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I have two lens, one is the kit lens 18-55mm and the other is 70-300mm. I'm struggling at trying to get a grasp on distance from the subject etc to get a nice clear focus. I'm madly out the backyard clicking at everything not nailed down to try and get a handle on it. I have a dog show to photograph at tomorrow, and I'm thinking of cheating and just taking my old beasty.

I've managed to get some nice up close portrait work, but dont ask me how I managed it!

Hi, and welcome.

What are having trouble with? I'm not sure I understand the problem yet.

Are you concerned about actual camera to subject distance, or merely the minimum focus distance?

On your camera, usually along the top, there will be a small Plimsol line sort of marking: that shows you where your camera's focal focal plane is, and this means that, no matter what lens you're using, it is the subject to that point that is the critical distance for focussing.

That said, there's a great many factors that come into play when we're discussing focus; the lens aperture setting affects apparent focus, the shutter speed selected may affect apparent sharpness (not quite the same thing) and if you're too close with any given lens, then the lens cannot focus anyway.

Let's see if we can better understand where you're coming from, so that we can better help you get some sparkling images.

Sunnylass, without examples or any shooting information at all it is really hard to guess what is not going right. Feel free to post examples, no one will be too critical. That said, I am not sure which mode or f stop you are using. Try Aperture priority and set F8 as your aperture. That should give a reasonable depth of field (distance forward and back from your focal point which is in focus). Really though, without examples we could make 100 guesses and not solve your problem.

Good luck at the dog show

Ok short of sounding like a complete idiot here goes.

Firstly the K.I.S.S theory works extremely well for me. I am one of those people where practical works much better than theory for me. I've been researching websites etc on lenses, focal points, etc blah blah blah and after awhile I get this blank stare happening.

I understand aperature, shutter speed etc and realise that bumping the ISO up will change the outcome of the image.

What I dont understand, at all, is what the 18-55mm on the small kit lens means, and the 70-300mm on the big lens means.

I realise that the telephoto lens will give me a narrow field to work with, and that the small kit lens will give me a wider field to work with. (see I've been doing my homework)

Say for example I am photographing a handler and their dog. Do I use the kit lens, or the telephoto. And having said that, if I use the kit lens, how far back do I stand, do I put the camera on the macro setting?

I've done dog shows before, plenty of them and have had no problems getting work from it, but that was with my old beast. And I can't be a girly and continue using the old beast when I have a fabulous new toy to work with!

So, keep the K.I.S.S theory in mind, and if you think you can explain it in terms I can understand, I would be eternally grateful.

It's very simple.

Look through the viewfinder. If you're a comfortable distance away and you see what you want to see in the viewfinder, then you've got the right lens on

In general, you would use a wide angle for a wide shot, landscapes etc etc.. and a telephoto for shots where you want to zoom right into something - ie: sports etc.

For a dog show, I would assume you are not able to get right up in people's (and dogs') faces. So I would tend towards the telephoto lens so that you can stand back further.

If it were THAT simple, I would be out there clicking away with no hassles.

Define comfortable distance. See what I mean?

Hmm maybe I'll just play it safe tomorrow and take the old toy.

sunnylass wrote:Hmm maybe I'll just play it safe tomorrow and take the old toy.

Take both.

That way you will be able to see how your new relates to your old.

Slightly OT : But what was your old Beasty. (A point and shot perhaps ?)


Des (losfp) was right, its all bout what you want to see through the view finder but let me give you a few very simple examples.


You and your camera are 3 metres away from the Dog and owner. If you want them both completely in the photo you need a Wide Angle, so somewhere in the 18-24 ish area of the 18-55 kit lens.

At the other extreme if you are 100 metres away, then with your own eyes they are small and lack detail, this is when you would use the 70-300 to "zoom" in on the action and capture it closer up.

If the distance is somewhere in between the two extremes then you have to consider if you want full length shots or head shots, etc as they will affect essentiall how close you want to zoom with the lens to get that framing.

Did that help to make it any clearer ?

What is your old toy?

I wouldn't have thought it'd be that difficult to snap away with the old camera... then seeing what lens allows you to maintain that same distance

I think basically the trick is to realise that there ARE no rules. You can take a portrait of someone from 1m away, 5m away, 25m away or 100m away.

Definitely take both cameras. Start off with the old one, and snap off as normal. It should then be an easy task to swap over (without moving from that same spot) and seeing which lens allows you to frame the shot in the same way.

sunnylass wrote:If it were THAT simple, I would be out there clicking away with no hassles.

Define comfortable distance. See what I mean?

Hmm maybe I'll just play it safe tomorrow and take the old toy.

Comfortable distance is the distance at which the subject appears large enough to your eye in the view finder.

Much like with a point and shoot, you zoom until the person and dog are big enough, same here. Zoom in until it is big enough. If the 18-55 doesn't get big enough, try the 70-300. Bigger numbers = bigger subject in the photo at same distance.

Alpha_7 wrote:Slightly OT : But what was your old Beasty. (A point and shot perhaps ?)


You and your camera are 3 metres away from the Dog and owner. If you want them both completely in the photo you need a Wide Angle, so somewhere in the 18-24 ish area of the 18-55 kit lens.

At the other extreme if you are 100 metres away, then with your own eyes they are small and lack detail, this is when you would use the 70-300 to "zoom" in on the action and capture it closer up.

If the distance is somewhere in between the two extremes then you have to consider if you want full length shots or head shots, etc as they will affect essentiall how close you want to zoom with the lens to get that framing.

Did that help to make it any clearer ?

Yes that makes it nice and clear. Thank you. Now I just need to work out aperature etc and I'm going to feel a lot more confident with using the new one.

My old baby is a Sony DSC F707. Takes beautiful pics, just can't cope with the areas I want to venture into, ie fast action work with dogs etc. I'm being offered the work, but havent been able to accept it up until getting the new toy.

dawesy wrote:Comfortable distance is the distance at which the subject appears large enough to your eye in the view finder.

Much like with a point and shoot, you zoom until the person and dog are big enough, same here. Zoom in until it is big enough. If the 18-55 doesn't get big enough, try the 70-300. Bigger numbers = bigger subject in the photo at same distance.

Thank you dawesy, I understand that too. I'm really not a stupid person, I just need it explained in very simple terms LOLOL.

sunnylass wrote:
Thank you dawesy, I understand that too. I'm really not a stupid person, I just need it explained in very simple terms LOLOL.

No worries. Try not to let all the numbers freak you out!!

As for aperture etc, if you're not confident with it yet (as I wasn't when I started this) try using the program modes on the camera and let it figure it out. I don't know the camera specifically but I suspect it will have an action mode you can use if they're on the move and a portrait one if they're still.

Then you can look at the settings it picked when you look at the photos and try to get a feel for what works and what doesn't.

Cheers, and keep shooting!

sunnylass wrote:My old baby is a Sony DSC F707.

Okay, now we have something to compare with!

If we convert that camera's lens zoom range to 35mm equivalent so we can compare it to your 2 new lenses... it is equivalent to 38-190mm

With your new lenses, the 18-55 is equivalent to 27-82mm and the 70-300 is equivalent to 105-450mm.

So what does this mean? The focal length here relates directly to how much "zoom" the lens is capable of displaying. So as you can see the 18-55 can go wider than your old camera, but not as long. Opposite for the 70-300, it can go MUCH longer than your old F707, but can't go as wide.

So for a shot where you used to zoom in quite alot with your old camera, you'd probably use the 70-300. Make sense?

If I could reach through the monitor and give you all a big squishy hug, I would.

Thank you for making me feel like less of an idiot

One more question.

I dont have a macro lens for my Canon 400D, so I'm assuming I don't use the macro setting on the camera unless I have a macro lens?

macro is a lens feature and not a camera feature, so you're correct, you need a macro lens to play macro

Hi Sunnylass,

I smashed this doc together a while back for my own use, but have cobbled together a section at the bottom of the page just for you .

http://home.exetel.com.au/mattc/MiscDoc ... ulator.xls

Hope it helps.

Cheers

Matt

What a sweety you are Matt, thank you.

I like this explanation of it

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read. ... e=23512250

Yes, don't worry too much about all those numbers and equivalents etc, the actual focal length is not really relevant, framing your subject well is whats important. The camera will record the actual focal length in the EXIF data with the image, so you can go and check back through that later on and get a feel for what it all means.
The 70-300 mm can be useful when you want to take reasonably close up images without being in peoples (or dogs) faces, you can work from a distance where your presence isnt intrusive. You can sometimes get more natural poses this way.

Just checked your profile, and I have to admit I have been very bad lately hehehe

 LOL what can I say, I'm a sucker for bad men.

Shoot at whatever distance and view you are most comfortable with at which you see in the viewfinder. Dont try to get all these types of technical junks into your mind on the starting points. They slowly slip into your mind as time goes on.

Things can go real close with wide angles, and photographing at this distance, I'm not sure if I will call it "comfortable"

I had a friend turn up this afternoon and he became my test subject, along with my dogs

Yi-P wrote:Shoot at whatever distance and view you are most comfortable with at which you see in the viewfinder. Dont try to get all these types of technical junks into your mind on the starting points. They slowly slip into your mind as time goes on.

Things can go real close with wide angles, and photographing at this distance, I'm not sure if I will call it "comfortable"

I want to see the result

adam wrote:

Yi-P wrote:Shoot at whatever distance and view you are most comfortable with at which you see in the viewfinder. Dont try to get all these types of technical junks into your mind on the starting points. They slowly slip into your mind as time goes on.

Things can go real close with wide angles, and photographing at this distance, I'm not sure if I will call it "comfortable"

I want to see the result

ten bucks says you'll be able to see his whole face, and then some.

i'm pretty sure thats a 10.5mm fish... i call it a death lense... there have been many times i've used it (and ive only had it for a few weeks) where i thought i was gonna die, being too close to riders!

jamesw wrote:

adam wrote:

Yi-P wrote:Shoot at whatever distance and view you are most comfortable with at which you see in the viewfinder. Dont try to get all these types of technical junks into your mind on the starting points. They slowly slip into your mind as time goes on.

Things can go real close with wide angles, and photographing at this distance, I'm not sure if I will call it "comfortable"

I want to see the result

ten bucks says you'll be able to see his whole face, and then some.

i'm pretty sure thats a 10.5mm fish... i call it a death lense... there have been many times i've used it (and ive only had it for a few weeks) where i thought i was gonna die, being too close to riders!

You seem confident about the answer that you are willing ot put 10 bucks behind it! Sorry, not enough money to bet! Saving up for more gear! horhor

sunnylass wrote:LOL what can I say, I'm a sucker for bad men.

You're in deep shit here, then.

Fast cars too ... hmmmm ....

sunnylass wrote:LOL what can I say, I'm a sucker for bad men.

And there is only one way us bad men can interpret that comment.