The Big Question

[Nnnnsic]

Does history matter?

Dad and I are working on ways to constantly have the data backed up without needing to go through GoDaddy, however, while we're doing that, we've learned the our provider for this site, the previously mentioned GoDaddy, for some reason or another can't do individual table restores and HAVE to do the entire database.

So here's the question:

Do we continue from where we are now or backup using previously restored data?

To let you know, we'd be restoring from the point of Monday, the day before the current POTW.

We would lose everything that has happened thus far if we choose to move on, and we'd lose everything that has happened this week if we chose to use the backup.

Now, here's the bits new members might like to know:
If you joined after the site got hacked, if we were to use the backup, your entries would be deleted, however now that we're running our own backups, that could be rectified and fixed by indivudually replacing the tables and parts of the database ourselves.

This is an urgent question, and it's answer is a pretty pressing one.

Ultimately, the decision is gstark's.

However, we here in the admin department of DSLRUsers.com would love to know what you all think.

[dooda]

seems like losing one week is better than losing an entire year. But that's just me.

[birddog114]

We better have all back as the history of this forum, losing 1 week work is not a pain and loosing the full 12 months is more drama.
If we lost all 12 months then we have to rebuild from start!

[Oneputt]

I agree with Birdie.

[Sheetshooter]

At the risk of earning the abuse of others I say it is best to simply move on. Use this week as a new beginning and keep a trim system.

I doubt that many use the past posts as a reference library - there seems so much material that the ease of research has long disappeared. While it would be a shame to lose the library of POTW winners there is little else of real import in my opinion. After all, this is a discussion forum and the whole point of discussion is that it is current.

Had the hack never happened this issue woud obviously never have arisen, but since it has, use it a system flush. In preparation for relocation I have just been through this process in the real world. Magazines and books that I will never read again have been given away or sold. As I said a few weeks ago 4 tonnes of stuff got the toss and it has made me feel great. I think the same could apply here.

[birddog114]

At the risk of earning the abuse of others I say it is best to simply move on. Use this week as a new beginning and keep a trim system.

I doubt that many use the past posts as a reference library - there seems so much material that the ease of research has long disappeared. While it would be a shame to lose the library of POTW winners there is little else of real import in my opinion. After all, it is a discussion forum and the whole point of discussion is that it is current.

There are heap of useful threads with reference, link, discussion which we can point to or use them or doing researching from new members.
And at least we the history can be retaining from the day 1 of this forum.

[the foto fanatic]

I vote for restoring.
I believe there is a lot of useful information in the past 12 months plus of images and posts.

[MHD]

restoring... I have lost all the rules threads for the comps!

[gleff]

I vote for moving on. How can you be sure that the backup doesn't contain compromised code that potentially caused the hack.. I suppose there's no easy answer there, but it's only a week.. it's been almost a week now of the temporary system, so either way we lose a week or thereabouts.

That's just me... i'm sure whatever decision is made will be the right one.

Geoff

edit: Okay.. I just realised the full scope of moving on... I change my vote.. backup it is.. otherwise as MHD said, things like previous threads of importance will be lost etc.

[fozzie]

I would like to see a full restoration. Losing one week is no big deal considering the overall impact of losing everything prior to the hacking.

[pippin88]

I vote for a full restore.

It is not possible to shut the forums down for a while, backup (at home) the new database), then merge it into the old once that's here?
No idea how hard that would be though.

I prefer to lose a week than the year.

[leek]

Full restore...

The amount of wisdom contained in the forum previous to Monday is many times that entered since Monday... Please restore...

[Paul]

Full restore, way too much great info & discussions will be lost if we dont.

[birddog114]

To All,
There are ton of efforts and harvested fruits from hard labour works of members in this community since it started, each post from members, regardless of good, bad, fun, joke, hatre etc... is a brick to build the foundation of this forum as of today, it's not easy to have the same full strenght as before if we are ignoring the full restoration of what we have lost recently which we can't prevent, we will accept the outcome of what we can retrieve, but it's lot of better full restoration than we let's it go and start it all over.Then we're the looser of their dirty game which I hated

[radar]

I vote to restore. As others have said, there are lots of useful threads that I keep going back to. Or doing a search first, does save me the time to ask the question again, not to mention, others having to repeat themselves.

But as you said Nnnnsic, it is gstark's decision and I'll go with that.

Cheers,

radar

[leek]

Oh... btw... IF money is a factor in the decision, I'm sure that a lot of us would be willing to contribute to the cost of restoring the system...

[kipper]

You guys were saying you can't restore individual tables?

Can't you shutdown the site for a day or so (IM SURE YOU GUYS CAN GET OVER IT). Take a snap shot of the DB of the last 3-4 days, get GoDaddy to upload the new DB or send you the DB via email or retrieve via ftp/http etc.
Then update the specific tables that you wanted to update at home and run a script or something to update the merged DB back to GoDaddy?

I dunno, just trying to think of a solution to this dilehma (sp?)

[birddog114]

Can't you shutdown the site for a day or so (IM SURE YOU GUYS CAN GET OVER IT).

Aren't you kidding? I'm suffered!!!!!!!

[Frankenstein]

Full restore - the previous posts, images etc etc are too valuable a resource to lose because of the action of one deadshit individual.

Frank

[birddog114]

Oh... btw... IF money is a factor in the decision, I'm sure that a lot of us would be willing to contribute to the cost of restoring the system...

I'm supporting this but I think it's not Gary's wish.

[xerubus]

I vote for restore also.... I still do searches for things that were mentioned in the past... e.g. needed to recode my jaycar remote not too long ago, which was made a hell of a lot easier after doing a search for the original thread which was over a year ago.

all in all however it does come down to Gary, and which ever decision you make will have it merits....

cheers

[Greg B]

Geez, I'm having trouble logging in, even with the recommended fixes!!


OK, I vote for a full restore, and I am also happy to assist with costs.

But like everyone else, I'll support whatever Gary decides.

[DVEous]

... Obsolete ...

[MATT]

Please restore all , I search for info all the time.

This forum is a valuable resource and is a credit to the work you both have put in so much effort.

Besides if we lose it all the HACKERS win





MATT

[Oneputt]

I should have added that if cost is an issue, like others I am more than happy to contribute. The past data must not be lost.

[Link]

Given the choice between any single's week threads and several months's threads, I naturally prefer the full restore (more valuable resources available when using the "search" funtion). That said, I have no idea of the work or downsides involved in doing a full restore; so it's really up to the admins to make this decision.

Link.

[joet]

I vote for a full restore ..... I appreciate the hard work that this entails and also that which has happened so promptly this week, thanks again Senior and Leigh

It remains Gary's decision of course, but it would certainly break some hearts in Forestville to see it all start over from scratch

[sheepie]

full restore please

others have pretty much summed up the reasons

[johndec]

I vote restore. As others have said there is too much valuable info archived.
I'd rather lose a week than a year.

[stubbsy]

Full restore. Too much wisdom to discard.

Oh and BTW - you realise none of us can vote (no button) so the count at the top is meaningless

[PiroStitch]

Full restore

[DaveB]

I think the old stuff should come back, but if you can preserve most of the recent stuff also that would be icing on the cake!
Even if the site was down for a day for piecemeal restores, I'm sure Birddog would still be breathing by the time it came back online.

But if the last week's stuff HAS to go then so be it. We should all have been treating it as temporary anyway.

I'm not sure what we can do to help. I'm sure there are many of us with database/php/unix development and admin skills, but there can be too many cooks and as we've been told: in the end the decision's up to gstark.

[marcotrov]

Restore sounds good to me but ultimately its your decision Gary.
I believe,however, consideration needs to be given to the greater good and long term survival of this invaluable forum. May the faecal matter of a thousand elephants be heaped on the pusillanimous perpetrator that forced us into such a decision.

I think you will be supported whichever way you go Gary. In your capable hands we rest.
cheers
marco

[Glen]

Full restore, you know there are pictures of the cake I made in there!!

Am happy to help defray costs.

[stubbsy]

Another quick comment. I have made very few posts since the site went down in the expectation my words of wisdom would vanish - somthing I was happy to live with. I suspect this is the case for others too. Personally I can't say I recall anything of great import from the last few days that a full restore would trash.

[Aussie Dave]

I can see there are pros & cons for both scenarios. I am happy with whatever Gary (or the Admins decide upon), as it is ultimately your baby !

However, I also feel like many others do, that the information contained within the many previous posts/threads in valuable to many people (newbies & D70Users.com veterans). To lose all that info would be a shame, in my eyes anyway - however most of those that contributed with this info still frequent the forum today, so I'm sure any questions anyone had would soon be answered by any number of the prolific posters

Looking forward to the BIG DECISION ! Glad it's not me

[olrac]

I started reading this thread in the mind that well a fresh start is a good thing based on the fact that i dont really read the historical posts just current ones.

After reading the comments though it would appear that i am the exception rather than the rule.

So if you can beat 'em join 'em

Restore away.

[genji]

...palimpsest...

it appear previous writing are still legible...

[gstark]

You guys were saying you can't restore individual tables?

Can't you shutdown the site for a day or so (IM SURE YOU GUYS CAN GET OVER IT). Take a snap shot of the DB of the last 3-4 days, get GoDaddy to upload the new DB or send you the DB via email or retrieve via ftp/http etc.
Then update the specific tables that you wanted to update at home and run a script or something to update the merged DB back to GoDaddy?

GoDaddy tell me that it's all or nothing.

I'm pretty confident that I should be able to backup the current contents of the site on a daily basis, and add that data back into the mix.

The primary issue for me is to make sure that we get the right backup from which to restore. They're quoting up to 72 hours to do the work, and of couwe're already 2.5 days beyond the event.

With the combined factors of (a) me doing daily backups, but (b) me not having any idea of when they will actually perform the restore, there is sure to be a minor loss of data. This will primarily occur within the members, posts, and private messages tables.

Downloading and comparing the contents of those tables for reuploading isn't going to be a major deal, I believe. My primary concern - and reason for being upset - is that it just takes them so bloody long!

FWIW, I'm working on automating a means of downloading and uploading the SQL data despite their controls. We're 90% there for DL the data, but the one hurdle is that we get an error at the point of actually saving the file. We're pretty sure it's related to URL redirections that occur throughout the process, and I've replicated a system here so that we can do some further testing on this.

Bottom line - I'm probably looking to do the restore ...

[gstark]

Oh... btw... IF money is a factor in the decision, I'm sure that a lot of us would be willing to contribute to the cost of restoring the system...

I'm supporting this but I think it's not Gary's wish.

Money isn't an issue.

But thanx for the thoughts on that.

[Killakoala]

Sweet.

Good luck Gary. A couple of days without the forum is better than missing a whole year.

[cyanide]

As others have said, the posts of the past week - while not lessening their value/contribution - have, as far as I have been concerned, been on a short lifeline anyway.... we *were* warned that they would be lost... and I suspect that many deeper discussions have been "postponed" during this time.

Conversely, there have been many useful and detailed posts in the past year plus... so I think my vote is obvious..... full restore, please.

Also happy to contribute to costs, however minor they may be

[olrac]

People have been offering money to help.

In addition to this do you need some technical resource help to get you over the line?

Just a thought

[kipper]

Gary, I understand it's all or nothing that is why I'm saying shutdown the site. Get GoDaddy to restore the whole site to what it was as of what a week ago. Then can't you take a dump of the DB via some web based interface. Or is there no web interface to do this? If that is the case then that just plain sucks.

[johnd]

My 2 cents worth is shut down, restore from Monday's backup, then come up again with the status as at Monday's backup. Anything posted or changed since the backup would be lost. Trying to incorporate recent changes will be a nightmare for the Admins who already have a hard enough job to do. I don't think individual members having to do a few re-posts (if they choose to) will be all that onerous for the membership.

[moggy]

My 2 cents worth is shut down, restore from Monday's backup, then come up again with the status as at Monday's backup. Anything posted or changed since the backup would be lost. Trying to incorporate recent changes will be a nightmare for the Admins who already have a hard enough job to do. I don't think individual members having to do a few re-posts (if they choose to) will be all that onerous for the membership.

Would agree with this, but at the end of the day it's Gary's decision and I'll fully support that.

Bob.

[gstark]

Gary, I understand it's all or nothing that is why I'm saying shutdown the site. Get GoDaddy to restore the whole site to what it was as of what a week ago. Then can't you take a dump of the DB via some web based interface. Or is there no web interface to do this? If that is the case then that just plain sucks.

Well, I'm actually one step ahead of what you're suggesting, I think.

Consider that we do our full restore, but that I also have a backup of the database taken within, say 12 hours prior to the restore occurring.

As soon as I can after the restore I shut down the site, and then load, via the web interface, the new messages, topics and members that have been added to the database since the problem occurred.

I would need to also look at the message counter table, to ensure that new messages posted after the restore but before I could merge the tables at GoDaddy were dealt with in a proper manner - probably deleted, because they would duplicate some of this week's messages.

That doesn't seem to me to be an overly major task, and it hopefully permits us the best of all possible solutions.

By way of contrast, getting GoDaddy to provide me with a copy of the database so that I couls, for instance, manually merge and then upload the complete tables from here, would be a major headache, because the uploads require splitting into 30K (IIRC) chunks which each need to then be uploaded separately.

Doable - and I'm going to work on creating an automated procedure for this - but butt-ugly when it has to be done manually.

[Glen]

Gary, I also agree if we have to shut down for a day or two to get the full restore I am for it. Lots of good info in there.

[kipper]

It will give some of us something to do if you do shut it down, like taking photos

Hey, speaking of which. Did anybody catch the moon on wed night?
There were like 3 stars (or planets) around it in various positions.
Looked awesome and was annoyed I didn't have a tripod head or my 18-70dx

[birddog114]

Gary, I also agree if we have to shut down for a day or two to get the full restore I am for it. Lots of good info in there.

I'm packing up now! See Ya!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!