DSLRUsers.com

Any one able to assist me with this...

I'm going to a presentation at the weekend where there will be maybe 80 people in a cosy room. I'll be about 6 metres from the stage with my 20D and 580EX Speedlite using 17-85 lens.

Can you suggest a good setting to have my equipment set to?

Cheers

Mal from Cessnock
check out my smugmug
http://malcolm.smugmug.com

Hard to tell without seeing the room. You say it's cosy so I'm assuming you have a low enough ceiling to use bounce flash. I usually shoot in manual when inside and bounce the flash off the ceiling. My common settings would be 125 shutter, f/4.0-5.6 and ISO 200-400 depending on the distance to my subject. I set the FEC to +2/3 on the flash. Take a test shot or two and have a look at the histogram. If I'm not getting the desired result I'll adjust the FEC a little.
With your lens not having a constant aperture it would be best to set it to f/5.6 so your settings will not change when you zoom in and out. Try bouncing the flash in manual mode, 125, f/5.6, ISO 400 and FEC +2/3. You might also want to try a slower shutter to let in a little more ambient light and therefore a little more of the background will show in the shot. I wouldn't drop it much though, because you will begin to get ambient blur.
Good luck and get there early so you can take some test shots and experiment a little.

Ive shot the local business awards a couple of times alongside a pro, I shot with the 30d / 20d + 550ex...

I got perfectly fine results shooting in Program, 400 / 800 even 1600 iso at times, the flash in Ettl mode - it does everything.

this was with a diffuser cap (stofen etc) set at about 60'.

shooting in Av puts the 20d into slow sync, so you'll have to keep still if you are wanting to balance the background as well.

go simple - shoot in P, Ettl, 400 - 800 iso.

if you dont have a diffusion dome, try 75' and pull the bounce card out for a bit more light.

Jonathan

jdear wrote:shooting in Av puts the 20d into slow sync, so you'll have to keep still if you are wanting to balance the background as well.

I use Tv or full manual for that very reason.

petal666 wrote:

jdear wrote:shooting in Av puts the 20d into slow sync, so you'll have to keep still if you are wanting to balance the background as well.

I use Tv or full manual for that very reason.

I wouldn't let the camera decide the shutter speed for you. In P or Av the camera will try and expose for the ambient light which will mean slow shutter speeds and blurry shots. You could probably get an acceptable shutter speed in these modes if you increase the ISO to 800 or more but then your image quality begins to suffer. Inside manual is the way to go.

If you have enough light, try shooting ambient light. Your 17-85IS should be able to handle pretty low shutter speeds with ease! At 17mm, you can probably get away with 1/4 sec. At 85mm, you can get away with 1/20 sec.

I prefer shooting ambient whenever I can, because flash ruins a scene. Unless you use the flash really skilfully of course.

Here is where your 20D has a big advantage over other camera systems - high ISO noise is really very well controlled. The pro photographer was using a camera from the "other" camp and he saw my images (see below). He later mentioned that for quite a while he was thinking of jumping ship and my images helped to convince him. I could bump my ISO to 3200 and know that my images would turn out OK.

So this is what I recommend: set your camera to M (or Tv as Petal suggested), set ISO to 800-3200 depending on how much light you have, then set shutter speed at 1/focal length (minus 2 stops in your case, since you have IS). I then either vary the ISO or the aperture to my liking.

If I have to use flash, I prefer a combination of direct + bounce. The main problem in events is that the flash has a white balance of 5500 Kelvin, and events are usually lit with tungsten lighting. So it can sometimes be tricky mixing flash in with ambient and requires skilful use of the flash.

I don't like bouncing flash from the ceiling because it gives nasty nose and chin shadows. Whenever you can, try to bounce flash from walls. I have heard good reports of the Gary Fong lightsphere and I want to give that a try ... so that's yet another option for you.

IN GENERAL you want your flash dialled in -1 eV to make it look as natural as possible and not overpower the scene.

Here are a couple of images, captured on a 20D with an EF 24-70/2.8L. Both ambient, handheld, no flash.

petal666 wrote:

jdear wrote:shooting in Av puts the 20d into slow sync, so you'll have to keep still if you are wanting to balance the background as well.

I use Tv or full manual for that very reason.

There seems to be some confusion here. Let me try to help:

The camera has two metering systems that work in parallel: ambient and flash (E-TTL).

In Av and Tv modes the ambient metering system controls the shutter speed or aperture, and thus in low light you may get shutter speeds slower than you would like, or apertures wider than you would like. In both modes the E-TTL metering will do its own thing (only controlled by your FEC [flash exposure compensation] setting).

In M mode (which I usually use in situations like this) the ambient metering system only controls the exposure meter in the viewfinder: you control the shutter speed and aperture. But again, the E-TTL metering will do its own thing (unless you set your 580EX for manual flash of course).

Murray1006 wrote:In P or Av the camera will try and expose for the ambient light which will mean slow shutter speeds and blurry shots.

No, in P mode the camera will not let the shutter speed go below 1/60s. One way of looking at it is that it assumes that if the light is lower than that the flash metering will come in and save the day...

Amfibius is giving good advice. Practice a bit with M mode and different bounce directions, and it should fall into place.

Sorry to cause confusion regarding P mode. I should of written Tv and Av. P will also do it's best to allow as much ambient as possible but as you say wont drop below 1/60 and relies on the flash to make up the difference. I still think the settings I have suggested are the way to go for the lens and situation outlined. Bouncing from a wall is preferred but sitting in a chair in front of a podium doesn't really give you that option.
I don't think trying to get ambient light shots with the 17-85 lens is really a good option. Yes you have IS but unless you have some strong lights on the subject and meter correctly, or are at very high ISO the majority of your shots wont be sharp. f/5.6 doesn't allow for decent shutter speeds and IS wont stop your subject movement, as little as it might be. Using your flash and dragging the shutter will stop motion but you will still run the risk of ambient blur.
I suggest you experiment a little. Using my suggested settings should give you a lot of keepers, but you will loose some atmosphere due to the flash. Ambient light shots will give you the nicest looking shots, with lots of atmosphere, but can be very tricky to get right if you don't have the experience. It is made even harder without fast glass.
There is some good advice written above, but some experience is needed to get it right. As I said, get there early and try some of the suggested settings and find what works for the room.

Amfibius wrote:Here are a couple of images, captured on a 20D with an EF 24-70/2.8L. Both ambient, handheld, no flash.

The second one was obviously taken in Tv mode...

Cheers
Steffen.

Hahaha, very droll!

I think I'm getting it...

Ambient (I've always called it "available light") and push the ISO in order to get an adequate exposure in M. Am I getting it?

What's the 1/focal length mean? Maybe at 100mm, 1/100sec

cheers

mal from cessnock
checkout my smugmug
http://malcolm.smugmug.com

You've got it.

Amfibius

Thanks for that

cheers

mal from cessnock
checkout my smugmug
http://malcolm.smugmug.com

couple of mine without a flash

i like these photos, cause they have feeling and atmosphere







cheers

mal from cessnock
checkout my smugmug
http://malcolm.smugmug.com

Malcolm

Is your monitor calibrated? All three of these images have a significant yellow cast (WB needs adjusting)

this is a true likeness of the scene photographed

can't do better than that

cheers

mal from cessnock
checkout my smugmug
http://malcolm.smugmug.com

mal from cessnock wrote:this is a true likeness of the scene photographed

So everything looked yellow when your were there? What sort of lighting did they have?

very soft incandescant light, topped off with a lovely fire

why else do you think i wanted to capture the atmosphere?

thanks for the "tip" though

Amfibius wrote:If you have enough light, try shooting ambient light. Your 17-85IS should be able to handle pretty low shutter speeds with ease! At 17mm, you can probably get away with 1/4 sec. At 85mm, you can get away with 1/20 sec.

I prefer shooting ambient whenever I can, because flash ruins a scene. Unless you use the flash really skilfully of course.

Here is where your 20D has a big advantage over other camera systems - high ISO noise is really very well controlled. The pro photographer was using a camera from the "other" camp and he saw my images (see below). He later mentioned that for quite a while he was thinking of jumping ship and my images helped to convince him. I could bump my ISO to 3200 and know that my images would turn out OK.

So this is what I recommend: set your camera to M (or Tv as Petal suggested), set ISO to 800-3200 depending on how much light you have, then set shutter speed at 1/focal length (minus 2 stops in your case, since you have IS). I then either vary the ISO or the aperture to my liking.

If I have to use flash, I prefer a combination of direct + bounce. The main problem in events is that the flash has a white balance of 5500 Kelvin, and events are usually lit with tungsten lighting. So it can sometimes be tricky mixing flash in with ambient and requires skilful use of the flash.

I don't like bouncing flash from the ceiling because it gives nasty nose and chin shadows. Whenever you can, try to bounce flash from walls. I have heard good reports of the Gary Fong lightsphere and I want to give that a try ... so that's yet another option for you.

IN GENERAL you want your flash dialled in -1 eV to make it look as natural as possible and not overpower the scene.

Here are a couple of images, captured on a 20D with an EF 24-70/2.8L. Both ambient, handheld, no flash.

More posts like this please! really helpful, thank you!