HELP! Advice needed for camera purchase.

[BetaMax]

G'day
I am recently in the market for my first time dslr camera.

I have done a bit of reading in places like dpreview.com, although the amount of information there is both enormous and overwhelming. As a beginner I don't find the site terribly useful, as they seem to give the same "Highly Recommended" label to almost all the cameras they review; although you've still got to admire the sheer volume of information that’s present there. Essentially I am looking for a good all round, relatively compatible camera for anything around $700 - $800. Although I'm not sure exactly what I want to shoot yet, I have made a short-list of the following:

Nikon D60
Olympus E-420
Canon EOS 1000D

I would really appreciate any thoughts/opinions/experiences/comparison/suggestions concerning these models, or any other entry levels for that matter such as the Sony A200. Being a student my main consideration is price; but I would prefer to have features like LiveView and image stabilisation or anything else you could recommend as 'essential'. And if possible something with good lens compatibility should I decide to get more serious. Also I have heard some stuff about Olympus's 'three fourths' system being the only brand to have redesigned their lenses for digital slr cameras rather than adapting them from film cameras. Being a complete newbie, I don't even know if what I am saying is true, but is 4:3 something I should be thinking about?

So all I basically want to know is: Is there is there actually much difference between these three cameras, or is it just a matter I of splitting hairs?

Cheers,
Dave. (Jandakot, W.A)

[Glen]

Hi Dave, All are good cameras. If you think you may pursue your photographic interests more over the coming years you will find Canon and Nikon have a wider range of lenses available and more second hand in the market. The Nikon D60 doesn't have an internal motor so can't use older non AFS lens in auto mode, the D80 does. Unsure on the Canon. Good luck in your choice. PS Can you stick your location in your profile? Thanks

[gstark]

Dave,

Welcome.

but I would prefer to have features like LiveView and image stabilisation or anything else you could recommend as 'essential'.

Interesting. I would suggest that these two features are "nice to have", rather than essential. I do find that the current state of live view remains more of a gimmick rather than a fully developed feature - it slows the camera down, and one of the reasons for getting a DSLR is to avail oneself of its superior performance. IMHO, the technology is not yet fully mature.

Image stabilisation (VR in Nikon terminology) is very desirable. Nikon and Canon have this technology built into some of their lenses, whereas other manufacturers put it into their body. I prefer it in the lens, and in fact for wider angle lenses, there is little if any need for the technology. On longer glass, I notice and miss its absence. Nice to have - very nice to have, and I am very satisfied with having it in the glass which means that I don't need to look for an upgrade body that has this feature.

That brings us to the next point ...

And if possible something with good lens compatibility should I decide to get more serious.

This is where Nikon and Canon shine, and other manufacturers ... basically are tarnished, especially when compared with their former selves. Olympus glass used to be legendary, likewise Minolta. Today, I don't regard Olympus with anywhere near the respect they deservingly held in the 80s, and Minolta are now a part of Sony, where it's all hands to the marketing deck!

For future lens choices, you really cannot go beyond what Canon and Nikon offer, and I have yet to see Sony being taken seriously in the pro market.

Also I have heard some stuff about Olympus's 'three fourths' system being the only brand to have redesigned their lenses for digital slr cameras rather than adapting them from film cameras. Being a complete newbie, I don't even know if what I am saying is true, but is 4:3 something I should be thinking about?

That's not really true. Both Nikon and Canon have lenses designed especially for the digital (crop format) cameras, although you need to note that the Canon glass may be used on their FF bodies. Nikon glass fits all bodies, DX or FF, as a general guide.

And they both are actively designing new glass as well, although the newer construction methods sometimes do not compare with those of old. Yes, I'm being kind here.

To answer the last question in this paragraph, no, I think that would be short sighted, if you pardon the pun. The 4/3 system has not yet taken the world by storm, and in fact the full frame cameras produced by both Canon and Nikon are proving to be very popular. I'm an old film hack, and am well used to the benefits that FF offers; I see the DX format as fulfilling two different goals.

Initially it was a stopgap measure on the development path in creating the range of DSLRs. It's now viewed as a permanent format, and although there are many entry level bodies, they are all capable of very high quality results.

That raises the question that if you do, indeed, get serious, what are the ultimate paths for your future development? The 4/3 system path comes to a dead end in that realm.

So all I basically want to know is: Is there is there actually much difference between these three cameras, or is it just a matter I of splitting hairs?

WHen we're talking Canon vs Nikon,, in terms of the results that either will help you produce, then no, not a lot of difference. And once you learn the basics on one brand, and become semi-competent, a camera is a camera is a camera, to a large extent.

However, we all have different hands, we're all built physically different from one another, some are left-eyed, some even like Holdens or Fords. Each brand has its own ergonomic features, and they all handle differently. Wander into a camera store, and have a play with those that you are considering. How do the controls feel to you? Camera controls? Lens controls? does it feel comfy at your eye? can you carry it around without difficulty? do ancilliary controls fall easily to hand? How easy is it to change settings? Can they be done using one control wheel, or do you need to hold down three buttons and then make a menu selection?

Those are the points that you need to consider.

And finally, and as Glen mentioned, please put your location into your profile ...

(Jandakot, W.A)

would be perfect: it is exactly what we require.

[Ant]

However, we all have different hands, we're all built physically different from one another, some are left-eyed, some even like Holdens or Fords. Each brand has its own ergonomic features, and they all handle differently. Wander into a camera store, and have a play with those that you are considering. How do the controls feel to you? Camera controls? Lens controls? does it feel comfy at your eye? can you carry it around without difficulty? do ancilliary controls fall easily to hand? How easy is it to change settings? Can they be done using one control wheel, or do you need to hold down three buttons and then make a menu selection?

Just to reinforce what Gary is saying here, when I bought my D50 I had narrowed it down to two bodies, the D50 and the 350D (I think). I had pretty much decided on the Canon until I went into a camera shop and had a good play with both bodies. The D50 just felt better in my (and my wife's) hands. As the camera will probably spend a lot of time in your hands after you get it, this is a very important consideration.

Ant.

[aim54x]

So all I basically want to know is: Is there is there actually much difference between these three cameras, or is it just a matter I of splitting hairs?

WHen we're talking Canon vs Nikon,, in terms of the results that either will help you produce, then no, not a lot of difference. And once you learn the basics on one brand, and become semi-competent, a camera is a camera is a camera, to a large extent.

However, we all have different hands, we're all built physically different from one another, some are left-eyed, some even like Holdens or Fords. Each brand has its own ergonomic features, and they all handle differently. Wander into a camera store, and have a play with those that you are considering. How do the controls feel to you? Camera controls? Lens controls? does it feel comfy at your eye? can you carry it around without difficulty? do ancilliary controls fall easily to hand? How easy is it to change settings? Can they be done using one control wheel, or do you need to hold down three buttons and then make a menu selection?

once you learn the basics you will find you have the ability to move from one to the other without too many dramas, the idiosyncrasies of the competing brands will take a little longer to get used to. However you will find a very similar control set in each of the three cameras you have listed.

To answer your question of if there is any difference...

Nikon D60
-10MP (I dont care about the 0.X's), 2.5in screen, self cleaning sensor, VR in the lenses, 3AF points, stopmotion video (pretty gimmicky)
-NO: liveview

Canon EOS 1000D
- 10MP (see above), 2.5in screen, self cleaning sensor, IS (VR equiv) in lenses, 7AP points, liveview (also gimmicky)

Olympus E-420
-10MP (ditto), 2.5in screen, self cleaning sensor, liveview (gimmicky), 3AF points
-NO image stabilisation, smaller 4/3 sensor (2x crop vs 1.5x (Nikon) and 1.6x (Canon))

Personally I would not worry too much about the 3 vs 7 AF points, but the 1000D (if you like the feel) is on paper the better featured camera. If you were inclined to go Olympus then consider the E-520 (adds IS on the body). Of the three I would go the D60 (it feels better in the hand to me - BUT THAT IS ME) but would consider the EOS 1000D.

Also (if your budget allows) have a look at the Nikon D80 and D90 for something with a little more grunt (features, usability)

BUT most IMPORTANTLY go into stores and get your hands on all the them before you make a conclusion.

[bigsarg7]

Hi, and welcome.

I am an owner of the Olympus e510, and in all honesty theres not much difference between the 510 and 520. So being cheaper i'd opt for the 510, but you mention you were looking at the 420, i felt in hand that it was too narrow and the grip just didn't feel secure, so i picked up the 510 and fell in love with the size of it, its not too heavy actually quite light compared to others, and the overall size is smaller when using them. Being a female I was after something that wasn't too bulky and had the IS in the body as i couldn't afford the lenses with stabilisation in them (although i am sure you can get some cheaper lenses with it built in). I'm currently doing a photography course, where i have now learnt that the 4/3 system is annoying when you compare it to the likes of cannon an nikons system, they seem to get more in the image. (Or so the teacher showed us) A classmate owns a Nikond50 (i think) and it seems quite bulky but looks nice and feels nice, so i'd agree with everyone about going and fiddling around with different cameras and finding one that suits you.
I wise person once said to me "Its not the camera that makes the shot perfect but the user who sets the settings to maximise the shot using the lighting available".....It's all about the light!
I do love my e510, but lenses aren't the cheapest thing, so i'd buy the dual lens pack.
Let us know which was you choose to go!
Kristen

[aim54x]

The E-510 has been discontinued, and you are right, there is not a lot of difference in a E-520, but the E-520 will probably be easier to get your hands on

[bigsarg7]

it has been discontinued yes, but as a result the price has dropped a lot since i brought it. I think the only difference that can be easilly noticed is the screen size, from 2.5" to 2.7" not worth the extra money in my mind, so i'd search for the 510. hehehe sorry aim! heheh

[BetaMax]

This forum is amazing,

So I went into JB today (who coincidentally had 10% of all cameras) and had a good touch of the Canon 1000D and the Nikon D60. Unsurprisingly the level of sales advice was mediocre; but I did at least get a feel for the two designs. For me, the Canon felt a bit 'plasticy' and compared with the Nikon and the D60's button layout made a bit more sense. So I'm pretty much set on the D60 now, possibly with the twin lens kit. My sincere thanks for everyone's advice, it was so useful that I think I may have known more about the cameras than the actual camera guy at JB. Anyway, all I need now is a magical price . JB had the D60 only with the twin lens kit for 1270 + 10% off special. Just judging from the various prices I have seen so far though I think I can do alot better. Does anyone know of any good online australian camera stores?

Thanks again,
Dave

[chrisk]

ECS is aussie Nikon warranty and has a pretty good deal on the d60.
http://cameras.net.au/

remember that the nikon D60 does not hav a built in AF motor so the lens' you buy must be af-s lens' if you want auto focus.

[Mr Darcy]

DD photographics are pretty good. Grey market, but they do honour their warranty. JB was beetter price till their 10% off deal finishes though.

http://www.d-d-photographics.com.au/nikond60.htm

[aim54x]

Camera House will do it for $1099 for the Twin VR kit (ie 18-55mm VR + 55-200mm VR) and I have seen some advertise for as low as $1049.

Hope that helps.

[Murray Foote]

The cheapest price on http://www.shopbot.com.au is $975 at Camera Action: http://www.cameraaction.com.au/call1300 ... 45&dept=18

[aim54x]

that is not the Twin VR kit, the Twin VR kit means 18-55mm VR + 55-200mm VR

http://www.cameraaction.com.au/call1300-303-191/products.asp?sku=198631&dept=18

2nd from the bottom under kits $1039

[Marvin]

DD photographics are pretty good. Grey market, but they do honour their warranty.

http://www.d-d-photographics.com.au/nikond60.htm

[r2pn23]

http://www.digitalcamerawarehouse.com.au/prod5178.htm

they have the twin lens kit for $1049, i believe their flat rate postage to anywhere in Aus is $16 and if you believe the feedback on their site delivery is usually within 24hrs
I ordered a Canon EOS 1000D twin lens kit last thursday at about 9.30am and had it in my hands by 3pm Friday
i was really impressed with their service, prices and feedback from other customers. you also get the manafacturers warranty and the opportunity to buy extra through them at the time of purchase

Hope this helps

[Glen]

Welcome R2, your comments for digital camera warehouse made me smile "even to remote locations", I didn't realise Penrith was counted as remote from Canterbury? I thought maybe somewhere like Humpty Doo may be counted as remote?

[r2pn23]

thanks for the welcome Glen
the remote part was refrencing the user feedback ive read from others, not necessarily my own experience

[Glen]

That makes sense, it is best if people to post their own experience rather than hearsay, the reality is you have no idea of the veracity of that feedback.

[r2pn23]

no problem, ive edited the post