Older Flash Units

[Alpha_7]

Hi I've been addicted to reading http://strobist.blogspot.com/ since it was posted earlier this week and it's got me considering things or at least flashes in a whole new light (sorry ). Um, so I was wondering how many users out there still use older flash units, how they find them and if they would recommend getting say a SB-26 or SB-80 over buying a newer more expensive SB-600 or SB-800 ? I'm starting to realise, or least I feel from what I've been reading that the 800 and probably even the 600 have a whole heap of bells and whistles that I don't need most or nearly all of the time. The money I could save by buying a cheaper second flash could go towards all sorts of other gear (umbrellas, softboxes, backdrops, lenses etc)

[losfp]

From the little I know about it, I think the older units don't have the ability to use TTL or iTTL... It might not be as easy to simply stick them on the hotshoe and fire away on auto. I think the older flashes would be a pretty good bet for remote units etc

But don't quote me!

[macka]

It's fun, isn't it Craig? I've been reading it this week as well.

The older flashes don't have compatible metering. They would definately still be useful to have, though, as off-camera flashes.

[Alpha_7]

Yeah my thought was to use them as off camera slaves.

[gstark]

Craig,

There's quite a lot to be said for simple, "traditional" A mode flash, where the strobe simply measures the reflected output from the subject, and based upon an entered power setting, (often expressed as an aperture @ ISO rating) turns itself off when it deems that the correct amount of light has been output.

That sort of methodology has been around for years, is easy to understand and implement, and while you might need a light/flash meter, these days you can use your histogram to determine the exposure adjustments required.

If you can't start getting good, reliable exposures within three or four test exposures, then you should probably consider another hobby.

[gstark]

Macka,

With many of the flash units, the metering may well be compatible at some levels, biut the reality is that it's of lesser importance than you might at first think.

[jerrysk8]

almost all skateboard (and other action sports for that matter) photogs use vivitar 285hv's and sunpak 555's and 544's which are all pretty old flashes. why these flashes? well they're very cheap, have totally manual settings, very high guide numbers and very short flash durations at hi power.

if your trying to get a home studio going, you don't need ttl, just get a light meter.

[macka]

Gary, I haven't really had a proper play with flashes yet (ours is still on the way from Birdy) so I'm a total newbie to flash in general.

But, I was under the impression that, if you do want to let the flash adjust it's output based on your camera's metering, it does a pretty good job of it. Is that right?

[rokkstar]

Craig,

I've been playing with two flashes now for a while and barely ever use the iTTL function. Flashes are always off camera, set manually.
Take a shot, examine histogram, retake. Works well for me. In that regard, although the 800 and 600 are fantastic units, I think the 26/28 are still well worth an investment.

Fancy getting together and having a studio play sometime mate - we could learn off each other.

[gstark]

But, I was under the impression that, if you do want to let the flash adjust it's output based on your camera's metering, it does a pretty good job of it. Is that right?

Macka,

Yes, but it also does a pretty good job using its own metering.

In fact, I could mount a pretty good argument against TTL flash:

Consider that you may be using a flash that might have a set of power output adjustments. Or it may just have a fixed power output.

The point is that you have a light source with a predetermined level of output. Thus, you have a fixed and known amount of light available for your images. Regardless of your subject, your light, and thus your exposure, is no longer a variable.

Once you have determined the appropriate exposure settings for that circumstance, the is little to be gained by further metering, and in all honesty, given different reflectivities from different subjects (dark vs light, for instance) any further metering may well be to the detriment of your exposure, rather than to its advantage.

It's all circumstantial, of course, and flexibility always needs to be maintained. But if you take a bit of time to learn about light and to learn how to use flash heads and the like, then you simply have a greater array of tools at your disposal to use as you see fit.

[gstark]

if your trying to get a home studio going, you don't need ttl, just get a light meter.

Jerry,

While I don't disagree - make sure it has flash metering capabilities - you can get away with just your histogram, which is the modern day equivalent of dropping a Polaroid back onto your Bronny (or whatever).

[macka]

Ok. Something to think about. Thanks, Gary.

[gooseberry]

Auto mode (A mode on the flash) on the Nikon flashes are pretty accurate (in fact I know a number of canon users who use a nikon flash in A mode on their cameras 'cos they get more consistent results than using canon flashes in TTL mode). The only downside for using the older Nikon flashes on the newer consumer/semi-pro bodies (D50, D70/s, D200) is that you don't get AA (Auto Aperture) mode, just A mode. The difference ? in A mode, you have to set the ISO, aperture setting and zoom head position on the flash manually, whereas in AA mode all these settings are transferred automatically by the body.

[birddog114]

Craig,
As most of above poster said, I didn't use much iTTL or TTL but I used manual mode with my SB800s.

Also have a brand new METZ 45CL, used about 3 times + SB26, I can create a good lighting system with these two and my 4 x SB800.

Again I also own two Sekonic Light meters: L-558 & L-358 with Pocket wizard modules installed, these Sekonics guide me thru all the hardest metering situations which I don't think the metering system in the camera will give me the accurately reading as I wished.

Get the SB26/ 28 and play with manual setting, you'll learn heaps

[O1]

Craig
Dito !!

I have been doing exactly the same and am fascinated by it all.
The strobist site nails it and I am enjoying reading it very much.
I have an SB 24 that has come out of the draw and I am keeping my eye out for another as they are very cheap.
Another area of knowledge that is required for the next steps to taking great pics.

Cheers

Owen

[birddog114]

O1,
New or old flash will work regardless what brand you have.
If you know how and can afford to spend money then you can buy some old Canon, Sigma, Vivitar flashes at one of the Sunday Markets + other bits & pieces, and creating a [perfect lighting system.
I have seen a studio, the photographer uses the old bits from his collection.

Yes, there're wireless remote, PW, wired system are available and you can DIY.

[beetleboy]

I completely agree with you Gary (and birddog!)..

I think units like the SB800 and SB600 are fantastic for on-camera flash as far as reliability and ease of use but for off camera it makes much more sense to use Manual or A modes (or AA or whatever does it for ya!) which are available on cheaper/older models.

I'm all for portable lighting and can't stand the cables of our bowens traveller kit at work. I was shooting a Speed Master process printer at the back of a printshop and (surprisingly) it was impossible to find powerpoints to plug in the 3 bowens heads..I ended up with extension cables all over the place which are difficult to move my lights around as needed. I'm leaning towards the high-powered battery systems like Alien Bees (for example) or even just big heads like Metz/Vivitar etc with a power pack. Flexibility baby yeh!

[jerrysk8]

if your trying to get a home studio going, you don't need ttl, just get a light meter.

Jerry,

While I don't disagree - make sure it has flash metering capabilities - you can get away with just your histogram, which is the modern day equivalent of dropping a Polaroid back onto your Bronny (or whatever).

of course. i thought that was a given considering we're talking about flashes. pretty much all digi lightmeters have flash metering capabilities. i have an l-358 with the pw chip and totally rely on it. i'll use digi for shooting seq's and to check if my flashes are setup/positioned right and sometimes to check the histogram but i'll usually just rely on my lightmeter on getting it right.

hey beetleboy, check out some sunpak or metz handlemounts or even better get some quantum qflashes. i love mine.

[Alpha_7]

Still flash related but I bought one of these last week.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... _Stores_IT

To use the ends to add to my trigger circuit... um, is there more then one size of the "plug / socket" for flashes ? Just this seems smaller then I recall the SB-800 interface being... have I stuffed up ?

I'll know when I get home I guess.