DSLRUsers.com

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_ ... -7891-8214

Has most of the updates I was hoping for (except the additional AF points of the 5D, and no 'C' mode). "Only" 8Mp though, which will be a surprise for many people.

Canon is definitely on the right track with 10d, 20d and now with 30d. The one feature i missed is bigger viewfinder like those in 5d and 1d series.

regards,

Arthur

More like a 20D MkII to me

Yes, agreed. Surprising to see only 8mp.

they didnt try to hard to out do the D200, looks like Nikon is one up on Canon

8mp is plenty. The 20D users will be happy with the improvements.

ps. I love the NEW EF 85mm F1.4 L (II) lens

Try F1.2 Shutterbug Yep you are right and real lens lust material.
cheers
marco

8Mp will be fine, and I think on the whole the image quality will compete well against the D200.
I wasn't expecting the new noise reduction, the "spot" (3.5%) metering, or the change in auto-rotation handling, but I can see at least two of those things being of benefit to me based on my 20D experiences.

I'm waiting to see the rest of the Canon announcements: am hoping for some new lenses. We've seen one on the 30D photos (the 85mm/1.2 II) although I haven't seen the announcements yet.

The biggest thing that surprises me about the 30D is the name: I can imaging the confusion on eBay between the D30 and 30D... I think someone at Canon's marketing department needs a brain implant!

got too excited f1.2

As per usual the Canon is excellent at the higher ISO ranges, there is where it kicks the Nikon. This is going to be a good camera and worth thinking about if you dont need full frame or a pro body...

the 20D is used by many pro's in the wedding industry

That is a bit disappointing was hoping for better ergonomics .

Having a look at the specs it appears that a whole new product name (30D) is a bit over the top. It looks very similar to the D70 --> D70s upgrade. Perhaps the 20D MkII might have been more appropriate (to use Canons naming conventions).

Although I am a Nikon user, I'm a bit suprised and disappointed that Canon didn't try to at least match the D200. Disappointed as competition is healthy. Suprised as I've never seen Canon NOT try to trump the competition. Perhaps they were caught on the hop by the D200's specs and it was too late in the development cycle to change much??

At a glance, it matches the D200 in fps and LCD but gets creamed in viewfinder, MP's and possibly most importantly (to me) buffer. 8mp to 10mp is stuff all, but it is usually Nikon users saying things like that . If the 30D exceeded the D200 in the important bits I mentioned above, it would be at least the equal of Nikons offering. BTW, the 30D is receiving a somewhat less than enthusiatic response on the Canon forums at the home for the insane (dpreview)

johndec wrote:Perhaps the 20D MkII might have been more appropriate (to use Canons naming conventions).

Or the 20Dn maybe?

At a glance, it matches the D200 in fps and LCD but gets creamed in viewfinder, MP's and possibly most importantly (to me) buffer.

What on earth are you doing that you need that much buffer?
Sure, 22 RAW images (D200) is bigger than 11 RAW (30D). But the 20D is "only" 6, and when using a decent CF card I've been more than happy with the 20D, even though it was a "downgrade" in that department from the 10D. But the 20D flushes the buffer fairly quickly, and even when shooting wildlife the 6-shot buffer's rarely been a problem for me. I expect the 30D's buffer will take away those last niggles (at least for me and my shooting style).

Two lenses announced so far (EF 85mm/1.2 L USM II, and EF-S 17-55mm/2.8 IS USM). Maybe that's it for now, maybe there'll be further developments soon.

DaveB wrote:What on earth are you doing that you need that much buffer?

Sports photography, although I must admit that 11 would probably suffice but 22 isn't to be sneezed at.. Please also note that I wasn't listing this spec as a weakness, just as a comparison.

The 30D looks like a fine camera, especially so at $US300 less than the D200. As a D70 user, I consider the D200 a value for money upgrade. If I had a 300D, I would consider the 30D similarly.

However, if I was a 20D owner, I would skip the 30D, wait 18 months for the 40D which will be a D200 killer camera. Then Nikon will bring out the D(Whatever) and so the never ending pissing contest will continue

If I were a prospective canon owner I'd get my hands on a cheap 20D

I'd have to say, if I was a 300d owner, I'd be shopping for a used 20d. There isn't that much of an upgrade here considering the change from the 10d to 20d, and the d100 to the d200.

dooda wrote:I'd have to say, if I was a 300d owner, I'd be shopping for a used 20d. There isn't that much of an upgrade here considering the change from the 10d to 20d, and the d100 to the d200.

dooda,
All major players now know all the tricks to empty your bank account and credit card.
Not surprised me at all.

Birddog114 wrote:dooda,
All major players now know all the tricks to empty your bank account and credit card.
Not surprised me at all.

We are all testimony to that fact?

Whether it's a 30D, 20D, D200, D2X or D70 - the biggest influence is still the person standing behind the camera.

If we can all pull off such sensational images from the D70 (as is constantly seen on this forum), then anything higher up the food-chain is going to be great.

Of course, those of us that require such things as faster frame rates or bigger buffers may lean towards the upper-eshelon cameras, but for the most part, any dSLR released from this point forward is going to be reasonably decent (IMHO). Some will have obvious advantages over others, but for manufacturers like Nikon & Canon, as much as we think they have halfwitt marketing teams, they know what is selling and what is coming up for release in the future.

There is obviously a reason why the 30D is only 8MP.....and as stated, MP means nothing these days (except to market cameras to uninformed shoppers). Perhaps their market research has shown that most people do not print any larger than 8x12" OR 16x20" ?? If this were the case (and I would be surprised if it is not the case), then 8MP is more than enough. Sure you can crop a 12MP image much more and it gives you flexibility - or you could frame the shot better from the beginning. Home printers are primarily only as large as A3, and with the prevelance of sharing photos over the internet, 8MP seems somewhat overkill.

As long as my D70 keeps taking photos, that's all I'm worried about. The rest is just marketing hype that makes the world go around....

Just my point of view

[/rant]

Lens choice has a much greater impact on image quality than camera body, though the gap is made smaller somewhat with different quality sensors (high ISO performance, grain quality, colour quality etc). The body figures most into the experience of taking the photo (something I take interest in) as I take great pleasure in the experience of clicking the shutter closed, setting my camera up, framing the scene etc. Though this could feasibly be done with a point and shoot, the experience wouldn't be the same. I quite enjoy changing lenses, cleaning the glass, testing what the different ISO's and apetures give me. In this case, the body has much to do with the experience of photography, which might indicate that perhaps the desire to own a nice camera body may be compelled by more than simply the desire to consume. It's also the desire to improve the experience. As long as you aren't decieving yourself into thinking that the camera body is going to give you better pictures (only very marginally so).

If you invest in a product that pays you back in a renewed sense of inspiration and enthusiasm, and you have the disposable income to upgrade etc, than I would think it's money well spent. A friend told me about a dude that went out and bought a d200 and didn't know anything about photography. I wouldn't think that his experience is going to be that pleasant compared to getting something friendlier like the D70.[/quote]

dooda wrote:I wouldn't think that his experience is going to be that pleasant compared to getting something friendlier like the D70.

You mean like thehikingdude's friend with the D70? Hopefully that guy's experience won't be as bad...

Some purchases should be packaged with a 1 hour session to the therapist, but that's a different thread.

I might be interested to get a second hand 20D.

Good gear makes photographer's lives easier, that's for sure.

I'm sure I'd get in trouble from the other half if I sold my 20D and 'upgraded'.

petal666 wrote:I'm sure I'd get in trouble from the other half if I sold my 20D and 'upgraded'.

Nah! she'll be happy when she sees your smiling face with the new toy.

pricing in Australia

The RRP's of the 30D for Australia will be as follows:
Body Only: $2,299.00 (Shipping late February/early March)
With 18-55 lens: $2,499.00
With 17-85 F4-5.6 USM: $3,298.00

Hmmm. Don't think I will be trading my 20D. If it had a few more megapixels I may have been tempted, but the new features while nice just aren't enough.

Spot metering, that's got to be worth a coupla hundred.

I just pre-ordered a 30D from Dirt Cheap Cameras for $2065 including delivery. I called them and they claimed they were expecting delivery next monday (!) which I am VERY sceptical about. However, I just want to get one ASAP so I can get out there and shoot, so we will see how it goes.

What I find interesting is that the Canon Australia site says it will be shipped early March and yet the American site says April. I find it hard to believe that we would get it before the Yanks. I bought the 300D when I was in the states the day it came out which was months before it landed in Oz.

I'm upgrading from a 300D after a lot of frustration with the limitations of that camera. It has served me well, but the 30D will be a godsend (bigger buffer, 5 fps, spot meter, better everything etc etc) although I must say that I am a little surprised that Canon didn't upgrade the sensor.

Schniff, you know the biggest advantage if you upgrade from the 300D to the 30D? just having to delete a zero from your sig line..I too am looking very seriously at this, the 20D is a great camera, this will be even better..

Schniff wrote:What I find interesting is that the Canon Australia site says it will be shipped early March and yet the American site says April. I find it hard to believe that we would get it before the Yanks. I bought the 300D when I was in the states the day it came out which was months before it landed in Oz.

Actually it's not unusual for the new cameras to arrive here not long after the U.S., but the problem is that it's usually only in small quantities, and these tend to be snapped up through waiting lists and not arrive in stores until a while later.
My D30 and 10D bodies were each literally in the first batch to arrive in Australia.

I now know of Australians looking to get their 30Ds through Dirt Cheap, through Adorama in NY, and through local dealers. It will be interesting to see who comes through first (and at what price).

There is a bit of confusion going around. In the US Amazon listed the 30D as arriving in May. In Canon's worldwide announcements they said they were introducing two cameras to coincide with the camera's arrival in March, and then listed the 17-55/2.8 as arriving in May and the 85mm/1.2 in March.
We just have to wait and see...

Looks like a great paperweight

Tim

DaveB wrote:Actually it's not unusual for the new cameras to arrive here not long after the U.S., but the problem is that it's usually only in small quantities, and these tend to be snapped up through waiting lists and not arrive in stores until a while later.
My D30 and 10D bodies were each literally in the first batch to arrive in Australia.

I now know of Australians looking to get their 30Ds through Dirt Cheap, through Adorama in NY, and through local dealers. It will be interesting to see who comes through first (and at what price).

Well, if the shipment does come in next week Ive got mine reserved! I'll keep you posted.

petal666 wrote:Spot metering, that's got to be worth a coupla hundred.

Mmmm, yes and no. If I ever have any qualms about metering accuracy I just bracket anyway.

Like I said, there are some good features, just not enough to sway me. Had the MP count gone up, I would be on the pre-order list right now.

Rang DC and it hasn't come in yet. From all accounts DC are a good outfit so I don't think they will screw me around. I was hoping to have the 30D for the weekend though.

I would love to be able to keep my 300D as a backup, but I don't think the Missus will let me (she doesn't even know yet!). Looks like 300D, 18-55 and 55-200 will be going on ebay...

Dirt Cheap aren't bad. I know a few people who've used them, with no really bad stories. I bought a 17-40/4 through them some years back, and when the 20D came out they had a deposit from me for one (which they refunded with no hassles when I withdrew my order: gave up waiting and got one from Adorama).

I hear that (at least in Melbourne) Canon's giving a presentation about the 30D to dealers tomorrow...

Speaking from my 20D experiences: once you get used to the 30D the 300D would see very little use!

Dave, how long were you waiting before you gave up and ordered the 20D from the US?

Can't say I'm really interested in the new camera, but this new lens certainly does look nice.

Schniff wrote:Dave, how long were you waiting before you gave up and ordered the 20D from the US?

It's no particular slight on DirtCheap...

I got my D30 in the first batch via Camera Exchange, then skipped the D60. Got my 10D in the first batch via Camera Exchange again, then didn't decide to get a 20D in the first batch. I left it for a while, so by the time I decided to jump on board the waiting lists were ~50 deep (and I was on several lists, not just @ DirtCheap). I then waited ~2 months before "snapping" and buying overseas (I'd been buying smaller items overseas for some time prior to that, so the process was familiar to me).


Oli, yes the EF-S 17-55mm/2.8 IS USM does indeed look nice (as long as you only have 300D/350D/20D/30D bodies). It will be interesting to see how it stacks up against the EF 17-40mm/4 L USM.

Yeah, the 17-55 IS is interesting. I would have thought that as this focal length range the benefit of IS would not be worth the added expense.

Personally I think that getting a 17-40L and a 50mm prime would be a better choice. THis combo would be cheaper and also compatible with FF should you choose to upgrade.

Schniff wrote:Yeah, the 17-55 IS is interesting. I would have thought that as this focal length range the benefit of IS would not be worth the added expense.

Having had a 28-135mm IS lens since 2000 I can assure you that IS can be useful at all focal lengths! It's not just a tool for telephoto work.

Photocontinental in Brisbane has 20x 30D's yesterday and another 70 on order. They are selling at $2049 which is pretty good for a new release camera.

I recently sent an email off to Dirt Cheap for the cost of the Sigma 30mm F1.4 lens.

It took them 5 weeks to respond with an email asking if it was for a Canon or Nikon mount (Ok, I forgot to mention that part). I replied back within 2 hours saying it was for a Canon mount. Took a further 3 weeks for them to come back with a cost.

I had purchased the lens by this time. I won't try Dirt Cheap again based on this service.

Cheers

All my dealings with DC have been by phone. I haven't tried to deal with them via email or web (just use their web site to check prices).

It's here!

I have a beautiful new 30D sitting on my desk: I'll take some photos of/with it soon and post them later in the day!

DirtCheap is currently expecting their batch on Thursday: Camera Exchange in Melbourne got them yesterday. Dirt Cheap is very slightly cheaper, but I decided to go with my friends @ CameraExchange anyway.

Lucky bastard!

Looks like I definitely won't be getting it before the weekend now, as even if it arrives tommorow it has to ship from Sydney to Adelaide.

Dave, look forward to hearing your opinion on this camera...