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Hi all,

I have offered to take a couple of group photos for a series of weekend events that I am involved in. Just wandering if anyone has got any tips for taking group photos.

To give you some information about the setup ...

Melbourne. Middle of July ... more than likely raining, so probably inside, although if the weather is nice we could go outside.

About 60 people per photoshoot (I have a 1 each for 2 weekends).

Previously the group photos have been taken over 4-5 rows:
Back row standing on chairs,
Next row standing on the ground
next row sitting on chairs
first row sitting on the ground.

I have the equipment in my signature below.

I would love some advice over the lense that would suit the job best, potential settings for camera etc? Should I try and borrow some off camera flash(es), and if so how should I position it(them).

Thanks

Russell,
The best piece of advice I can give you for a 60 person shoot, is to take an assistant (or two) to help co ordinate this. People need direction, this many people need budging (nearly!).
I'd suggest to go outside if at all possible.
If outside, then time of day is crucial, I would suggest mid/late afternoon. Cloudy day would be perfect. If cloudy, then use the cloudy WB option on your camera. You'll need a middle of the range aperture of say >F5 for a good DOF. Tripod essential. Take time to organise the crowd (again - assistant or two would be great, preferably with loud/assertive/friendly voices. Tell the crowd you need to take a few 'test' shots, and examine your histogram and the exposure values etc. Bracket if necessary.
I'd just a focal length on the wider side...around 12-20mm if you can. I think the 18-135 would be ok, but perhaps the 50mm if you can get far enough back (could be problematic indoors).
As far as bouncing flashes etc - if indoors then possibly yes, but if you can do this outside I think you're a lot better off! Pray for fine weather!

Good luck and let us know how u get on, and show us your pics??

Hi Russell,

Google a few images of football teams. like this one..

[url]http://www.fitchfalcons.com/images/Team%20Photos/Fall%202006/Freshman%20Football%[/url]


With 60 people, four rows, are 15 wide, so you are going to need some width, unless you have list of room to stand back (as geoff said, 12-20mm so maybe your 18mm+).

Note in the above pic, the sun is behind them, providing a nice "rim light" or hairlight, providing nice seperation to the background.

Adding some height to your camera position, can help to get the rows a little more perpendicular to you so all the heads are in proportion across the rows (but high up is now easy to use a tripod).

If you shoot into the sun, you will need some fill flash. Dont know how the SB800's would go in this, set wide, they may not provide much fill (others can post expereince there).

dependig on your timing and location, I may be avaialbl eto assist as an "usher".

time of day would be key. What quality level do you need, what are these going to be used for?

overcast may not need fill flash. ANother posibility, may be to lay a bright sheet down in front of the group (perhaps 3 bedsheets), which might bounce enough light from the sky to fill under chins, eye sockets, noses...

I would strongly advise against shooting into the sun. You can lose contrast, detail and colour even if you are extremely careful. Also avoid broken light such as that found under trees etc. If you face the group and hold your arms out (make yourself like a cross) then the sun coming from anywhere between your hands and you elbow is good. The SB800 will easily fill a group of 60 at around F5.6 if you shoot with a wide angle lens and have the group arranged into 4 rows of 15. Focus on detail in the second row and choose a background that is uncluttered. If it's a cloudy day then luck has smiled on you because lthe ighting is much softer. Push the group tightly together so that no light comes from between the bodies. Tell them to brace up and puff themselves out a little to get a more dynamic image. Good luck however you do it!

I'm about to do same amount of people shot tonight, probably about 70 inside a restaurant (and at night)... Hopefully I can get to use the main stairs for this, otherwise... I'll have to work something else on the spot...
I'll keep couple of good advises here in mind for tonight

ive never done groups more than 10 but i think ive picked up some valuable advice here. thanks to all

goodluck with the shoot Russell. having assistance is definitely recommended and as other have also suggested, the 18mm on your 18-135 would be your best choice

a little off topic, but ive always been a little baffled about using >1 SB800 (wirelessly triggered).
is there a general rule for adjusting the head's zoom setting or should i leave it at its widest or adjust according to focal length? as with the focal length, do i need to set it according to the 1.5x focal length (eg. lens is at 70mm, do i have to set flash head to zoom at 105mm?)

yip - if you need an extra SB800, feel free to pm/call/msg me
you could always ask for some milkcrates if they have any in the kitchen hehe or nick some chairs.

-j

seeto.centric wrote:
a little off topic, but ive always been a little baffled about using >1 SB800 (wirelessly triggered).
is there a general rule for adjusting the head's zoom setting or should i leave it at its widest or adjust according to focal length? as with the focal length, do i need to set it according to the 1.5x focal length (eg. lens is at 70mm, do i have to set flash head to zoom at 105mm?)

There is no 'general rule' for the off camera flashes. Consider the 'coverage angle' which you want to achieve. I even put on carton paper wrap around the flash for it to go even 'narrower' on the lights for some 'spot' effect.

For group shots, depending on which angle and distance it is placed to your group. Generally I find working with 35-50mm is good if you have it at a distance. Otherwise at 28mm before it loses too much light and power, but ofcourse, it all depends on your purpose.

yip - if you need an extra SB800, feel free to pm/call/msg me
you could always ask for some milkcrates if they have any in the kitchen hehe or nick some chairs.

-j

Thanks for the offer! But I already came back from the shoot

Russell.

Here is a good tutorial which might give you some ideas:

http://super.nova.org/DPR/Groups/Photog ... Groups.pdf


Stuart

Good article Stuart!

There has been ample quality advice given above, so I would just add
two things...

Make sure the person holding the blackboard front and centre is cute
(older members will know what I mean from school photo days), ,

and believe it or not, there is a scientifically based calculation on how
many shots you need to take of a group of people to get at least one
where no-one will have their eyes closed. The answer is...

for groups of less than 20 people, you divide the number of people by three if there's good light or you've got a flash. If it's bad light, divide the number of people by two.

So you will need to take twenty shots!!

(See this article, the research won an Ig Nobel award in 2006)

My advice, take quite a few and don't always say when you are shooting.

Good luck.

First of all,

I would like to say thanks for all the tips offered by everyone (so far).

Geoff wrote:Russell,
The best piece of advice I can give you for a 60 person shoot, is to take an assistant (or two) to help co ordinate this. People need direction, this many people need budging (nearly!).

Good luck and let us know how u get on, and show us your pics??

Thanks. I will try and make use of a couple of people, and I will certainly put a copy up here for critiquing when done.

Oz_Beachside wrote:dependig on your timing and location, I may be available to assist as an "usher".

Thanks for your offer Bruce. If you are available, I wouldn't say no

Oz_Beachside wrote:time of day would be key. What quality level do you need, what are these going to be used for?

The first session of photos will be taken at around 10-10:30am on Friday 13/7. The second set will be a similar bat time the week later (20/7). The camp is happening at a conference centre 10kms or so out of Bacchus Marsh. The photos will be printed (at 8x6) and each participant will receive a copy ... Hardly Normals will do 8x6 for around 95c per print.


Matt. K thanks for your tips about light and group position. I will certainly try and take this into account

smac wrote:Here is a good tutorial which might give you some ideas:
http://super.nova.org/DPR/Groups/Photog ... Groups.pdf
Stuart

There are some great tips in that doco Stuart. Thanks a lot

Greg B wrote:and believe it or not, there is a scientifically based calculation on how
many shots you need to take of a group of people to get at least one
where no-one will have their eyes closed. The answer is...

I will not have too much say over who is holding the sign Greg. The two key leaders of the conference will get that honour, but it looks like I have to chuck a calculator into my camera kit from now on

I will have to print out all these recommendations ...

Once again. Thanks all.

Well,

I have taken the first of 2 group shots. 42 Guys on a Men's retreat. This weekend 60 or so ladies for the Ladies half of the retreat. I tried to remember all the hints and tips given here

I am more than happy to receive any crit, comments or tips based on the photo below. Click it for a slightly larger version.

f5.6 1/1000 no flash, Aperture priority. This is straight out of camera. I printed it 8x6 at Harvey Normans and looked OK. Would a reflector pointed bottom right of photo helped to reduce the shadows on the faces?

<a href="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1338/842227941_dbdc05f04d_o.jpg" title="Group Photo"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1338/842227941_dbdc05f04d_o.jpg" width="800" height="534" alt="Emmaus Men's Walk #19" /></a>

rflower
Nicely set up and posed but you broke one of the golden rules of group shots....you placed them into broken light, (under a tree). Note the harsh shadows on the right hand side. As a rule, you should use fill flash for all group shots. The good news is that the image can be improved with a litle careful PP. Good first group...well Done! The next one will be even better!

Matt. K wrote:rflower
Nicely set up and posed but you broke one of the golden rules of group shots....you placed them into broken light, (under a tree). Note the harsh shadows on the right hand side.

Matt. K wrote:The good news is that the image can be improved with a litle careful PP. Good first group...well Done! The next one will be even better!

Thanks Matt.

Not having done a huge amount of PP before, I would love some tips / advice .

I tried adjusting the levels and then the saturation of the blues in the GIMP and came up with this. How does this look?
<a href="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1361/845108904_f7649d2f22_o.jpg" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1361/845108904_f7649d2f22_o.jpg" width="800" height="534" alt="Emmaus Men's Walk # 19 (pp)" /></a>
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1361/845108904_f7649d2f22_o.jpg

Russell, I reckon you did well, with the exception of the issue raised by Matt.

Unfortunately, I think your PPd version is a bit washed out.

I have had a go, using the fabulous Shadow/Highlight adjustment feature in CS3.

So in order, original, your PP, CS3 PP.

cheers, and good luck with the women's group


NOTE:- Yes, these shots are not compliant with the 800 pixel long side maximum, but I have
used my special Mod powers and posted them in their full glory in order to highlight the differences

Greg,

thank you for taking the time and effort to have a go at making my photo look better. I will have to keep playing as well to learn and get better.

It has been a pretty busy couple of weeks, which is why I did not respond sooner.

Here is the ladies photo, taken 1 week later.



positioned in same place as before but as mentioned by Matt K earlier, overcast conditions leads to softer lighting / shadows.

Once again, would love and comments etc for next time. Thanks

nice colour saturation, but unfortunately the shadows kinda hurt the photos
is it me or is the ladies photo a little soft?

-j