DSLRUsers.com

Briefly:

* Kindergarten graduation party (don't ask)
* Relatively wide stage, such that shots at one end are dark towards the background
* Uneven downlight illumination (horrible combination of hot halogens and cold flourescents)
* Lighting changed frequently for different events on the program
* Nikon D90, 2 x SB800

I have previously sought to overcome this by placing an SB800 on a stick at one end of the stage, bouncing from the ceiling, controlled by an on camera SB800. When everything is behaving itself, I get shots like this and this. When it isn't, I get shots like this and this. Over exposure is a constant concern, and dark shadows in the background and corners don't help. Nasty video taken on my D90 looks like this and this (note how horribly dark the stage is when the lights are off).

I typically shoot on a D90 with 2 x SB800s and an 18-200/3.5-5.6. This year I shot on a mate's 24-70/2.8, which was a distinct improvement, but lighting was still unpredictable and video (this time with an XLs), plagued by bad lighting (not to mention bad handling, the video qualty is shockingly awful, but it shows you the lighting conditions).

I need to finish processing Saturday's shots to demonstrate the uneven results I received (sometimes you can really see the overexposure resulting from the OCF), but suggestions would be welcome on the basis of the information provided thus far. I am wondering if the ceiling bounced flash is still too harsh and insufficiently controlled, and if I should be using a softbox or an umbrella or something else. I definitely need to mount a light on the videocamera.

Fortigurn wrote:* Kindergarten graduation party (don't ask)

and that video was so cute!


I have no experience in this area but in theory......
1. You could take the ambient approach and surrender to the ambient. Use fairly high ISO 800 or so and fill with flashes (needs to be gelled to match the most prominent ambient source). Keep on CLS so that you can adapt automatically to the changing ambient.

2. You can take the flash approach. This one is more fun.
I would feather your bare SBs on both sides. Perhaps Gel one of them to keep the feel of a multi colored concert. You will need more flashes though. Ideally another two or so. You could light the background (gelled) by one and perhaps add a hair light (gelled) using the other. You could possibly do both with one but that will recycle slowly. Perhaps you could use CLS but manual should be ok.

Keep your ISO high enough for your flashes to recycle fast but low enough for the ambient to dissapear. If you use CLs you can use high speed sync I think. If that's the case, just bump the shutter to above 1/200 and the ambient will dissapear. But then your flashes will lost some 'power' and will need to be moved closer.

Using modifiers for this sort of situation is tricky when using speedlites.

3. Have you tried a small fast prime for your shots? 50 1.8 or 85 1.8?

good luck and hth.

Thanks, that's very useful. The video is ghastly, but still makes me smile. I love the way little kids dance. I like the idea of option two. Between now and next time I should be able to muster up a total of 2 x SB600 and 2 x SB800. I have rarely gelled my flash before, and experienced unsatisfying results when I did so (probably because I didn't have much clue about it). I used a green gel on my ceiling bounced SB800 to try and counteract the horrible green cast from a room with green tiles. The result wasn't that great. Here's a photo which I reworked in Lightroom to remove the green cast (still unpleasantly visible around the outside corners of the eyes), in the same green tiled room.

So, basically I have no idea how to gel or feather a flash properly. I haven't tried a fast prime, because I don't have one (or access to one). In any case, even the 24-70 really made me work, because the zoom range is so short I had to run all over the place if I wanted a closeup. Shooting with a 50 woudl have been impossible.

I don't think trying to correct a colored surface reflecting colored light is a good idea. You probably could, but only when you understand color theory and obtain a color meter of some sort... I am unsure how to do this.

You only generally correct for the color of the light source itself.

This will give you the basics.
http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101-using-gels-to-correct.html

Infact, reading the whole strobist blog lighting 101 and 102 wouldn't do any harm. [Apart from taking about 2 weeks to take it all in. ]

Unless you are printing very large, there is no harm in cropping to get a pseudo closeup.

You will have to make some compromises to make this setup work.

Thanks very much, this is very useful. It's good you've returned me to the Strobist blog. I read 101-102 last year, but didn't think to check there this time. When I do print, I print at 8 x 10 at least. I have a set of gels for my SB800, but I don't find them particularly user friendly, they seem to slip and slide out a lot.

Here's a case in point, from the day in question. Notice the left side, brightly illuminated by the OCF, good skin tones on the boy in front, though nasty flaring on the ceiling (not to worry, I would crop that out), and dark towards the background. You can draw a line between that and the right side, dominated heavily by the hot lights and badly over exposed. The OCF definitely needs to be better directed, and probably softened as well.



I think I really need to spend some time there practicing, but unfortunately that's just not possible (it's rented only for the occasion)

Fortigurn wrote:I have previously sought to overcome this by placing an SB800 on a stick at one end of the stage, bouncing from the ceiling, controlled by an on camera SB800.

Define "controlled".

Please.

Are you using the flash units in manual mode, auto, TTL ... ??? Synched only?

Over exposure is a constant concern, and dark shadows in the background and corners don't help.

And what mode is the camera in?

To me, this is a situation where you need to take control of the lighting, but only as it affects your images. As you are shooting with a flash, you can pretty easily eliminate most if not all of the impact that any stage lighting will have. The advantage of this is that you are in control, but you lose the impact of any drama that reduced stage lighting might add to any scene.

That said, this is a kindergarten show, right? The biggest drama will be some kid not wanting to share his chocolate bar with the next kid.

Lighting: set the SB-800s to manual, full power. Place one toward each side of the stage directed towards the stage. Each of them should be stand mounted, and as I said, directed towards the stage: many stages have curtains and stage lights instead of ceilings, and you do not have a ceiling from which to bounce your light. Rather than use a modifier, I'd move the lights slightly back and slightly inside from the sides of the stage. This will give you something closer to even illumination towards each side of the stage, as well as towards the center. While the light might be harsher than you want, modifiers are probably going to cost you too much in light output; that's a trade-off you'll have to bear.

Camera: Manual mode. On camera flash on, and given that you're shooting from off the stage, probably dial the on-camera flash down to 50% power. Set the camera to command both flashes, or use a wireless controller on the hotshoe.

Take a couple of images - 1/200 @f/5.6 and chimp. Adjust your exposure accordingly.

At a 1/200 shutter speed, any variations in the stage lighting should not have a major effect on your shooting, and thus your flash will be the primary light source for the images. You should be aiming to shoot in the realm of f/5.6 - f/9.

With video, you will encounter real problems with the D90, because its not really a low light shooter. Grab an inexpensive video camera, like the Flip, and use that instead.

gstark wrote:

Fortigurn wrote:I have previously sought to overcome this by placing an SB800 on a stick at one end of the stage, bouncing from the ceiling, controlled by an on camera SB800.

Define "controlled".

Please.

Nikon flashes can communicate with each other as part of what Nikon refers to as its 'Creative Lighting System'. This allows the SB800 and SB900 to act as master strobes to multiple subordinate strobes.

Wikipedia wrote:Current Speedlights and other Nikon accessories make up part of Nikon's Creative Lighting System, which enables various Nikon cameras to control multiple Nikon flash units by sending encoded pre-flash signals to slave units.

More information is available here. In this case I had one SB800 on camera, acting as the master for a subordinate SB800 on a lightstand.

Are you using the flash units in manual mode, auto, TTL ... ??? Synched only?

In TTL mode, synched.

And what mode is the camera in?

The camera was in aperture priority mode, the lens was a 24-70/f2.8.

To me, this is a situation where you need to take control of the lighting, but only as it affects your images. As you are shooting with a flash, you can pretty easily eliminate most if not all of the impact that any stage lighting will have. The advantage of this is that you are in control, but you lose the impact of any drama that reduced stage lighting might add to any scene.

That said, this is a kindergarten show, right? The biggest drama will be some kid not wanting to share his chocolate bar with the next kid.

This sounds very sensible. Loss of dramatic impact is the least of my worries (it's a kindergarten graduation, not Götterdämmerung). Thanks very much for your detailed lighting advice. I'll have to see if I can get an opportunity to try it out before next time.

With video, you will encounter real problems with the D90, because its not really a low light shooter. Grab an inexpensive video camera, like the Flip, and use that instead.

It's ok, I typically don't use the D90 for video, and I didn't on this occasion. I don't need an inexpensive video camera. As mentioned in my original post I already have an expensive one.

Fortigurn wrote:

Are you using the flash units in manual mode, auto, TTL ... ??? Synched only?

In TTL mode, synched.

And what mode is the camera in?

The camera was in aperture priority mode, the lens was a 24-70/f2.8.

And I think that letting the camera and flash try to do the work is essentially what the problem may be.

Stage lighting - any type of stage, really - can be very difficult to address, and you really need to decide how you want to attack the problems, and then deal with them.

gstark wrote:And I think that letting the camera and flash try to do the work is essentially what the problem may be.

Stage lighting - any type of stage, really - can be very difficult to address, and you really need to decide how you want to attack the problems, and then deal with them.

Thanks Gary, your suggestions were very useful. I have a mate here who has invited me to use the studio of a friend of his to try out various lighting configurations (and maybe try a little model shooting if I can summon up the courage), and I'll see if I can experiment with the setup you suggested here. I should be able to learn something.