Loading custom curves

[gecko]

Hello all

I am trying to get my head around custom curves etc...
To load a custom curve into the D70 do I need to do it through Nikon Capture (which I don't have) or is there some other way....

Cheers
Gecko

[gstark]

NCC is the way to do it. It comes with NC, and you can download a trial version from Nikon Asia.

Be sure to DL 4.0 or thereabouts, and then upgrade it, rather than downloading the latest version.

[robboh]

There are two ways of applying a custom curve, in-camera and directly to the NEF once on the computer. The latter can only be done with RAW files (not JPEG).

The former requires Nikon Capture. This lets you download a curve to the camera and appears in the Image Optimisation menu. You can select the curve or chose to use the normal camera optimisations.

Curves are primarily used to manipulate JPEG output from the camera, however using curves is still applicable when using RAW, IF you are using NC. This is because NC will chose the curve when you open the NEF, if it was selected in the camera (I think, you MAY have to manually chose the curve from a dropdown menu). Other RAW apps ignore this custom curve information. I beleive that there is also a sort of curve file that NC can load and apply to a NEF, even if the curve wasnt in the camera at the time the pic was taken.

There is an app called 'Curve Surgery' which supposedly will let you apply different curves to a NEF. Ive never used it and probably never will since its a Windows app and Im on a Mac.

In short, yes, you need NC to load a curve onto the camera. However you can play around with NEFs on the computer without NC.

A trial version of NC should have come with your D70 which is valid for 30 days. Do a search of the forums for a message from 'Allan' and you may find something there which will help.

[Onyx]

Yep, you'll need Capture to do it right in the camera. Curve Surgery is strictly for after, or alternatively manipulate tone curves in PS which visually does the same thing.

[Alex]

I believe that PSCS 2 recognises curves.
Alex

[gstark]

There are two ways of applying a custom curve, in-camera and directly to the NEF once on the computer. The latter can only be done with RAW files (not JPEG).

The former requires Nikon Capture. This lets you download a curve to the camera and appears in the Image Optimisation menu. You can select the curve or chose to use the normal camera optimisations.

Curves are primarily used to manipulate JPEG output from the camera,

No, no, no, no, no ...

Well, not exactly.

You need to understand the differences between the adjustments to curves that you might apply in PP, and the underlying curve upon which an image is built. They're very different creatures.

As you correctly point out, using a tool like Curve Surgery permits you to change the underlying curve for an image, and I guess the absence of a Mac version is a shame, because it is a very good tool.

I dunno, but perhaps it will work under WINE on OSX or Tiger?

[MattC]

Alex, PSCS2/ACR3 does not recognise the camera curves. The curves feature in ACR3 is similar to that in PS.

Cheers

Matt

[darb]

yep you need to use the nikon bloatware (only time i use it is to load a curve or play with remote control.)

also change the USB mode of your camera from mass storage (where it appearas as a "disk") to PTP mode

[darb]

ps, fellas, when i shoot RAW and import nef into CS via ACR, it doesnt apply my curvef does it? (i dont want it to, i want to do it all myself manually)

[robboh]

No, no, no, no, no ...
Well, not exactly.
You need to understand the differences between the adjustments to curves that you might apply in PP, and the underlying curve upon which an image is built. They're very different creatures.

Agreed regards the difference between an in-camera curve and applying it post. Something to do with linear v's non-linear demosaicing IIRC, but Im on pretty shaky ground there knowledge-wise. Which is why I didnt start going down to that level. I was more just trying to point out that there are non-NC options, but definitely agree that they dont work in quite the same way.

As you correctly point out, using a tool like Curve Surgery permits you to change the underlying curve for an image, and I guess the absence of a Mac version is a shame, because it is a very good tool.
I dunno, but perhaps it will work under WINE on OSX or Tiger?

Yeah, the concept certainly seems nice (Curve Surgery) and I seem to recall that the guy who did the photogenics curves was involved in its development.

WINE will probably never work on OS X as they are different architectures. It doesnt even work on non-x86 builds of Linux as far as Im aware. Shame though, and yes, it would have been nice
I do actually have a decent PC here at home as well, so might get all keen and give Curve Surgery a try on that one day, once I actually get around to having a decent play and read-up on curves. Oh, and I have to fix the HDD which sh*t itself in the PC the other day

[MattC]

ps, fellas, when i shoot RAW and import nef into CS via ACR, it doesnt apply my curvef does it? (i dont want it to, i want to do it all myself manually)

Spot on Darb. Just the way you like

Cheers

Matt

[gecko]

Thanks for all the info everyone

I have downloaded NC4 today and will take it home and have a play over the weekend. I loaded it into my work computer but don't have any NEF's or D70 with me so couldn't actually do anything.

Should I update to NC4.2 straightaway?

I would like to add that this forum is terriffic. I have learnt soooo much from forum members sharing their knowledge. My photography is greatly improving as a result....

Cheers
Gecko

[gstark]

ps, fellas, when i shoot RAW and import nef into CS via ACR, it doesnt apply my curvef does it? (i dont want it to, i want to do it all myself manually)

When you shoot raw, the curve that you currently have selected - in the camera - is what is used for the exposure, and that curve should be reported by ACR/NC/NV/NCE or whatever as being the one in use when the exposure was made.

[gstark]

Should I update to NC4.2 straightaway?

Make sure that you apply your registration key to your installed version prior to doing any upgrading.

I would like to add that this forum is terriffic. I have learnt soooo much from forum members sharing their knowledge. My photography is greatly improving as a result....

Glad to hear this; that's what we're about.

[darb]

hmmm ... so the image i see in ACR is infact an image with curve applied? (the actual ACR doesnt make any mention of curve.) If so thats OK too ... coz i dont mind it being a bit brighter right out of the box ... for times when i just go RAW > Sharpen > JPEG as an automation. (usually ill manualyl do each raw though, but sometimes if theyre just non important pics ill just dump the nefs into jpeg and im done.)

[MCWB]

hmmm ... so the image i see in ACR is infact an image with curve applied?

Not sure about ACR, but it certainly is for NC. There's a drop-down box in NC where you can select which curve you want (out of the OEM ones and your 1 custom one loaded into the camera), and the default is whatever you selected in the camera. I would have thought ACR did the same, it makes sense that the default curve be the one selected in the camera!

[darb]

yeah NC and ACR read the nefs differently, have never seen ARC mention curves ... so whether it gets a truly "raw" nef with no curve applied, or not, im unsure

i guess the way to test is to pull a NEF into ACR, and then compare it to the same NEF being pulled into NC (with the "camera's curve" enabled.) and see if theyre the same.

[MattC]

Darb,

ACR (including ACR3) ignores your custom camera curve completely. NC, NVE and RML are the only raw convertors that I am aware of that use curves info from a NEF.
For raw to jpeg, I use NC. I find that I have a much better chance of getting reasonable jpegs without PP using NC because it uses camera settings. I simply add a bit of sharpening in the batch and resize. These images are only ever used for proofs which I burn to CD for other people, so that they can tell me which of them they want. I also warn them that they are unprocessed.

Cheers

Matt

[darb]

yeh thats cool, part of my automation in photoshop grabs a nef, sharpens with my standard USM, boosts saturation, and a hint of brightness & contrast increase ... dumps them to TIFF or PSD where i will have a glance, modify any that "need it", and then run another job to dump them out to JPEG.

Cuts my processing time dramatically

of course this doesnt apply to "special" shots where i spend waay too much time pawing over post processing

Wouldve been nice if ACR did have ability to choose to obey or disobey the curve, but no matter.

[Alex]

Alex, PSCS2/ACR3 does not recognise the camera curves. The curves feature in ACR3 is similar to that in PS.

Cheers

Matt

Ok my appologies then, Matt. I remember reading somewhere that ACR3 recognished the curves.

Cheers
Alex

[MattC]

Alex,

No dramas. I think that the introduction of the curves tool in ACR3 has led to some confusion regarding camera curves.
There seems to be a lot of misinformation and bad advice (on a lot of subjects) circulating over on that other forum. There also seems to be only a handful of people that actually have any idea of what they are talking about.

Cheers

Matt