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Hi everyone!

It's me again with my stupid film and paper questions. Despite this forum is digital there are plenty of experienced people here and at last but not least it still about photography

Yesterday, I did something I didn't do for about 15 years - wet B&W printing. Enlarger DeVere 504, Dichromate Colour head, paper Agfa Multicontrast, developer - Ilford multigrade. Everything seems to be OK except contrast - instead of being black and white, my prints come out greyish-grey. Accordingly to Ilford's "Fact Sheet. Contrast Control" I can use magenta and yellow filters of colour head to control contrastness and to get max grade, with DeVere, I have to use max. magenta (160) with min yellow (0) and cyan (0). So, it doesn't work for me Under red light everything looked OK but when I brought them out - my prints were horrible. I scanned these negatives recently and they are OK and I could reach desirable contrast without PS or other tweaking.

Possible thoughts:
1) Faded magenta filter (enlarger is quite old) but it doesn't look very faded)?
2) Old paper? I've got a stock of papers from the guy who sold me the enlarger and he says he didn't print for almost 2 years
3) Developer? Should not be old and was sealed
4) Paper underexposure?
5) Something wrong with my head or hands? (Don't ask, I'm not going to change anything)

Thanks for your help and time in advance!

Mikhail,

How was the paper stored?

Could you buy a small pack of fresh stock and maybe just run off some contact sheets. That would help narrow down the problem.

If the chems were sealed and powder based then they should be ok, but IIRC Multigrade is liquid, and thus it may have acquired Morris Iemma status.

What about your fixer? How fresh are those chems, and how long did you let the paper sit in the fix bath before turning on the lights?

Looking at this from another PoV, are you seeing any signs of solarisation in the prints? If so, that would indicate that the safelight isn't compatible with the paper, and what you're seeing is fogging rather than a lack of contrast.

But I'd be putting money on either the paper or the chems.

Honestly, I've got no idea how paper was stored. Looks like it was kept in dusty garage
Developer is liquid and I didn't manage to find any date on labels thus can not tell how old is it. Fixer is fresh and I used this concentrate to develop and fix few films in few past weeks only (for prints I prepared separate stock 1:9 as recommended). I keep papers in the fix bath for at least 2 minutes.

There is no any sign of solarisation if you mean that solarisation should look like pencil drawn picture instead of photo

Forgot to tell that safelight came with enlarger and all the other stuff and it seems to me that previous owner used it with the very same paper

In my experience - now 15++ years ago - the freshness of chemicals was an important issue. They all had limited shelf lives.

I haven't used multigrade paper, but grade = contrast level, so that would be the next place I would look. Personally, fresh developer and some grade 2 paper would be where I would start.

Hlop wrote:There is no any sign of solarisation if you mean that solarisation should look like pencil drawn picture instead of photo

That's one typical solarisation view, but not what I'm suggesting here. Look at the images obliquely, and see if there's any "silvering" evident. I really don't know how to describe it, but I think you'll know it f you see it.

But I'd be grabbing a small box of fresh paper and dev, and trying again. These seem to me to be the most likely culprits.

But one other question. I presume you're not using a specially set up darkroom, but more likely a converted ... some other room.

Light leakage? Any light leaking in?

Any dark leaking out?

Thanks a lot!

I'll try to get some fresh materials and give it a go again

Sure, I do not use specially set up dark room - this is bathroom dark room. Window closed with thick cardboard and sealed with black tape. Door is sealed partially with black tape (I can't seal it completely because my girls will kill me if they will be unable to kick me off from time to time and use bathroom). There is very minor light leak from this door but it is behind my back and it doesn't reach place where I'm working. From my previous experience It's dark enough but I might be wrong

Hlop wrote: From my previous experience It's dark enough but I might be wrong

No. It sounds fine to me. I've worked under similar conditions.

Emulsions and chems can and do go off, so this is the first port of call.

try setting the paper to print as a grade 4 or 5, this should fix the grey look, make sure you develop the exposed paper for at least 1:30 minutes or you will get a grey result. If your paper developer is too diluted will also give you grey results.....

if you are still getting grey results, the paper is too old.........

To test if it's age fogged paper or not:

Place a sheet under the enlarer and cover a section of it (coin/cardboard etc) and expose the rest to the enlarger light (no neg).

Develop normally.

The section covered should be bright white if the paper has not gone off, if it is grey, the paper is off.

make sure you are using the correct safe lights....... with no visible cracking........ or any stray white light........ no matter how little it may be

Thanks for your help, guys!

Big Pix,
I've checked safelight carefully before printing - it's absolutely OK. Also, I've set enlargers magenta filter to get maximum possible contrast - with cyan and yellow set to 0 and magent set to 160 I supposed to get about 4.5 grade which hasn't happened.

Developer is diluted 1:9 as recommended by Ilford and I'm always developing all the way to the end to get details in white area and juicy shadows in black

Going to do what mikephotog suggested to test paper's age fogging and "coin" test to check safelight if it's suitable for this type of paper

seems like you have a bad batch of paper........ just old, it will not have much contrast.........

Actually, I just thought about what mikephotog said - the edges of prints were under easel frame and they seems to be normally white (I'll doublecheck at home). So, paper isn't age fogged probably ....

Hi! Thanks for your replies, people!

Here is a couple of examples of scanned negatives:


On prints, I'm trying to achieve something similar or bit more contrast but when I'm getting proper blacks, whites are grey and vice versa

I'm certainly doing something wrong - I've tested the old paper (exposed without negative half covered) and the safelight (two minutes beamed coin at paper) - everything is OK and as suppose to be. Exposed to clear light paper comes out with pure black and pure white areas and there is no trace of coin on safelight exposed paper.

Also, I've bought some fresh paper and developer (fixer and stopper were fresh from the very beginning). Another, thing I've tried - Ilford multicontrast filters (below lens version). Old paper - Ilford MGIV and Agfa multicontrast. Fresh paper - Agfa multicontrast. Same result.

Mikhail
Process some paper samples without exposing them. If they come out gray then the paper is stuffed. Also...place some paper around your darkroom and place coins, keys etc on them. Leave them out with your safelights turned on for 5 minutes and then process them. If you can see the outline of the objects then the safelights are faded or the wrong type. It's most likely out of date paper though.

increase the strength of your paper developer, say 1:1 or 1:2, this will help with adding contrast......... I am away for a week, but I have a chart which gives the colour head conversions for multi-grade papers, i will try and find it if you want. You must develop your prints for at least 1:30 minutes for the blacks to develop

or try a different paper developer.......... different strengths give different results...... the powder paper developers I found were best

I have found that if the product says use this filter for grade 4, it is closer to grade 2, so just increase contrast in big amounts.

your stop bath, or water bath, and fixer will not effect the contrast if at the correct strength or even a bit weaker

Thanks, guys I'll try totest light leaking and try stronger developer concentrations

BP,

Thanks, but I've got those charts from Ilford. Also, I've got a set of Ilford Multigrade filters.

Hlop wrote:On prints, I'm trying to achieve something similar or bit more contrast but when I'm getting proper blacks, whites are grey and vice versa

Scans from the negs look ok, but how does the neg itself look?? Are the highlights really dark, or is the neg quite dense?

Have a look here for some contrast-related printing tips. Actually, the whole series is worth a perusal.
http://www.nyip.com/tips/topic_black_white_17.php

From what I remember, a Grade2 filter on multicontrast paper is 'normal' contrast and you will need to go 'up' in number to increase contrast. You'll need to increase your enlarger exposure times once you go over grade 3.5

I'd also suggest doing some max-black tests to get a good baseline for exposure times. Basically, you do a series of differing time exposures (like test strips) on a filmbase+fog neg (ie developed blank neg at start of strip). Develop as per normal and then pick the exposure that gives you no differentiation between the two. This basically gives you the exposure time to produce a max black shadow on a print.

Now do a grade2 print of your neg for that exposure time, develop the same as your test strip and see what you get. Now play a bit, but only alter one thing at a time

My guess is that you arent developing for long enough (maybe dev temp is too low?) or that your negs are a bit overexposed, though they look fine from the scan.

Hlop wrote:I'm certainly doing something wrong - I've tested the old paper (exposed without negative half covered) and the safelight (two minutes beamed coin at paper)

You bet me to it, I was going to suggest testing the safelight while I was reading through the thread.

Hope you get this sorted, these will look great with a good print.

Just reading your post immediately, I thought it could easily be the enlarger.

In Uni, I was always the one to use the colour heads for black and white because of the amount of control that gave, but you might be using too much magenta for your paper or the bulb may be dying and not strong enough for the the degree of magenta you're using.