting you received a level of service that is your right to receive.

Sort of. I don't think CD aren't obliged to offer a 1 year warranty. I am pretty sure there would be something about consumer rights with a dead on arrival, but hardly the case here. So a warranty of that nature is not an automatic right with a parallel importer, AFAIK.

However, fair point about it being my right -- when you consider it's what they state up front, but then again do all parallel importers offer such a service and of those that do how many actually honour it? I'd certainly demand/expect it from a normal retailer as I'm paying the price. The way I see it this is the best of both worlds, discount price and a warranty.

It is a bit sad when we feel obliged to laud normal service though, but in today's world that's where we're at. Too many people looking for the absolute cheapest deal!!

ATJ wrote:

rmp wrote:Can't offer you any charts, surveys or graphs. Just knowing some people in retail businesses, watching discussions on forums like this, anecdotal at best. I'm most interested to be proven wrong however. Do you think the statement is incorrect?

I can't make a comment either way as I don't have any evidence. I must admit that I would be surprised to see many retailers stay in business for very long if they looked at the profit/loss of each transaction, but that is just my opinion and not something I would state as a fact.

<joke>OK, I'll be sure to put <opinion></opinion> around such opinions in future to differentiate them from <fact></fact>. Maybe I'll need <irony></irony> too....</joke>

anyway my evidence is enough for me to state it as a fact, and I'll gladly admit I'm wrong if proven incorrect. Wouldn't be the first time. There was this one occasion in 1981...

gstark wrote:Who amongst us here is willing to walk into any store selling cameras, and will be confident that the advice offered by the salespeople will be independent, well founded, and in your best interests? ANY store?

Most stores these days are simply box shifters, and they don't give a damn about building a relationship with a customer. Where and if you find an exception, treasure it.

True. The place for advice has shifted to places like this forum.

In a way you can't blame the retailers, if they could make a profit from having qualified staff they would presumably do so. Personally, I'm rarely after advice from a shop, I'm after good prices, quick service, quality products and a no-worries warranty. I will gladly pay a premium for that over the absolute rock-bottom boxshifter. Must say that CD, to continue the thread, aren't the cheapest I could find but they're close enough that I'll use them again, knowing the service will be there if I need it.

One anecdote does spring to mind; a while ago I was in an electronics shop, wanting to buy something, and the customer in front spent quite a bit of time getting advice from the salesguy, who did know his stuff. At the end of the conversation the customer pulled a printout of a website from his pocket and said "can you match that price". The salesguy said no, best I can do...and a haggle ensued. I just to had to interrupt and told the miserable beggar that he's just used a clear ten minutes of quality advice time, no postage needs to be paid, product instantly here no waiting and that's worth the extra the shop was asking so he should whip the plastic out and pay up. And he did. I wouldn't have had a problem if he had just asked for a price-match straight away.

rmp wrote:if they could make a profit from having qualified staff they would presumably do so.

thats assuming that they are capable of understanding the relationship between sales and customer service. unfortunately you and i know that they don;t in most occasions. most placs find it far easier to draw a relationship between wage rates and bottom line...so thats what they do.

Personally, I'm rarely after advice from a shop, I'm after good prices, quick service, quality products and a no-worries warranty. I will gladly pay a premium for that over the absolute rock-bottom boxshifter.

i have to admit, me too. there is far more info on the net if you take the time to look. so we are ideal grey market buyers. but there are times when i'd like to handle the product first hand, ask some questions etc. **IF** i was able to do that locally then i would pay a bit extra for that. but i cant. not anywhere. the ONLY place i have come remotely close to getting good service from people that know what they're doing is ECS.

i find D-D photo's position refreshing in that they are absolutely honest about what they do. they basically say, "look we offer stuff cheap...and thats it." you cant try the lens out, you can ask minimal questions, sometimes cant even see the product. i like that cos its clear. what i detest about camerahouse et al is they charge premium price, sprout about customer service but then you get there and they are a pack of morons. thats not only irritating, its bloody dishonest.

One anecdote does spring to mind; a while ago I was in an electronics shop, wanting to buy something, and the customer in front spent quite a bit of time getting advice from the salesguy, who did know his stuff. At the end of the conversation the customer pulled a printout of a website from his pocket and said "can you match that price". The salesguy said no, best I can do...and a haggle ensued. I just to had to interrupt and told the miserable beggar that he's just used a clear ten minutes of quality advice time, no postage needs to be paid, product instantly here no waiting and that's worth the extra the shop was asking so he should whip the plastic out and pay up. And he did. I wouldn't have had a problem if he had just asked for a price-match straight away.

agree but thats kinda human nature isnt it ? get as much as you can get for as little as possible.

gstark wrote:

ATJ wrote:

rmp wrote:The short-sighted retailers look on every transaction as a discrete profit or loss. The better ones look at the overall relationship with the person concerned and the wider effect of customer service on their reputation in general.

Do you have any evidence to support that statement?

I would have thought that this was common knowledge.

I will gladly shop where I receive good service - where I have built up an established relationship with knowledgeable salespeople - because of that relationship. One of the benefits that this relations should provide to me is that the salespeople should know more about the product that they're trying to sell me than I do. Thus they can support the sale.

Who amongst us here is willing to walk into any store selling cameras, and will be confident that the advice offered by the salespeople will be independent, well founded, and in your best interests? ANY store?

Most stores these days are simply box shifters, and they don't give a damn about building a relationship with a customer. Where and if you find an exception, treasure it.

Gary,

That's 2 different things. I very much agree that good service will promote repeat business, my question was related to the claim about retailers that look at each transaction as a discrete profit or loss. I believe very few would and if they do, they won't be in business long.

Now, box shifters tend to work off small margins and rely on volumes to make their profits. They would definitely not be looking at each discrete transaction but rather the volume of transactions.

rmp wrote:

ATJ wrote:
Note that I'm not making any statements about the Cameras Direct being a good or bad retailer, I am simply suggesting you received a level of service that is your right to receive.

Sort of. I don't think CD aren't obliged to offer a 1 year warranty. I am pretty sure there would be something about consumer rights with a dead on arrival, but hardly the case here. So a warranty of that nature is not an automatic right with a parallel importer, AFAIK.

I did not comment on the fact that they offered you a 1 year warranty, but rather that because they provided one, they are legally obliged to honour it. You knew before you made the transaction that the warranty was included and so (one would hope) your decision to buy from CD would have been influenced by that. It's all part of the buying decision.

I recently bought a Nikon 24-70 at $2150 with OZ Warranty (all benefits as above)...
I spent an hour and had a good chat, played with other few lenses etc etc etc.
Now if you check around you will pay same money or just 1 dollar less to get not benefits.
Thats for me Pro as for anyone else!

D3 $5850 after cash back....from OS aprox $5000 with the risk of surplus taxes, import shipment......
I cn go thre
So local it's not always that bad.

In one thing I'm not happy with the Warranty here that it's just for one year.
In many country in Europe is for 2 or even 3 years.
For pro users is just one year...fair enough.....

I'm not saying just support local but I'm saying if you can afford your product and have a good quality service why risk couple hundred .
I agree, competition is a great when is put on the mrket scale...it will create a great balance.
But...
As I said behind local there is our economy, behind grey sometime there is overexploitation of human resources.
Competition is good but globalisation is not.
What we care is save bucks but what we don't care if someone here or OS is loosing job or human rights to let us save few bucks.
Extreme example,
I've Been in east Europe few yrs ago in a big car factory (from a "civilised" european country) reporting with journalist and others about condition that let us buying cheapest cars.....
All the "life" benefits that westerner where having on their job for them was just a dream. Basically a good job for many but not rights and when they where over.... a kick in their ass and..... next one.
So to cut short basically I was buying a cheapest car using their security service money and at the end someone was paying for me my extra backs saved for my car!

ATJ wrote:

gstark wrote:

ATJ wrote:

rmp wrote:The short-sighted retailers look on every transaction as a discrete profit or loss. The better ones look at the overall relationship with the person concerned and the wider effect of customer service on their reputation in general.

Do you have any evidence to support that statement?

I would have thought that this was common knowledge.

I will gladly shop where I receive good service - where I have built up an established relationship with knowledgeable salespeople - because of that relationship. One of the benefits that this relations should provide to me is that the salespeople should know more about the product that they're trying to sell me than I do. Thus they can support the sale.

Who amongst us here is willing to walk into any store selling cameras, and will be confident that the advice offered by the salespeople will be independent, well founded, and in your best interests? ANY store?

Most stores these days are simply box shifters, and they don't give a damn about building a relationship with a customer. Where and if you find an exception, treasure it.

Gary,

That's 2 different things.

I don't accept that. The two are intimately related. Incestuously so.

I very much agree that good service will promote repeat business, my question was related to the claim about retailers that look at each transaction as a discrete profit or loss. I believe very few would and if they do, they won't be in business long.

You're presuming too that customers want to have good service. Most wouldn't know good service if it smacked them in the head. And that's the gist of the start of this thread, isn't it? Without wanting to insult or disrespect anyone, we have one person is lauding the service he received as being good to exceptional, whist another is suggesting that what he received was merely what his legal entitlement was.

I would respectfully suggest that good to exceptional service is the minimum we should be accepting as the standard, and that is what suppliers, be they box shifters or your local Benz stealership, should be striving to provide. Bugger the "she'll be right" attitude: it's simply not good enough. Never has been, and never will be.

So ... customers need to be prepared to NOT accept a shitty level of service (how many times have I seen people NOT complain when they're treated like shit?) and shops and service providers need to learn that their customers do not exist for their convenience.

Now, box shifters tend to work off small margins and rely on volumes to make their profits. They would definitely not be looking at each discrete transaction but rather the volume of transactions.

And how many places that sell photographic equipment would you not classify as box shifters? I can think of zero in the Sydney CBD.

Jeko70 wrote:I recently bought a Nikon 24-70 at $2150 with OZ Warranty (all benefits as above)...
I spent an hour and had a good chat, played with other few lenses etc etc etc.
Now if you check around you will pay same money or just 1 dollar less to get not benefits.

And the benefits with a Nikon Oz warranty would be ???

Last time we took something in for a Nikon Oz warranty, the quoted one week turnaround became a six week repair job because, apparently,
Nikon Oz had no bloody parts.

Fat lot of good that did us!

And the complaint to Nikon Oz fell upon deaf, arrogant, couldn't give a damn ears. Talk about not wanting to build a long term relationship.

So local it's not always that bad.

If they have anything in stock! Australia is a mere pimple on the bum of Nikon's worldwide distribution network. Nikon Oz have confirmed to me that they have no say in what they get from Nikon; they take what they are given.

In one thing I'm not happy with the Warranty here that it's just for one year.
In many country in Europe is for 2 or even 3 years.

And Nikon glass n the US gets a three year warranty. Again, Nikon Oz treats like we're idiots.

I'm not saying just support local but I'm saying if you can afford your product and have a good quality service why risk couple hundred

I couldn't agree more.

But I do not see any evidence of good quality local service. That's where your argument falls apart, I'm afraid. Again, good quality should be the norm, it should be standard, and we should not be paying a king's ransom for it.

gstark wrote:I would respectfully suggest that good to exceptional service is the minimum we should be accepting as the standard, and that is what suppliers, be they box shifters or your local Benz stealership, should be striving to provide.

Which is the point I have been making. A retailer that honours a warranty they have provided is nothing special and is the bare minimum.

gstark wrote:

Jeko70 wrote:I recently bought a Nikon 24-70 at $2150 with OZ Warranty (all benefits as above)...
I spent an hour and had a good chat, played with other few lenses etc etc etc.
Now if you check around you will pay same money or just 1 dollar less to get not benefits.

And the benefits with a Nikon Oz warranty would be ???

I've played with gears so i know what I'm buying.
If it a bad unit and has to be serviced....I can borrow another one from them (I know is NPS service but to me is included in that price paid)

Last time we took something in for a Nikon Oz warranty, the quoted one week turnaround became a six week repair job because, apparently,
Nikon Oz had no bloody parts.

It' happening ll around the world.
And grey is not any better, If you considering grey is at least 3-6 weeks waiting , and It's not sure that they have a spare part too.

If they have anything in stock! Australia is a mere pimple on the bum of Nikon's worldwide distribution network. Nikon Oz have confirmed to me that they have no say in what they get from Nikon; they take what they are given.

That's Australia mate!
I'm sorry but we are out of the world and not just with Nikon gears.
So it's not a Nikon fault

And Nikon glass n the US gets a three year warranty. Again, Nikon Oz treats like we're idiots.

I Agree!

But I do not see any evidence of good quality local service. That's where your argument falls apart, I'm afraid. Again, good quality should be the norm, it should be standard, and we should not be paying a king's ransom for it.

Good quality for me is a reseller providing me with service and a Nikon service providing me with assistance (I repeat I'm an NPS and I'm happy)
....Cash back..... is nothing compared to Grey price (not all the time.... sometime is better) but it's still something!
If you go to ECS they have a D300, D3, D80, 24-70 etc etc to play with before you buy it.
ECS Nikon 24-70 $2150 grey $2149...I've played a lot with it before purchasing so that's good quality and for just one dollar!
You can trade in your stuff if you want. Grey you choose it, pay it, and that's it!
That's what I pay for local market and I'm happy to support Australian economy.
They might be deaf but I can complying with someone if the repair is not been properly done.
Grey I send it I get it back and if not fixed I have to send back explaining what is and what was wrong..... and your day never ending....and your equipment is not into your hands.
And trust me it's happened and happening.
So is that a good service?

I'm not trying to convince anyone.
Everyone is free to buy whenever they want and choose how and where spend their own money.
But for my personal experience services somewhere "out there" is even worse! Did I mentioned Italy?

Jeko70 wrote:ECS Nikon 24-70 $2150 grey $2149...I've played a lot with it before purchasing so that's good quality and for just one dollar!
You can trade in your stuff if you want. Grey you choose it, pay it, and that's it!

true, some products the price is comparable, but others are VASTLY different. its up to the consumer to do their homework.

eg: 17-55/2.8 is $2095vs$1589
there are far more examples of overpriced then there is comparable priced. and keep in mind, you go to Ted's or anything like that and its 20% plus on top of ECS prices.

Jeko70 wrote:

gstark wrote:

Jeko70 wrote:I recently bought a Nikon 24-70 at $2150 with OZ Warranty (all benefits as above)...
I spent an hour and had a good chat, played with other few lenses etc etc etc.
Now if you check around you will pay same money or just 1 dollar less to get not benefits.

And the benefits with a Nikon Oz warranty would be ???

I've played with gears so i know what I'm buying.

You're suggesting something different for me?

If it a bad unit and has to be serviced....I can borrow another one from them (I know is NPS service but to me is included in that price paid)

No. You have paid extra for that so-called service. A hell of a lot extra. That is your choice.

When I get my car serviced, I get a loaner. At no cost to me. THAT is what service is all about.

Last time we took something in for a Nikon Oz warranty, the quoted one week turnaround became a six week repair job because, apparently,
Nikon Oz had no bloody parts.

It' happening ll around the world.

In terms of spare parts supply? I doubt that you know that, and I I know that I don't know that.

What I do know is that Nikon USA is a large market.

What I do know is that Nikon HKG is a large market.

What I do know is that Nikon Oz is not a market at all.

To whom do you think Nikon JP will issue a supply of spares to as a priority? I know who it is not going to be.

And grey is not any better, If you considering grey is at least 3-6 weeks waiting , and It's not sure that they have a spare part too.

I can have a body for repair into a HKG repairer in a couple of days. I have heard of bodies taking up to two weeks to get from a local store to Nikon's local repair contractor. And I know where I stand a better chance of finding a supply of spares.

[quote

If they have anything in stock! Australia is a mere pimple on the bum of Nikon's worldwide distribution network. Nikon Oz have confirmed to me that they have no say in what they get from Nikon; they take what they are given.

That's Australia mate!
I'm sorry but we are out of the world and not just with Nikon gears.
So it's not a Nikon fault
[/quote]

Actually, it is Nikon's fault. They treat Us like we don't exist.

But I do not see any evidence of good quality local service. That's where your argument falls apart, I'm afraid. Again, good quality should be the norm, it should be standard, and we should not be paying a king's ransom for it.

Good quality for me is a reseller providing me with service and a Nikon service providing me with assistance (I repeat I'm an NPS and I'm happy)

But again, you are paying - a hell of a fucking lot of money - for what you should be getting as a part of the basic package. You are, after all, what is laughing referred to as a customer. Why in the world should you pay more money to get the service that you should be getting as a bloody customer?

You are already a customer; you have already paid them. Why are you paying them again?

....Cash back..... is nothing compared to Grey price

Cash back is actually bullshit marketing.

If they can afford to give you cash back, then why the hell don't they just reduce the bloody price of the product by the value of the cash back? That makes less than no sense to me at all: it costs you money and time to deal with the cashback bullshit paperwork, and it costs them money and time to deal with their end of the same bullshit.

It would be cheaper for all, and more efficient, to just simply reduce the price of the product and be done with it.

And then, as you say, it's still going to cost more than grey. They're a bunch of incompetent fools, and by raising this aspect of the argument you are only making them look even less competent than I already believe them to be.

Hell, at their recent official announcement for the D700, I had all of the information about what was released before they had made the announcement at their presentation lunch. What's the point of an official announcement presentation when they have nothing to announce?

If you go to ECS they have a D300, D3, D80, 24-70 etc etc to play with before you buy it.

I can do that at Paxtons, Teds, Fletchers, and a whole gaggle of other stores too. If I want extra laughs, I'll go to Georges and ask them for a price. Or I can go to one of our minimeets, where there will be all of that gear, and probably a whole lot more.

That's what I pay for local market and I'm happy to support Australian economy.

And you should be proud that you're doing this. I too support the Australian economy.

But only where it deserves support.

I'm not trying to convince anyone.

Oh yes you are. If you're not, then why are you writing all of this?

But for my personal experience services somewhere "out there" is even worse! Did I mentioned Italy?

But Italy has other benefits. Reggianno and Le Cinque Terre to name but two.

gstark wrote:Cash back is actually bullshit marketing.

If they can afford to give you cash back, then why the hell don't they just reduce the bloody price of the product by the value of the cash back? That makes less than no sense to me at all: it costs you money and time to deal with the cashback bullshit paperwork, and it costs them money and time to deal with their end of the same bullshit.

It took me over 6 months and multiple emails and telephone calls to get my "cash back" when I bought my D70. This is the wonderful "service" I got from Nikon Australia and I was even a Nikon Club Australia member at the time - which is maybe why I got the "cash back" as "quickly" as I did. If I hadn't been a member, I'd probably still be waiting.

ATJ wrote:

gstark wrote:Cash back is actually bullshit marketing.

If they can afford to give you cash back, then why the hell don't they just reduce the bloody price of the product by the value of the cash back? That makes less than no sense to me at all: it costs you money and time to deal with the cashback bullshit paperwork, and it costs them money and time to deal with their end of the same bullshit.

It took me over 6 months and multiple emails and telephone calls to get my "cash back" when I bought my D70. This is the wonderful "service" I got from Nikon Australia and I was even a Nikon Club Australia member at the time - which is maybe why I got the "cash back" as "quickly" as I did. If I hadn't been a member, I'd probably still be waiting.

Which means the minimum expected standard hasn't been met, and so it's kind of sad when we have to praise companies for actually doing the minimum as so many just don't! But ultimately the consumer must shoulder at least some of the blame.

CD's service was not exceptionally good, but acceptable. The main point of the post is that I wanted to let everyone know that there is at least one parallel importer who can be relied on, at least on my experience thus far. I mean, when you hand over the money there must be a little voice in the back of your head thinking "hope I get the goods, hope nothing goes wrong".

Good to hear that you got a good result from a parallel importer. That's been my main fear of using them, although I used DDphoto without knowing that they were parallels!

this may be slightly off topic, but maybe it shows how markets are treated differently.
was researching nikon binoculars ( nikon monarch atb 8x42 ) for my daughter in uk for bird watching ( big thing over there )

US price $250 + shipping

UK price 200 pounds + shipping

OZ price $650 !!! + shipping

same bins made in japan life time warranty

SHIT !!!!

Also a bit off topic, but I'm in the process of getting a macro lens for my new K20D. Thanks to reading the forums here, I've decided on the Sigma 105mm f/2.8.

Now the cheapest 'kosher' dealer price I've found is $748 from DCW. A quick 'Google' of the lens shows the 'Grey' brigade offering it from $420 odd. I can get it delivered to my door from the USA for $A450.00 with a 1 year International Warranty (whatever that is) from BH Photovideo.

Somebody is making big globs of money out of us downunders !! The RRP in the States is about $US550.

I've gone the C R Kennedy 'price match route' and am waiting for an answer.

I hate getting ripped off !!!!!!!!!!

Will post the outcome.

trublubiker

I have made several large purchases from Cameras Direct, and found them to be very good. They answer the phone straightway, and are happy to discuss purchases/products with you, in person. I have only availed myself of their return service once and it was fine, (although it was only a battery).

Just an unbiased plug here.

trublubiker wrote:Also a bit off topic, but I'm in the process of getting a macro lens for my new K20D. Thanks to reading the forums here, I've decided on the Sigma 105mm f/2.8.

Now the cheapest 'kosher' dealer price I've found is $748 from DCW. A quick 'Google' of the lens shows the 'Grey' brigade offering it from $420 odd. I can get it delivered to my door from the USA for $A450.00 with a 1 year International Warranty (whatever that is) from BH Photovideo.

Somebody is making big globs of money out of us downunders !! The RRP in the States is about $US550.

I've gone the C R Kennedy 'price match route' and am waiting for an answer.

I hate getting ripped off !!!!!!!!!!

Will post the outcome.

trublubiker

Digital Camera Warehouse, through C R Kennedy, have matched the cheapest 'Grey' price of $451.69, delivered.
That's a saving of almost $300 and has the full Pentax warranty.

Should arrive early next week. Can't wait to put it on the K20D and go out to play.

Now for a tele photo !!!!!!!

Cheers

trublubiker

trublubiker wrote:Somebody is making big globs of money out of us downunders !! The RRP in the States is about $US550.

Indeed. I will extend the benefit of the doubt, but I struggle to understand why AU retail prices are so much more than overseas.

I wouldn't mind paying the difference if I could see the value. We've disposed of the warranty question in this thread, and the grey stuff I've bought has had English manuals and Australian power adapters.

I've posted this bit of information elsewhere once before, but here it is again

If you are after a Sigma lens, then find the cheapest grey importer price you can, and contact Sigma Australia (C.R. Kennedys). They will match that price, inclusive of postage, and then you get the full warranty also.

Could save you a few dollars in the long run.

Of course, we wont see Nikon or Canon doing the same thing.