It's official: the EOS 7D

[DaveB]

Canon USA press releases: EOS 7D and 3 new lenses.

EF 100mm/2.8 L Macro IS USM (IS, and L!)
EF-S 15-85mm/3.5-5.6 IS USM (hopefully better than the 17-85mm)
EF-S 18-135mm/3.5-5.6 IS

I'm not interested in the lenses, but the 7D body: yes. Shares the same LP-E6 batteries as the 5DmkII, so when I sell my 40D I'll also shed all my BP-511As, dual charger, etc.
No mention of any AF-assist points, but 19 cross-type (horizontal AND vertical sensitive) AF sensors is not to be sneezed at.

Estimated price of US$1700 at the end of September...

[dviv]

Sounds like a sweet camera.

I was drooling over the 5D Mark II but this might be a better option for the price

I can resist anything except temptation

[chrisk]

18mp apsc ? no thanks.
a confusing direction from canon who just downgraded the MP of its G11.

apart from the MP the camera looks sweet. 8fps, 18AF pts, wireless flash, video. they missed the mark on the d300 with the 40d and 50d but this has the d300 fair and square in its sights thats for sure.

[DaveB]

18mp apsc ? no thanks.

See my previous comments on this in the 60D thread. I'm not expecting a deal-breaking problem.

[tasadam]

but this has the d300 fair and square in its sights thats for sure.

And the D300 has been around for how long?
I tried buying a D300 last week, not available any more. Went for D700 instead.

Before posting I had a quick look at the specs of this 7D and movie mode suggests you may have meant the D300s ??

[chrisk]

18mp apsc ? no thanks.

See my previous comments on this in the 60D thread. I'm not expecting a deal-breaking problem.

each to their own i guess. what i do notice with the d700 is the clean-ness of the lower to mid iso files. with the 50d and d300 i always saw a degree of noise. nothing like full frame i suppose. when i was using the MKII i felt the same thing after iso400; there was not the same smoothness. in saying that what i did also notice is how much difference in resolving detail there was between the d700 and MkII. the differences are not just from pixel peeping. i suppose it comes down to what you're really into. no perfect camera unfortunately.

if i was a canon guy the 7d would be a no brainer as a backup to a MkII, shared battery etc, (maybe same grip aswell??). lotsa reach and resolution if you put a 300/2.8LIS on it.

gotta be honest here though, i was expecting a baby MkII from canon, a FF "3D" with video, higher fps and at around 18mp. so this ezxact camera in other words but in FF. i reckon that model would be a freakin killer !

[Potoroo]

Imaging Resource have a hands-on preview and early image analysis of the 7D.

For DaveB:

in brief, the AF system has 19 autofocus points, each of them a cross-type, optimized to detect both horizontal and vertical features with greater ease. In the center of the screen is the X-type sensor, designed to detect diagonal lines as well, and also requires lenses of f/2.8 or better, while the other points will work up to f/5.6.

New to the Canon 7D is the ability to cluster AF points, and move them around the screen. You can also select a finer point than usual, called a Spot point, choosing from all 19 across the screen.

There are so many autofocus options that it can become rather troublesome cycling through them. But Custom function III/6 allows you to disable the ones you don't plan to use so you can save time. A nice feature.

EV compensation has been extended to +/- 5 stops, but I suspect HDR fans really wanted auto-bracketing extended to 5 shots. Oh, well.

[muzz]

Also for DaveB:

Dual-axis pitch and roll electronic level - get the horizon right every time!!

[chrisk]

why cant someone introduce focus bracketing ? that would be way cool.

[Photopotamus]

Sounds like a sweet camera.

I was drooling over the 5D Mark II but this might be a better option for the price

I can resist anything except temptation

Now I just wait to see how it fares in "real world" use.... That, and ask if Santa can bring me one!

[surenj]

Holy carp!

This one is going to be a freaking best seller. I hope the image quality holds up. [I am praying that DaveB is correct!]

Finally! the wireless flash commander. I guess EVERYONE listens to David Hobby.

I am dissapointed about the lack of 5 brackets for HDR. oh well.... can't have everything eh?

[DaveB]

I hope the image quality holds up. [I am praying that DaveB is correct!]

So do I of course. I'm hopefully borrowing a 50D next week to do a few experiments to reassure myself.
Had a look at the samples that DPReview's put up, but as usual they're all JPEGs where the aggressive in-camera sharpening is obvious when you look at 100%. No way to know for sure until we get actual RAW files and support in RAW processors...

Note that while the step up in resolution from the 40D to the 50D was an extra 22% (that's linearly, not for the area) the increase from the 50D to the 7D is only 9% (40D->6D: 33%).

I do find it strange that they're going to offer it as a kit with the 28-135mm IS lens. Maybe they have some stock of that lens they want to get rid of. Can you tell it's not my favourite lens?

I am dissapointed about the lack of 5 brackets for HDR. oh well.... can't have everything eh?

Ya, that would have been nice. But I'm more likely to be using the 5DmkII for HDR bracketing so I guess I'm not that fussed.

None of the previews have mentioned IR remotes (only the N3 cable port) but the photos clearly show an IR window on the grip. So I'm hopeful that the RC-1 remote that I keep on the strap of my 5DmkII will also work with the 7D. It's very useful when you're out in the field and suddenly realise you should have brought the remote cable...

Despite the RAW buffer being quoted at 15 frames, Rob Galbraith notes that he got bursts of 19-20 frames when using a fast CF card. More than 2 seconds of buffer is nice.


Now we just have to wait to find out what it will cost here and when it will arrive.
At least there's no extra focussing screens to get (as for my current DSLRs) and I already have spare batteries, so it's just the body & standard accessories that I'd be after.

I suppose then there'll be the questions of how long to wait for ACR/LR to support it, but I don't think that will take long (ACR releases often have unannounced [not fully tested yet] support for new models, so it's worth checking and not just trusting the release notes).
Also how long to wait for an RRS L-plate!

Of course if I had to wait a while before getting it, my 40D still takes good pictures. But this one does seem to have a lot of useful features for someone like me!

[surenj]

I was just wondering...

Could one just firmware hack it so that it takes 5 or 7 bracketed shots? [heck you could sell this hack because that's theonly thang missing from this camera!]

I suppose there may be no comparison between 15-85 and the venerable 24-105. I wonder whether the 15-85 will be good enough for this sensor...

[Doctor]

Having read through everything, and looking at the specs, seems the perfect body to compliment my 50d at this stage, ill get one instead of another 50d to become my main body given that i mainly shoot motorsport, the 50d will be relegated back to backup body...

[muzz]

DigitalRev have it on their site for AU$2699.95. Current conversion rate from US$1699 is about AU$2026! Canon are already copping flack over their Euro and British Pound pricings, putting it about 1/3 above the US price.

Just about worth thinking about a flight to the US to buy it!

[surenj]

Now the question is, what's Poon's price?

[Doctor]

Thats definatly going to be the killer, the price... Its a pity Canon try to screw us so badly....

[gstark]

Now the question is, what's Poon's price?

As is typical for new items, I don't expect this to be really good until it's been on the streets for a couple of months. I'd expect keen pricing for this in time for your happy new year's presents, rather than as a Thanksgiving offering.

Its a pity Canon try to screw us so badly....

Are you saying that they fail in that goal?

[Doctor]

Its a pity Canon try to screw us so badly....

Are you saying that they fail in that goal?

They do and dont I know im guilty of just coughing up the coin at times for stuff...

[aim54x]

Its a pity Canon try to screw us so badly....

Are you saying that they fail in that goal?

....lens hoods....tripod collars??

However it doesnt really matter who it is, we get screwed in terms of conversions in general be it Nikon or Canon, it keeps all these shady characters in business (well not shady per se, but grey)

[surenj]

Do you mean 'shades of grey' Cameron?

[ozimax]

8 fps, wireless flash triggering, HD video ("supposedly" as good or better than 5Dmkii), titanium frame, maybe tempting...

[Photopotamus]

I do find it strange that they're going to offer it as a kit with the 28-135mm IS lens. Maybe they have some stock of that lens they want to get rid of. Can you tell it's not my favourite lens?

From the Canon AU website:

The EOS 7D Platinum Kit includes the EOS 7D Body, and EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM lens.
The EOS 7D Premium Kit includes the EOS 7D Body, and EF-S 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 IS lens.
The EOS 7D Super Kit includes the EOS 7D Body, and EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS lens.

And a body only... Still no published RRP pricing though.

It seems that the 28-135 offering is only in the US. I've also seen, heard and read that other areas are offering similar packages as we are in Oz.

As is typical for new items, I don't expect this to be really good until it's been on the streets for a couple of months. I'd expect keen pricing for this in time for your happy new year's presents, rather than as a Thanksgiving offering.

Given the amount of press this thing is garnering at the moment, I wouldn't expect to see any sort of a significant price drop ANYWHERE until early 2010. I suspect demand will greatly exceed supply, and that'll help retailers maintain their positions. Sadly, no "Black Friday" deals are likely on this...

[surenj]

I saw somewhere

US$1699 body only
US$1799 with 28-135

Available late September in the US

[DaveB]

As is typical for new items, I don't expect this to be really good until it's been on the streets for a couple of months. I'd expect keen pricing for this in time for your happy new year's presents, rather than as a Thanksgiving offering.

Given the amount of press this thing is garnering at the moment, I wouldn't expect to see any sort of a significant price drop ANYWHERE until early 2010. I suspect demand will greatly exceed supply, and that'll help retailers maintain their positions. Sadly, no "Black Friday" deals are likely on this...

With the 5DmkII last year Canon Australia really fluffed their pipeline and it was months before more than a few cameras came in. Hopefully they're getting a better deal from Canon (Japan) this time, and with a slightly longer lead time (the 5DmkII was announced in mid-September) we hope that 7D deliveries will be made before Christmas!

But it's only when supply starts to exceed demand that the price will start to come down, and my crystal ball's not that clear... My advice: if you want it soon, put an order in now. If you want one eventually and at a possibly better price: just hang on to your current camera and keep using it for a while.

A better price than what? Hopefully we'll know over the coming weeks...


Meantime, anyone want to buy a 40D?
excellent condition, RRS L-plate, Ef-D grid viewfinder, six batteries, dual battery charger, etc.

[Doctor]

Talking to the guys that supply myslelf and a few other users, we are looking at early october... I will have one before mid october, much like the 50d, mainly becuase its fits my upgraede cycle, for no other reasaon really, it seems the perfect compliment to my 50d body, and perfectly timed for myself... I will put a deposit down first thing tomorrow morning for one... call me sucker, call me whatever you want... I WILL HAVE ONE... for no other reason other than its the PERFECT successor to the 50d....

[surenj]

Doctor, how much do you guys expect to pay for the 7D? I have a friend going to visit USA and it seems like it will be about AUD $2100 (body only) if he can bring it back for me . Cheaper to get it from the US + mack warranty than buy it here.

[DaveB]

how much do you guys expect to pay for the 7D? I have a friend going to visit USA and it seems like it will be about AUD $2100 (body only) if he can bring it back for me . Cheaper to get it from the US + mack warranty than buy it here.

That's definitely an option. There are always trade-offs of cost vs. warranty.

As for how much: no-one knows yet. Canon Aus has not told sellers a buy price or RRP yet. That's not stopping people putting their name (and even a deposit) down. When I was desperate to get my 5DmkII prior to my Antarctic trip I had deposits down at two sellers. When the first camera came in I just cancelled the other order and got my deposit refunded. Non-refundable deposits would reduce the number of pre-orders, but I think that could run into problems with fair trading regs, etc.

[Big V]

Chris, you are crazy to buy this without having seen or used one first. No one here has the opportunity to check it out for themselves... talk about a leap of faith - you are going to be using this for motosport and you do not even know if the servo focus can keep up yet. Patience my young warrior, patience!!!

[DaveB]

Didn't he say:

seems the perfect body to compliment my 50d at this stage, ill get one instead of another 50d

?

It may be a gamble, but if it's worse than his current 50D Canon will have big problems on their hands...
At least he'll have a 2nd (known) body which alleviates the risk.

[Doctor]

Chris, you are crazy to buy this without having seen or used one first. No one here has the opportunity to check it out for themselves... talk about a leap of faith - you are going to be using this for motosport and you do not even know if the servo focus can keep up yet. Patience my young warrior, patience!!!

Its no different really to when i got my hands on my 50d, no one i knew had had a play with one, and i hadnt heard anything about the Servo focus, but dont regret it at all... Adobe didnt even have a RAW codec out, i got home from the zoo the afternoon after getting it and couldnt do shit to any of my photos!

Didn't he say:

seems the perfect body to compliment my 50d at this stage, ill get one instead of another 50d

?

It may be a gamble, but if it's worse than his current 50D Canon will have big problems on their hands...
At least he'll have a 2nd (known) body which alleviates the risk.

Your right Dave, if it is worse than the 50d, Canon will lose a lot of customer faith, but as you said, i have the tried and proven 50d there to make sure i get what i need...

I dont need the extra MP, but the extra focus points, and dual processors have me keen to get my mitts on it...

[Potoroo]

Given the 7D's pixel density is slightly higher than that of the 50D it is going to be very interesting to see how well Canon have dealt with the noise (the 7D's pixel pitch is 4.3um, the 50D is 4.7um).

[surenj]

Check out this reasonable (p)review. It's got images for the pixel peepers

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10042-10239

[muzz]

Some Australian prices starting to appear for body only - Quality Camera Sales $2399 and Gerry Gibbs Camera House $2357.90.

Also the user manual is downloadable from here.

[Doctor]

Some Australian prices starting to appear for body only - Quality Camera Sales $2399 and Gerry Gibbs Camera House $2357.90.

Also the user manual is downloadable from here.

Ive also seen prices of almost $4,000 for the body, which puts it awefully close to 5dII prices....

[surenj]

Some Australian prices starting to appear for body only - Quality Camera Sales $2399 and Gerry Gibbs Camera House $2357.90.

Also the user manual is downloadable from here.

That is a rather attractive price...considering the US price is only $200 less. Aussie warranty as well.[not that it's that important to me]

[Photopotamus]

Some Australian prices starting to appear for body only - Quality Camera Sales $2399 and Gerry Gibbs Camera House $2357.90.

Also the user manual is downloadable from here.

That is a rather attractive price...considering the US price is only $200 less. Aussie warranty as well.[not that it's that important to me]

Canon USA RRP for body only is $1699, which is what Amazon is (was) pre-selling them for. Even if you did the conversion conservatively, and added a little for freight/insurance you'd still save a little more than $200. True, no Aussie warranty....

The way I figure it, you could get the 28-135 kit O/S for around the same as "body only" here. Add the strengthening factor of the "Pacific Peso" (thanks Gary!), and you're still pretty much ahead. Now the hard part is finding one...!

[surenj]

Photopotamus,

I checked on XE.com

US$1700 = AU$1962 + ($100 for freight? ) BTW 28-135 will not be a match for the 7D. Old lens, too long etc. I suppose you could offload it in aussie.

I wonder whether Mack warranty will cover if I get a friend to bring this camera from US.

I imagine when poon gets it, it will be AU$1300.... I am hoping my camera will not break before I can get my hands on one... It's 4 years of abuse and still going. Hardly Normal warranty has also run out!

[muzz]

Now the hard part is finding one...!

Apparently PRA Imaging have ordered 100 of them...

[gstark]

Now the hard part is finding one...!

Apparently PRA Imaging have ordered 100 of them...

It's one thing to order these items. it's quite another thing to have them delivered.

[DaveB]

Now the hard part is finding one...!

Apparently PRA Imaging have ordered 100 of them...

It's one thing to order these items. it's quite another thing to have them delivered.

Indeed. With lots of orders from various retailers, when Canon receives a shipment they'll distribute them across the pool of retailers. Presumably a high-volume seller who has an order for 50 units will receive more than a store with a smaller order, but at the same time they do seem to try to supply _something_ to everyone.
When the 5DmkII was coming, my friend who's a Canon reseller (in country Victoria) had an order in for 2: one of which was mine. The camera came in on about the 2nd or 3rd batch of cameras, in time for my trip. I also had an order in at Michaels (I think I was at least 25 down their list) and they contacted me a couple of days after I got my camera (at a cheaper price than they could offer anyway).

Presumably if PRA's ordered 100 units they're not expecting them to all be shipped at once. But they want to get people's pre-orders (e.g. by offering the hope that they'll get "enough" cameras).

The last I heard was that Canon had announced an RRP, but not yet decided on reseller buy prices (I think for some of their resellers it's not just a %age discount from the RRP). If that's true, when that info gets decided those sellers will know how far under RRP they can safely discount to purchasers, and we may see even better prices.

[Photopotamus]

Now the hard part is finding one...!

Apparently PRA Imaging have ordered 100 of them...

It's one thing to order these items. it's quite another thing to have them delivered.

Indeed. With lots of orders from various retailers, when Canon receives a shipment they'll distribute them across the pool of retailers. Presumably a high-volume seller who has an order for 50 units will receive more than a store with a smaller order, but at the same time they do seem to try to supply _something_ to everyone.
When the 5DmkII was coming, my friend who's a Canon reseller (in country Victoria) had an order in for 2: one of which was mine. The camera came in on about the 2nd or 3rd batch of cameras, in time for my trip. I also had an order in at Michaels (I think I was at least 25 down their list) and they contacted me a couple of days after I got my camera (at a cheaper price than they could offer anyway).

Presumably if PRA's ordered 100 units they're not expecting them to all be shipped at once. But they want to get people's pre-orders (e.g. by offering the hope that they'll get "enough" cameras).

The last I heard was that Canon had announced an RRP, but not yet decided on reseller buy prices (I think for some of their resellers it's not just a %age discount from the RRP). If that's true, when that info gets decided those sellers will know how far under RRP they can safely discount to purchasers, and we may see even better prices.

This does seem to be the case. Interestingly enough, in recent days, Amazon (US) has removed the ability to pre-order the 7D. I suspect that they too have been flooded, and are also facing pressure from their associate retailers.

[surenj]

How does it translate to us poor blokes in Aussie without any special connections. When do you think this camera will be available for purchase from our usual gray suppliers?

[DaveB]

How does it translate to us poor blokes in Aussie without any special connections. When do you think this camera will be available for purchase from our usual gray suppliers?

No special connections required: you'll see from my 5DmkII story that orders through big stores such as Michaels came through at about the same time.
Many suppliers are taking deposits (remember these are refundable by default) and putting people on lists to get cameras. You could go down this path, even before deciding if you'll be happy with the price they'll offer.
Hopefully the cameras will start arriving in early October, which isn't that far away!
Beyond that my crystal ball is cloudy, but with the amount of excitement this camera is producing, don't expect there to be much discounting for quite a while.

[DaveB]

 BTW, the Adobe Camera Raw 5.5 and Lightroom 2.5 updates that came out yesterday contain unofficial support for the 7D's RAW files. Things will presumably be tweaked (including new colour profiles, and NR/sharpening optimisations) by the next update when the 7D support becomes official.
But at least when the 7D lands in people's hands they'll be free to use RAW immediately...

[DebT]

Ted's in Adelaide have this advertised in todays paper preorder $2999
Deb T

[surenj]

$2999 seems a bit of rip off. 5D2 is only $3300 odd gray.

Hmm... the wait will be long for prices to come down though. I will still explore the option of getting it sent from the US.

[aim54x]

That price is a rip...i think the Canon Aust SRP is 2699 or 2799 but the word is the availability will be tight for awhile...Canon wants it this way to keep the demand up so they can sell more units (they did this with the 5D ii)

[surenj]

They will only sell lots of units if the Image quality holds up though. Unless they have paid some top photogs to do fake reviews to mislead everybody......

[DaveB]

I think Michaels have it listed for the RRP ($2700-ish).
Best generally-available prices seem to be around the mid-$2300s, although there are some Australian resellers willing to be beaten down below that mark slightly. Canon Aust has told sellers what their buy price is (although there's no clear info on first delivery dates yet). For the slight savings between the sub-$2400 prices you also have to factor in delivery timeframes/etc.

$3000 does certainly seem a premium price!