DX lenses... forum opinions...?

[cyanide]

Posted by Birddog in another thread, regarding a possible future replacement for 85mm f/1.4:

What may be replacing the king of portrait lenses Birddog?

dunno, perhaps a DX or AF-S

My immediate thought when I read this was that I would be really tempted by an AF-S but really disappointed if they went DX....

I wondered if anyone else feels (or felt, and has since reconsidered) this way? I know that a lot of people believe that the DX format - ie more suited to smaller sensors - is here to stay, but I still have (somewhat inexplicable) reservations about investing heavily in them.

Realistically, I have an unreasonable yet stubborn resistance to DX lenses... totally unjustifiable by any logic, but just a "hmmmm, not sure if that's the way I want to go"-type feeling... I thought perhaps some "counselling" from other members might be what I need.

So far I see the really good lenses (I suppose I am talking about primes, here) are all older, non-DX lenses... do you think it is just a matter of time before Nikon brings out a full range of DX lenses, including primes, phasing out all non-DX lenses?

I know it will be easy to respond to this post just by saying, "Look, DX is here to stay, get used to it", but I interested in any thoughts beyond that, that people might have on this issue. I certainly don't mean to imply that I think the existing (or future) DX lenses are/will be any lower quality than non-DX.. for example, I know that many people swear by the 17-55 DX, and from photos I have seen, that is undeniably a great lens...

I dislike the idea of buying something that I will only sell later to upgrade, which is why I am trying to get fairly high-quality glass right from the beginning, even though I know that it will outclass my abilities as a photographer by a long way, for probably quite a long time. I know many people do this (sell/upgrade lenses) regularly, but the idea spooks me a little, lol. I guess more so, the idea of having a heap of DX lenses, then suddenly realising that the body you want, is only available as non-DX compatible, worries me. Even though that is/may be so many years down the track, I look at some people's lovely lens collections that they have built up over years and years, and that is what I want...

Anyway, until I can feel comfortable with DX, I am exploring all the non-DX, excellent glass options first. Haven't found a gap that *only* a DX lens would fill perfectly, so...

So far, I have: 50mm f/1.4, 60mm f/2.8 macro, 20mm f/2.8 (last two secondhand off ebay, still winging their way to me)... am seriously looking at the 70-200 VR, and am also lusting from afar, after the 85mm 1.4, but that is a while away yet... oh, and I do have the DX kit lens, which I bought mainly because it was such good value and I could use it in situations where I might not want to risk other, more expensive glass (eg beach...)

I am curious to hear your thoughts. Sorry for the long-winded, somewhat rambling post. Just thinking aloud....

Cheers,
Rae PS I thought I'd read a similar topic before, but then couldn't locate it... hope it's not YART.

[Link]

People seem to be happy with their DX lenses now but I understand your point about long-term planning. Canon's top end DSLR are full-frame; and if they become successful at marketing "full frame = better quality" in the mind of the general public, then I guess Nikon will also have to go full frame in the future.

For instance, if I had the choice between the Sigma 12-24 and the Nikon DX 12-24, I'd probably go for the Sigma for its versatility m(can also work on a full frame sensor). That said, I don't think Nikon will abandon the DX sensor anytime soon - especially not on its prosummer models.

Link.

[Onyx]

Cyanide, your fears are not totally unfounded.

As Link mentioned, it's largely Canon's fault that people believe or expect Nikon to go full frame in the near future. As far as I'm aware, Nikon has committed to the one standard sensor size for all DSLR models they've brought to market so far, and interviews with Nikon engineers (published on Nikon Japan's website) have confirmed that they will keep to the APS-C size for the foreseeable future.

However, quite rightly, there's no guarantee how far into the future they're foreseeing. It could be a decade, it could be half a decade with their seemingly newly refined product life cycles.

There has only been a handful of DX lenses released so far, and for every one of them, there is an equivalent full frame model. eg. 12-24DX: the 17-35 or 18-35 on film would give that wide field of view. 17-55DX: I believe the 28-70/2.8 is its closest sibling. 18-70DX: 24-85AFS, 28-105, et al.

[birddog114]

Nikon has just released the F6 and there will be of non DX lenses released this year or next year.
The Dx market is just started and not having many lenses so far:
10.5 F.E/12-24/ 18-70/ 17-55. The Dx market will be mainly in zoom lens.

So we're expecting few more to come and Nikon will stick with the Dx for a long period, on the other side Nikon still maintain the non-Dx line, will make more available into the market, but re-modelling of their all "full metal jacket" as economical of today market or adding AF-S to AF-D and VR to non VR, sure they're more plasticky then the previously version in "consumer" range but well build with solidity in "Pro's range".
If the AF-S 85/1.4 released in AF-S type, we still don't know its quality yet until we try it. IMHO, I don't think it'll exist! none of Nikon prime less than 200mm are built with AF-S so far I can see, zoom lens perhaps will be. Another target into consumer range are all with zoom, it's the today's market demand, the prime or high end prime will be used for the Pro and they ain't cheap.

[MCWB]

We already know Nikon has the technology to use a tighter crop that the existing sensor size (D2X high-speed crop mode); it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if this was incorporated into a Nikon full-frame dSLR (if they manufacture one), that way you can use both full-frame and DX lenses to your heart's content. If I was Nikon that's what I'd be doing anyway.

Edit: typo.

[the foto fanatic]

Yes, it's a very interesting point, isn't it? I can understand the reservations that some people may have.

However, I think Nikon has, by and large, done a good job with these lenses in terms of performance. I'd be expecting them to build on their technology and improve these lenses even further.

I also have a nagging question: "Why buy a lens and only use the central portion of it?"

[cyanide]

MCWB - very true, that is a possibility. At least then if you also had DX lenses, you could still use them, and gradually replace them if you so chose.

cricketfan - lol, my +1 always gives me shit because I am constantly musing about how to "keep my options open" with every decision, be it the plan for our next holiday, or what colour shirt to buy ("this one goes with blue AND red!!" etc .... I now see this has continued into the lens lust area also!!

Birddog - good point about not knowing what the "new" 85mm might be like - just because the last version was excellent doesn't necessarily guarantee that the next one (assuming there even is one) will be the same (although it should be close, you would think).

[ipv6ready]

I am no expert and there are many in this forum who knows better but I would be worried about obsolesence?

I know Nikon have a great tradition of "Sticking to a format" but in this electronic age what if the market decided the DX format is tooooo small!

Canon is racing toward larger --> 35mm lens Full Frame CCD.

Am i incorrect in thinking that a DX will be unusable if Nikon "had" to increase the size of the CCD.

Yes the body is expensive but lenses are almost priceless if you had to replace a lot of them?

[Onyx]

I know Nikon have a great tradition of "Sticking to a format" but in this electronic age what if the market decided the DX format is tooooo small!

Canon is racing toward larger --> 35mm lens Full Frame CCD.

I disagree about Canon racing towards larger imagers. They're quite content to keep the existing confusing three tiered range of DSLRs, each with its only sensor size with no uniformity, so the poor Canonite's range of lenses could potentially behave quite differently on each body.

With P&S imagers getting progressively smaller each generation, and lower end DSLR bodies getting smaller too, I can't see the reversal from the standard DX sized imager to something larger. It just doesn't fit the trend IMHO.

[birddog114]

Canon is not successful in their full frame sensor, perhaps Canon will have another format, and their multi size of DX sensors are there to stick .