DSLRUsers.com

Hey,

Ok well I've decided to take up a bit of photography and have been doing some reading and am ready to get a camera but I can't post in the for sale section! haha. Any tips on places to look for one. I'm ultimately after a Canon 400D I think but a Nikon D40/D40X/D70 would also be fine. I was considering getting a Canon 450D but at around $1200 cost price with the twin lens kit its a bit pricey I think as I'm only starting out and also want a new tv haha. Once I get my camera you'll have the pleasure of me being the n00b posting his pictures and questions a couple times a week haha.

Also if anyone on the forum is interested in selling their camera in the sub $900 range (including lenses and whatever else) let me know.

Thanks guys.

David

Welcome Orphan..... if you're nice, we'll have you around

Best suggestion - find, hold, handle, use these cameras in a store somewhere and work out if you prefer the Nikon or the Canon as it is a personal decision.....

Places to look - I'd suggest you try everywhere - JB Hi-fi, Camera stores, Myer, etc..... there recently have been price cuts by the Aus distributors - so the old saying of buying a grey import (imported not via Nikon / Canon Australia, but direct from HK/US etc) has less appeal.

Have a look here

http://www.cameras.net.au for Nikon - Aus stock (ECS)

vs

http://www.d-d-photographics.com.au -- grey stock.

And a bloke on another forum I follow, in Sydney, just bought:

EOS450D....2 IS lens, UV filters 4g high speed card and bag, $1280...Im am very pleased

1 comment I'll make - the Nikon D70 is getting old now, often sell for $400-500 2nd hand. You probably meant to type D80 I reckon.

Also - you should note the one forum requirement - for a meaningful location in your profile as outlined in the fine print near the top of the portal page (not just Canberra, but eg Fyshwick, ACT or Canberra CBD if you live in the centre of the Capitol itself). Cheers

Look here also
http://photobuff.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_14&products_id=454

I as well a few guys in here got their gear from them - (Grey imports)

Then get accessories here http://stores.ebay.com.au/Hong-Kong-Supplies

Bruce

Hi David, and welcome.

Orphan wrote:Ok well I've decided to take up a bit of photography

Why?

It's a serious question, and the answer to that may be able to help us to be able to better help you.

What would you like to be photographing? What do you expect to be doing with your images?

but I can't post in the for sale section!

And before you go any further, please take some time to read the FAQ.

That you are prevented from posting in the For Sale section is by design. it's a deliberate decision, and it's all explained in ... yes .... the FAQ. Also, please take heed of Ian's comments about your location in your profile. Again, we want to help our members, and knowing, roughly, what region they're in means that people who are local can read their questions and jump in and offer help where needed.

Any tips on places to look for one. I'm ultimately after a Canon 400D I think but a Nikon D40/D40X/D70 would also be fine. I was considering getting a Canon 450D but at around $1200 cost price with the twin lens kit its a bit pricey

Why do you say $1200 is pricey for a two lens kit? Budgetary constraints? Do you just think it's not good value?

Where do you believe the value lies in buying into a DSLR system?

Have you had a play with any of the cameras that you mention? If not, that should be your first port of call. No point in buying into a system if the damn things feel uncomfortable in your hands.

And "in your hands" is the most important criteria here: whether you buy Nikon, Canon, Panasonic, Olympus, Sony, whatever ... they are all capable of producing great snaphots, and they are all capable of helping a one to make some great images, provided you take some time to learn and understand how they work ... so the brand is of lesser importance than how it may feel in your hands.

So, get yourself out into a camera store or three, and have a play with some toys. But do pay attention to what you're doing, and to what you do, and do not, like about what you play with.

Then worry about the cost: there are some good value new toys to be had, and some great value second hand gear as well.

Once I get my camera you'll have the pleasure of me being the n00b posting his pictures and questions a couple times a week

And that is something that we, truly, look forward to seeing.

Hey again. Ok location changed haha.

I have had a feel of the canon 1000D and a nikon D80 that I don't remember the model number of. The weight of either made little difference to me as I found both pretty light (I guess the weight comes from the heavier lenses?). Both felt fine in my hands though I didn't have the biggest play around with the buttons.

who that guy who got the EOS450D didn't have a user name along the lines of remi did he haha. Cause thats the exact price and gear a guy I know got.

The reason, I did a little photography in college and now that I'm going overseas next year I'd like to have at least some ability to take a decent photo as well as I find it enjoyable. Just for personal enjoyment really.

I didn't mean to say that kit was pricey as I think its actually a pretty good price, I was implying I think that might be a bit pricey for me to be starting off on if there are available second hand camera's that will still produce good results. As for how it feels, I liked the canon 1000D, the nikon wasn't too bad and I wasn't a huge fan of the feel of the olympus, just didn't feel as good as the other two.

EDIT: I'm most interested in landscape and general photography, not people so much. Would like to try macro eventually but its not a big one for me at the moment.

Thanks.

Hi David,

Orphan wrote:I have had a feel of the canon 1000D and a nikon D80 that I don't remember the model number of.

That would probably be the D80.

The weight of either made little difference to me as I found both pretty light (I guess the weight comes from the heavier lenses?). Both felt fine in my hands though I didn't have the biggest play around with the buttons.

Good glass can certainly weigh quite a bit. But you should be trying to play with the buttons. That's how you'll be using the camera, and it's how good that feels that should be starting to play a part in your decision making processes. How does the shutter feel to you? How does it feel when you want to change some settings? At your eye, how well does it acquire focus, and does one feel better, at your eye, than another?

The reason, I did a little photography in college and now that I'm going overseas next year I'd like to have at least some ability to take a decent photo as well as I find it enjoyable. Just for personal enjoyment really.

This is why we ask these questions, you know?

Traveling with an SLR can present some interesting issues. How many lenses will you have for the trip? How much space will they take? Because of the high relative value of photographic equipment, many of us choose to include our gear in our carry-on, ad that can have an effect on other things that you may wish to carry with you. So size and weight assumes some importance here, as well as your selection of specific equipment.

That said, a D80 or D90 with an 18-200mm VR can prove to be a very capable and compact travel kit. There will be similar options in the Canon realm, and perhaps a kit with that sort of capability is what you should be looking to as a starting point.

Alternatively, consider that for travel, many of us choose to not take our SLRs, for exactly the reasons stated: size, weight, and accumulated value (== risk). In those cases, a good PHD may be a desirable and less expensive option. The Canon G9 is an excellent camera in this context, and might be worth a bit of investigation.

I was implying I think that might be a bit pricey for me to be starting off

And that's fine. It's always better to ask and get a better understanding of your position, rather than to make assumptions, which invariably will be wrong.

[/quote]I'm most interested in landscape and general photography,[/quote]

As noted above, one of the kit lenses, preferably with a greater range, will be ideal for you. look for something like an 18-105 or 18-200 in the Nikon range, or the 17-85 in the Canon; longer if you can, but I'm not as up to date with the Canon kit glass as I am with the nikkor stuff, so I'm sure that others will add to this as needed.

gstark wrote:but I'm not as up to date with the Canon kit glass as I am with the nikkor stuff, so I'm sure that others will add to this as needed.

For a beginner, I think the canon kit glass 18-55 is OK, but for a bit of extra reach and reasonable quality 17-85 would be a good choice (Know it's limitations though).

I would also recommend the new 18-200 by canon if you want a do-it-all lens but at the cost of quality and push-pull design.

Welcome to the forum and looking forward to seeing your photos.

Thanks for such an in depth response gstark.

What are your thoughts on a Nikon D80 with AF-S 18-135mm lens for $1,250?
The Canon 450D with twins lens kit and bag for $1,260 seems like better overall value to me.
Also any thoughts about a Nikon D60 with 8-55VR and 55-200VR lenses for $1100?

Honestly even if I get a 400D/or similar now I can always sell it and get a new camera down the track, its not like I NEED a D80/450D, that said I am finding it a bit hard to locate a good second hand camera and lens at the moment.

I have to admit that one of my reasons for not wanting to spend decent money on a new camera is partly because of being new to photography but also like you mentioned with traveling I would feel a bit better having a cheaper camera so if something did happen its not a big loss. I'll most definitely be getting a decent enough P&S for overseas as well but I'd like to come back with some really nice photos I could print etc.

The Canon 450D with twins lens kit

I brought the 400D with twins lens kit last year and regret wasting money on the twin lenses.

The 70-300 is not to bad (not great) but the 18-55 is not a good lens. Photos are not sharp and you WILL be disappointed in the results after spending some time in here when you see what other people shoot with the same camera.

I would really recommend looking at least one general purpose mid range quality lens. Mr Taxman this year paid for a 28-135 IS which I find I use most of the time and very happy with the results, its is reasonably wide with a good level of zoom. You could also look at the 17-85IS which gives you more at the wide end.

You can then add lenses to your kit when money is available like a wide angle like a Tokina 12-24 or large aperture lens like 50 1.4 etc. Just really try hard to stay away from the kit lenses, spend more on less (ie buy one good lens not 2 cheap lenses) now rather than be stuck with lenses you don't use.

Bruce

Thats an interesting reply Chaase and I think you bring up a good point. I will definitely look into that, might be better off just buying a body and choosing a lens. Now I guess I will have to decide on a body before anyone can help me choose a lens but are there any general hints towards good (but affordable) canon lenses and nikon lenses that would make it more worth while getting a body + lens?

My advise if your thinking about doing landscapes would be.

Canon 400D (body only) about $400.00 ish. (or 450D)

Sigma 10-20mm with Cokin filters. (lens is about $600.00) only thing is its no good on full frame, but if just starting out its well worth it.

Try and get the Canon 50mm 1.8 as a basic prime and your set to go.

Spend the $$ on glass. Built kit from there.

Hi David

From one newbie to another, I thought I'd add my two cents worth, as I'm about six months ahead of you...

I purchased a 450D when they first came out in April, along with a Sigma 18-200 IS lens. I figured on buying that lens alone, because I thought it would do everything I wanted in photography, and I wouldn't have to lug around extra lenses, and keep changing them all the time. All of this sounded like too much hassle, plus the issues of dust in sensors etc. I'm also planning on going OS again soon too, so this was (and still is) a consideration for me too.

As it turns out (with all of my vast experience... ) it has become the lens I use the very least. I actually took it around to the distributors and had them check it out, because it's really not a particularly sharp lens. While I was initially impressed with it's focal range, I was disappointed with how few pics were truly sharp. (They said it was within spec... hmmm)

I know my skills with my 450D have improved since, or perhaps I should say I have learnt how to use it more accurately and consistently (always using spot focus works for me, for one thing). Perhaps I should put the 18-200 back on and see if it was just me!

Have a look around the forum. There will be plenty of times your jaw will drop when you come across someone's fantastic picture. Almost always, these pics will have been taken with a lens that goes down to f2.8. Unfortunately, this generally means extra $$$ and extra size/weight, but the difference in output quality is immediate.

If you'll indulge me, a quick review of my glass:
The 18-200 IS: as mentioned above. Must have more faith in it. The Image Stabilisation (in any lens) is amazing technology. My workmate has the Nikon equivalent on his D80 as his only lens and loves it.
24-70 f2.8: This is almost always on my camera. Great all rounder, lovely at f2.8 for people shots (you'll get into this, I promise). But, it's big, heavy, a little slow to focus sometimes, sometimes not long enough, and most often not wide enough.
28-105mm: Given to me by my dad from his last film SLR. It's a beauty. Sharp pictures, lightweight, very quick and silent to focus. There's no hunting, it just snaps in. Very uncanny. I often refocus using this one because I don't believe it got it so quickly! Cons: Not wide enough. Oh I wish this was 18-105...
(Can be had for $150-$200 or so second hand. There's a few versions of it though.)
10-20mm Sigma: Wide. R-e-a-l-l-y wide! Most often used at 20mm, but it's outrageous fun at 10mm. Have to be careful to leave your feet out of the frame in portrait mode! To be honest though, it's downright useful sometimes, and fun to use for the great distortion, but doesn't get used often enough for me to justify the $600 buying it. (Use panorama stitching software instead!)
50mm f1.8: aka the Nifty Fifty, Plastic Fantastic (avail for either Nikon or Canon). This is another great fun lens to use, because it forces you to move with your feet instead of zooming, and you have to think ahead about your framing. Great for portraits, and the shallow depth of field you can get out of these is something to behold. By itself, wouldn't be appropriate for pics of beautiful European cities, for example. ($140 or so new.)

My signature (and this list) is proof that the bug has bitten me, and I'm not alone here! $1200 for a kit will only get you started! There will be other forum members here laughing at me because I haven't (yet) taken the leap into the $1200+ (+++!) lens price territory...

I think for me, the ideal lens would be something like a 17-85, or even better a -105, but I don't know of one at f2.8. Must check out the reviews of canon's new 17-85 IS... or do I just buy a G9 for travelling!? Aarrgh!

Welcome to the forum. Your first post has generated a pretty good response!
If you just want to take pictures, there is a huge range of point and shoots, and some SLR-like cameras (I had a great Fuji one) that may fulfil your requirements.
If you want to take your photography to the next level, ask a few more questions and jump on in! There are many professional photogs on this forum, who make money doing what they love, and I'm sure they all learn new techniques on a regular basis too.


Paul

Hey, thanks for the response paulmac.

I don't know if I should jump on the Nikon or Canon bandwagon haha. I'm getting price info on a Nikon D40X which if its a good price I might pick up. Does anyone have any experience with this camera? A lot of people say just try it out but I don't really have the experience to know if its good or not besides how it feels in my hands, I think the only real downsides to it are no mirror lock up (not sure how often I would use this) and its not compatible with auto focus unless the lens has an inbuilt motor or something? Can I still use the auto focus lenses that require the camera to have the motor but just manual focus it?

Do you think a D40x + 18-55 lens and a AF NIKKOR 28-105mm f3.5-4.5D lens would make an alright n00by package?

What kind of price would do you think is good for a D40X and 18-55 lens? Overall - I'm waiting to hear back about how old it is etc.

And is the Canon 350D a very good camera/would you choose it over a D40X to buy into the canon side of things if it was priced well?

Thanks guys.

EDIT: Ok the D40X i'm looking at is around a year old and has ~6000 actuations (I think that was the term for it) The guy is checking the reciept and actual actuations tomorrow as well as sending me pictures of the cameras physical condition. As long as its in good condition how much would be reasonable as a buyer for both the body and the 18-55 lens?

Orphan, a D40 with 18-55 is $574 new Aus stock, a D60 with 18-55 is $775 grey and $895 Aus. The D60 is more comparable in MP with the D40X, I would suggest 60% of new would be a starting point for an obsolete s/h body. I would start with one lens then see what else you feel you require.

If its in good nick does $500 shipped with the lens sound ok? Quick question what is the max SD card size the D40X can use? And is SDHC a different format to just regular SD or will any SD compatable device be able to use SDHC cards? It seems to stand for high capacity but is this different to a normal SD card? Wouldn't mind picking up a 4-8gb card to pile up the raw shots

Orphan you give no indication if it is Aus or grey.

Sorry, its aus stock.

That seems a reasonable price. This review, http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond40x/ should give you a general rundown on the D40X

Thanks for the link, I have checked out that review before and I'm pretty happy all round with it.

Waiting to hear back about the camera. For now I have some questions about filters, if this goes ahead I am thinking about getting a hoya UV and circular polarizing filter - the two below to be precise. I will be picking up a 4gb SD card at the same time, are there any other goodies I should consider?

http://www.digitalcamerawarehouse.com.au/prod255.htm
http://www.digitalcamerawarehouse.com.au/prod3788.htm

There is also this pack http://www.digitalcamerawarehouse.com.au/prod2372.htm which has all the base line filters offered. Does anyone have any experience regarding hoya filters and the difference between the G series (low model) and the super HMC Pro 1? I have no problem spending more on a mid range filter ($150+ each is a bit much for high end ones I think haha ). Are the super hmc pro 1 worth getting over the G series (which kinda look like macca's toys haha).

Any thoughts about the hoya close up filters? Wouldn't mind a +4 or maybe a bit higher for some fun. Are they worth the money or a gimmick and I should just suck it up and get a macro lens if I want to do some macro stuff?

EDIT: seems he wants $550 PP for the camera and lens and standard accessories. Camera looks to be in good physical condition and has ~6200 acuations. Should I keep looking or is this a fair price?

Hmmm - I suggest a search on filters on the forum - there has been plenty of past discussion + recommendations of websites to buy from.

I should get organised and buy some more filters - B+W is the brand I prefer - but I do have some Hoya as well - OK but hard to clean. I have heard from a mate about damaging coatings on his Hoyas while trying to clean them as well.

As for the Q on the camera - The $550 price is probably a bit high IMHO - as mentioned you can get a D40 NEW with lens for $574.

I'd prefer a new camera (but lower spec) to an older camera for essentially the same money. Bear in mind as well -- that the 18-55 lens will have very little value in real terms - I'd guess maybe $50 on its own, and based on opinions it is likely you will replace it with a nicer lens in due course (even a value Sigma f2.8 zoom of 17-50 or 24-70 for a few hundred $ new would be better IMHO).

As for close up filters - I'd suggest a proper macro lens - the Tamron 90mm has a great rep for optical quality even if it has a plasticy construction but is priced very well.....

Mind you -- collecting camera gear is addictive, and gets expensive quick. ATM the most I have paid for a lens is about $1200, but I've done that a couple of times now, and also bought cheaper lenses.

Lens choice is a very personal thing, and I have found I prefer a couple, and ignore some others. As an example, I rarely use the 18-200VR Nikkor I bought, but love the Nikkor 28-70 f2.8 (One of the exxy lenses) and also rarely use a 2nd hand Nikkor 80-200 f2.8 but use and love the 80-400VR Nikkor (even though it is a slower f4-5.6 lens).

Ahhh this is lame to try and pick a camera and fine one (if used for a good price). I can get any new camera aus stock cost price through a friend who works in a camera department so in that respect maybe the D60 would be better? But refering to Kane's post he puts forward a good point about getting a body and a decent lens rather than a kit lens etc but that is balanced out by me thinking possibly just get a 450D/D80 straight off the bat instead with the kit haha

A D40X or 400D are still my main to focuses at the moment though i'm finding it hard to locate any second hand 400D's around. From what i've seen both camera's have sufficient image quality for my needs and current goals.

hmmmm there should be one n00b camera and one pro camera to keep things simple haha.

As for filters i've had a look around. I think I'll pick up 1 or 2 Hoya's to start and once I learn to use them possibly go for a higher quality filter. The Cokin's seem interesting but not sure if they are for me.

EDIT: $550 seems a bit much for a S/H D40X after finding a couple places selling the D60 body for $660ish with 3 year warranty.
EDIT_2: If I go a body only i'm considering a 50mm F1.8 and something along the lines of a 18-105 lens (might be able to get one of a D90 user that wants to change ). That said I'm still getting my head around what it all means. Also how do I tell compatibility as most nikkor lenses i've seen have a 52mm front end but the 18-10 has a 67mm front from memory - I realize the front isn't the joining part but makes it annoying for filters.

Orphan, if you can get gear wholesale either buy a D60 as the cheap camera or D80/D90 as your expensive alternative (or Canon equivalents) and get a 50mm 1.8 lens. In both Canon and Nikon that is the highest quality per dollar lens and will always be handy for low light work down the line. You can then decide what that lens lacks and buy something complementary.

Well i'm still on the hunt. The current target is a D60 (grey import through DD Photgraphics - its under 6 months old) and Nikkor 18-105 f/3.5 - 5.6 VR Zoom Lens (Comes with the D90) with two genuine batterys. Does $800 sound alright? I was first thinking about just getting the camera but the Nikkor 18-105 included in that price seems pretty damn good rather than just having the 50mm 1.8. Only real concern is filters as the 18-105 lens takes 67mm filters from memory and lots of other nikkors (such as the 50mm) take a 52mm filter.

Any thoughts?

Orphan, you seem pre occupied with filters? Many photographers don't use filters at all. If you want to standardise on filters, many pro lenses take 77mm filters and you can use step down rings. The D60 you are looking at is $800 with lens, I assumed you knew about DD by mentioning them in your post, the sell new D60 with 18-55Vr for $759 and and ECS sell the same as Aus for $895. Is the DD warranty transferable? If not you have no warranty at all as Nikon Aus will not look after it. So the questions would be is it worth saving a very, very small amount versus no warranty at all? Worth reading this post here asking has your DSLR ever been to the doctor? 39% said yes. It sounds like you are after the lowest possible price, sometimes that is not the best balance. Good luck in finding what you want.

It still has warranty and i'm not sure if its 'transferable' but he will copy the receipt if that is the only thing that matters regarding warranty from DD . The 18-105mm lens is about $400-499 to buy by itself so I just though $800 sounded alright. I'm not being super cheap I would just like something a bit above the 40D/X but not $1300+ for a D90 at the moment but that would probably be my next step if I felt I needed a better camera.

Orphan wrote:It still has warranty and i'm not sure if its 'transferable' but he will copy the receipt if that is the only thing that matters regarding warranty from DD .

I don't think you fully understand Glen's point. Grey market gear is brought in directly by the seller and not through official distributor (in this case Nikon Australia). This means the warranty won't be from Nikon Australia and why would they be interested in honouring a warranty that is not theirs and which is for a product they did not make any money on?

Have people had some bad experiences with DD? The camera comes with a 12 month DD warranty and if they fail to honor it they are breaking the trade practices act and I can just take them to fair trades (which I had to do with a computer parts supplier about 3 years ago and won). I was unaware that the fix rate of cameras was up to 39%, that is quite high :S I've read some of the posts on grey imports and most of it doesn't worry me too much. What kinda costs are associated with servicing/repairing a camera though?

Orphan wrote:The camera comes with a 12 month DD warranty

Does it?

Let's talk a bit about warranties.

New cameras: Nikon, DSLR bodies.

If purchased in Australia, from Nikon Australia stock. That's what you'll get if you buy from Ted's, Michael's, ECS, Vanbar, Hardly Normal, JB HiFi, and others ... 12 months warranty from NA, for the original purchaser only. The warranty is not transferrable.

For Nikon DSLR bodies, there is no such thing as an international warranty.

If the camera body you purchase is sourced from anywhere else - DD, HKS, B&H, your local gardener - you only have the seller's warranty, whatever that may be. HKS and others are reputable sellers and offer 12 month warranties on a "Back to Base" basis. That means that you have to send the body back to the vendor to get a warranty claim.



Non-new cameras: Nikon, DSLR bodies.

As the Nikon warranty says that it's not transferable, then there will not be any factory warranty on any second hand Nikon DSLR body. Ever.

If, on a case by case basis, a vendor specifically states that a second hand body has a warranty, then it will be up to the vendor to support any such statements, and thus provide you with a warranty. The only people qualified to speak on behalf of that vendor will be that vendor.

I was unaware that the fix rate of cameras was up to 39%, that is quite high

I'm unaware of that too. In some instances, I've seen it much higher. Two years ago, my personal experience with Nikon Oz stock was that it was greater than 100%. 4 cameras - all Maxwell stock - personally known to me enjoyed 5 visits to the repair shop, including one DOA. All of these were warrantable issues.

By way of contrast, not one of the 4 grey Nikons that we own has suffered any issues beyond user error ID-Ten-Tee. Is that a problem with Australian stock, or Nikon Quality control, or .... ???? Who knows?

What kinda costs are associated with servicing/repairing a camera though?

Cost of entry will be an initial service charge/quote fee of maybe $70. if you need parts, cheap they are not.

Sometimes, plentiful too, they are not. We've seen one PHD sitting in the shop for two months, languishing on the shelf because Nikon Oz didn't have a shutter switch. This was apparently a common fault, but parts were not readily available. We were unimpressed.

I did not at all suggest that DD wouldn't honour their warranty. I said that Nikon Australia will not honour DD's warranty. If you buy Australian stock, you can take the camera to any authorised Nikon repairer for a warranty repair. If you buy from DD, you will have to return it to them for repair. This may mean additional cost (shipping back to DD) and additional time (them shipping it to HK or wherever for repair). These are things you need to consider. It doesn't make DD bad, it just makes them (and other grey sellers) different.

It should be noted that many people have had poor experiences with warranty repairs (and repairs in general) through Nikon Australia with the amount of time they take to do the repairs. It is entirely possible that a DD warranty repair takes less time than a Nikon Australia one, despite the former having to ship to HK and back.

Thanks a lot for the feedback and info. I'll let you know how I go.