Some info for a new job

[phoenix]

Hi guys and girls. I have been a bit busy lately so haven't been around much (am going to post some pics of the lighting workshop very soon!). The reason being, i am trying to secure a few photography jobs. As of today i have got a new job working for an advertising agency. I'm very excited about it, and can't wait to start. One aspect of their work is working for local nightclubs. They are getting me to go and photograph each week at the nightclub and get photos of the patrons and put them up on the website.

This is what i'm asking about today. Has anyone done anything like this before? Basically i roam around 3 different nightclubs on the night and take photos of everyone. I've never done anything like this before so am not really sure what to expect. I'm guessing the D200 would be suitable for shooting, but what lens would people think would be best? I'm thinking maybe taking the 50mm 1.4, and the 17-55mm. That would cover for low light situations and also getting fairly wide as well. Also shooting RAW might help on the night. Has anyone got any suggestions? Or any advice they would like to give?

Thanks!

[Geoff]

Hey mate,
Congrats on the job, awesome!
I think you're pretty spot on with the lens selection you have mentioned...and use the SB800 heaps, it's a night club, and you're providing another strobe!

D200 would be fine, most nightclubs have high ceilings so bounce flash wouldn't really work, so I'd point the flash towards the people and use either a lightsphere or the diffuser that came with the flash itself...careful not to overpower the flash though, and I'd more often than not use fill flash. This is a new and exciting venture for you, and it'll probably take you a few weeks to 'master' it. What I'd also suggest is in your own time (if possible) go out and do a few 'test' runs so that you know what's going to work, and what's not...get familiar with the local clubs, introduce yourself to the manager's/security and most of all, have fun...

I think both the 50 1.4 and the 17-55 are ideal for you, and you certainly won't want to be roaming a busy nightclub with any kind of backpack, so I'd suggest either a bum bag with the other lens in it, have the SB800 on all the time and off you go. Something a little wider (perhaps the siggy 10-20 could also be good if/when you can afford it).

They probably already have this worked out, but have business cards to hand out or small flyers with your details and where the photos will appear too..it could well lead to more work for you in different arenas.

Hope this helps. Thumbs up to you!

[foonji]

Hi guys and girls. I have been a bit busy lately so haven't been around much (am going to post some pics of the lighting workshop very soon!). The reason being, i am trying to secure a few photography jobs. As of today i have got a new job working for an advertising agency. I'm very excited about it, and can't wait to start. One aspect of their work is working for local nightclubs. They are getting me to go and photograph each week at the nightclub and get photos of the patrons and put them up on the website.

This is what i'm asking about today. Has anyone done anything like this before? Basically i roam around 3 different nightclubs on the night and take photos of everyone. I've never done anything like this before so am not really sure what to expect. I'm guessing the D200 would be suitable for shooting, but what lens would people think would be best? I'm thinking maybe taking the 50mm 1.4, and the 17-55mm. That would cover for low light situations and also getting fairly wide as well. Also shooting RAW might help on the night. Has anyone got any suggestions? Or any advice they would like to give?

Thanks!

Yes... im a veteren in this field... I used to do it just about 3 nights a week, if not more some weekends... pretty much only do it now for special nights/events...

as much as people will say use 50mm prime its soo fast and lots of light, it just doesn't work in a crowded club, especially on a crop body... you will find yourself working mostly between 16-35mm pretty much anything longer is only useful if you are getting DJ/artist shots etc, or shooting from the stage at the people where you have more room.

Firstly I can't stress enough, work in Manual. The following settings are what i have used and has worked for me, tailor to your needs and what you want your images to look like, and I found that each and every venue i went to was different, and required a different mixture of settings... depending on house lighting, roof height, etc...

1. aperture...myself depending on the shot and how many people were in it, i ranged my aperture between 2.8-4.0 and even down to 2.0 if you have a WA prime.
2. shutter speed...can vary between 1/8 to 1/30, a slow shutter speed is essential to capture ambient lighting, to get that club feel. Don't worry if the shutter/aperture combo is underexposing for the environment as your flash will light the subjects, but i'll get to flash soon.
3. ISO... i generally worked between 400-1000 ISO, mostly of the time on 640 (that was on a 30D body) and pushing up to 1600 depending on the club and its ambient lighting... noise isn't really a big worry for this style of shooting (others may say different, that is my pers pref)
4.Flash... most of the time i used a stofen difuser and bounced the flash... i only found one place this never worked well and that was it was 20m to the roof... but another big flash style i was big on was using my flash with a remote cord, no difuser and shooting it from various angles which gave a harsh lighting look but it much suiting that club feel. also, Flash Exposure Lock... USE IT! it will be a life saver... FEL onto the subjects face and you can't go wrong... you'll get 99.9% spot on flash... no over/under exposing... as flash is critical in this environment...
5. Backpack/bumbag... don't even bother carrying any bag with you, speak with club management as you are working there, they will have a secure area that you can chuck all excess stuff and your bag... i never have had to swap a CF or Battery while shooting in a night... if i filled up a card, i had taken too many photos. if you are that worried about it, you can keep em in your sky rocket, they are tiny. most of the time you'll only use the one lens and won't need to consistently swap lenses, and if you do go to where your bag is.... get out of the club area... all sorts of nastys to get in your camera... smoke/drunks with liquids/etc... i have ended up with vodka on my camera before.
6. Pro Look... girls love the big camera and think you are gonna make them look good and famous... so they'll play it up for you... and well guys will just be plain d***heads but thats the minority. also get used when you show some drunk the photo they just took abusing you because they look spastic because they are drunk and trying to get you to delete it... but only again... that probably happened to me 1 in 50 people...
7. Cards... make sure you have your own business cards... you'll get other work out of doing it


welll thats my little ramble...all i can think of atm and as i say RAMBLE, i havent gone back and read through it, so some may not make sense... so feel free to ask for clarification or any other questions on the topic

[foonji]

one important thing i forgot to say about flash... use rear curtain mode/2nd sync flash/what ever you want to call it when it fires the flash once at the end of the exposure... otherwise you'll get arty photos with slow shutter speeds... haha

[PiroStitch]

Congrats on scoring the work!

With work like this, you can rock up with the SB800, D200 and 17-55 and you'll be fine. Shooting in JPEG large or medium at high quality will be fine as well. Just make sure you get the composition right, and it's all good.

For me, my personal pref has been:

Aperture - f4 to f5.6
Shutter speed - 1/200
ISO: 800 or 1250
Flash - TTL +1/3

Also take at least two shots of each photo so you don't get people in mid-blink, etc.

Have fun and learn from the experience.

If you want to do some trippy ambient lighting from the club lighting, then bring the 50 1.4

[phoenix]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I'm really excited about all of this. This is only one very minor part of the job, but its the one i've got the least experience with so all the advice is appreciated.

The one thing i haven't used much is the SB600 i have. Can anyone help with settings and stuff for that? I have only just got it, and have yet to use it in a professional setting. The general consensus seems to be to use the SB600 on top of the D200. Is there much to know? I'd hate to use this for the first time seriously at the clubs and come out with terrible pics. I guess it's their just for a bit of fill light, so I'm guessing i need to make sure it's not too bright.

The ISO is one i am curious about also. Considering it is only for web use (as far as I'm aware right now) is going to 1000 usable on the D200? Also people have said around 1/200 for shutter speed. I'm assuming this will be fine for this type of thing. What is the limit for that do you think?

The other question i have, and Foonji might be best to answer this, is how much is reasonable for two nights a week shooting and then a sunday putting the shots on the various websites? I am being emailed a final draft of the contract to work for them, with pay rates as well, but they were very firm when they said it was all negotiable, so I'm thinking i might have some scope to push up a price.

That's about all i can think of again, but thanks everyone for the input so far, it's making the task seem a little less daunting.

[PiroStitch]

Rock up early on the night, and take a few tests with a few people and chimp your shots. PRetty soon you know what will work and what won't work. Just use a consistent aperture and shutter speed to work with first and adjust the flash power to suit.

Even at ISO 800 on the D200 will be fine.

In terms of charge price, consider the number of hours you'll be working including the outside of club work and charge by the hour. If what they're offering is around what you're expecting then it's all good Go for the experience as well as the bigger $$ will come in due time.

[foonji]

what have they offered you?

[Matt. K]

ISO 800 to 1250???? Guys....What's the flashgun for?

[phoenix]

Still waiting for a response from the company, but they have sent me an email to let me know they are still interested and are just organising a trial run for this week sometime. They are sending me more info, pay etc soon. I'll be trying out the flash, iso settings etc tomorrow so hopefully all goes well. I'm pretty excited about it all, but still a bit nervous. I'll post as soon as i know anymore. Thanks again guys.

[Big V]

800 is for the ambient light if I have read the above information correctly

[methd]

ISO 800 to 1250???? Guys....What's the flashgun for?

It depends how much ambient light there is available. I shoot a lot at 3200 ISO +, in dimly lit receptions with a flash to light the subject.

If you shoot ISO 200-400 with flash in dark places, all you expose is the person with a black background. It's about the same quality as you would expect from a point and shoot.

This is what you should be doing...

1) Turn flash off and set camera settings for ambient (manual). This means F2.8 for a single person, and F4 for small groups (depending on your distance and focal length used). Shutter should be about 1/30 for stationary subjects and at least 1/80 for moving subjects. 1/30 isn't that slow, since the flash will freeze them to some extent. Then work out what ISO you need so that the background is exposed. Don't worry about noise as the flash will light the subject, so that part of the photo will be noise free. Most settings for me is usually about ISO3200, 1/30 and F2.8.

2) Now some ppl stop the ambient settings down 1 to 2 stops to get better separation from the subject. Other togs don't, this is up to you. I usually stop it down about 1 stop which brings it to about ISO1600, 1/30, F2.8.

3) Next step is to leave those manual settings and turn the flash on. You can either use ttl with the flash and adjust the compensation to suit, or just shoot in manual mode (usually around 1/64 to 1/32 depending on distance to subject). If distance to subject varies a lot with each shot, then ttl is more appropriate.

That should do the trick

And some examples (@3200 & 6400 ISO)

[Grev]

Wouldn't... go into A mode and smallest Centre weighed metering then putting EV at -1 to -2 then use TTL for FV for faster work flow?

[methd]

Not really because that will meter only for the subject and not the background. The camera will generally flash more and drop the ISO when you let it do its own thing. In an indoors situation, lighting doesn't change so there's no need to go to automated modes such as S and A. There's perfect control using Manual and the ttl on the flash can flash according to distance.

[phoenix]

Hi again guys,

I've used what you've said to test some settings and have had some great results. The settings that seem to work best are F2.8 - 4 depending on a few different things, 1/30 to 1/100, and iso of about 1600 on the d200, maybe pushing 3200 (i'm hesitant to go to 3200 on the D200 because shots i've seen in the past are very noisy, so i would like some opinions on that!)

What i am having trouble on is the sb600 flash. I'm pretty much a total newby with it and am having some very inconsistent results. Could anyone give me a crash course with it, or point me in the direction of a good tutorial? I am reading the manual but would like a bit more info.

Basically what i am trying to figure out is that when i set the camera settings for the ambient light, without flash, i get the above settings. Now i am trying to figure out what to set the SB600 to, so that the people are exposed properly as well as the background.

I'm having a bit of trouble.

[Grev]

Not really because that will meter only for the subject and not the background. The camera will generally flash more and drop the ISO when you let it do its own thing. In an indoors situation, lighting doesn't change so there's no need to go to automated modes such as S and A. There's perfect control using Manual and the ttl on the flash can flash according to distance.

Well I thought he was doing nightclub photos and the lighting there changes...

Well I guess you have to matrix or spot meter to your liking for the background and just let the onboard TTL rip then.  BTW, I use manual EV and manual FV, I very rarely use TTL unless it is an event (which this is). And if you have a D300, turn the FUNC button into a spot meter button, it's what I do to get more accurate readings, so in this case, spot meter the background then underexpose it by 2 stops or so. I guess it's just another way of doing things.

[phoenix]

Hey guys,

Thanks again for all the info, i start shooting tonight so i'm pretty excited about things, just trying o figure out the SB600 a little more and i'll be set.

Just wondering about an ABN, and whether or not i should have one. Is it necessary? I have started to read a little about all of this, but would like some actual persons experience if thats possible?

Thanks again!

[kevinnugent]

Regarding the ABN number, check with your employer. They may insist so they can claim back the GST they're paying you.

I know a fair few employers insist their contractors have an ABN. You don't have to be registered for GST under (I think it's now) $75k p.a.

May be time to engage an accountant?

Good luck with it. How did you go last week?

Kevin

[phoenix]

Hey guys,

I'm moving house so don't have much access to the net right now, so i'll post some pics when i get that sorted.

Last weekend went really well. It was very very very dark. I went and had a look at the 3 clubs on the friday before shooting, but that was still daylight so i couldn't get a grasp of lighting just then. When i got there i was a bit shocked to see just how dark the clubs were. Much darker than any i'd been to previously, so i furiously fiddled with the settings and got a few nice ones on friday. I was back on saturday and they wanted around 40 shots of each club, so i was better prepared. I got enough on Saturday and they reviewed them on the Monday. They really liked them (although i was a bit disappointed) and they're getting me to continue doing them! It will be about 3 hours worth of shooting for all the bars, and about an hour of PP and uploading. So about 4 hours work, and getting paid pretty well i think.

They are a newish marketing agency and they told me that there would be a fair bit of work coming up, so i should be able to get some good stuff through them. Very excited!

Thanks everyone for all the advice. It helped enormously! There was a few things i found that worked in this sort of environment that wasn't mentioned, so i'll make sure i let you all know when i get the net back on. I'm really looking forward to getting the D300 that i've been putting off buying. It's going to make the club stuff much better i think.

Thanks again guys!!