New month - new Nikon?

[mickey]

Don't be...D3 is still a very nice camera for the price, and I don't think the D700 will take too many sales away, think like the 5D vs 1D range, there's still enough there to merit the price increase.

In saying that though the D700 is very tempting, I just don't know what to do...but do I really need 3 DSLRs given my limited use

[chrisk]

first hands on report on the SB-900 from some who knows his flashes

Joe McNally

yeah, i read that b4. looks pretty sweet. 200mm zoom, the cool little gel trick, auto FX/ DX compatability looks very clever. the output power, or i suppose almost FV metering ??, sounds very interesting indeed.

its listed at $499 Vs $315 for the sb800. so its a pretty significant investment.

[cyanide]

Given that I'm on the verge of ordering a D300, I'm interested to see how much (if any) downward pressure on the D300 price the D700 will exert.

[gstark]

Given that I'm on the verge of ordering a D300, I'm interested to see how much (if any) downward pressure on the D300 price the D700 will exert.

None.

They're two very different cameras that share the same body.

The D300's price has already dropped significantly due to its ready availability. Don't expect the D700 to drop by too much for maybe three more months.

[chrisk]

on another note...hasnt the 17-35/ 2.8 now taken on new relevance for dslr ?

[Antsl]

Hi all,
I had the chance to play with the D700 today and I have to say that it is a very appealing camera.... I would happily have two of these rather than a D3 (assuming I did not already have a D3!). Perhaps the biggest observations is how solid it is.... this is not a D3 sensor in a D300 body... it is a totally new body design that is a little bit larger than the D300. It is also noticeably heavier. On the whole though it is everything that they say it is... it is a D3 sensor and image processor in a slightly smaller package. I also had the chance to shot some images with it Nothing I can post sorry) and the image quality looks just as good as the D3... they have also improved the white balance in the camera. As mentioned earlier, the price is going to be $3999 RRP but there is a good chance this will drop once the first orders start to settle down.
Also had a play with the SB900.... it looks great and with a RRP of $749 it is 50 beneath Nikon Australia's list price for the SB800. I did not get to put it onto a camera but it looks like a very useful unit for anyone who does regular flash work.
I am still unhappy that Nikon have no come out with some faster primes .... maybe next month.
cheers, ants

[RDW]

http://www.digitalsecrets.net/secrets/NikD700.html

Peter iNova's review of D700 for those who are interested. His new D300 eBook will be available soon as well.

[Underload]

ECS have their pricing listed....

D700: $3575

SB900: $645

[who]

Interesting item -- someone at Nikon (Aus) likes to C&P without reading

The D700 features the D-SLR FX-format

Picture Angle (in 35mm [135] format equivalent) Approx. 1.5 x lens focal length (Nikon DX format)

Seen at - http://www.nikon.com.au/productitem.php ... 63bae4a413 after expanding the first 2 sections.....

[gooseberry]

In keeping with the theme of the thread title (New month - new Nikon), now that the D700 is announced... late next month (August) I think the 24MP Nikon will be announced.... and I don't think it will be called a D3X. Wonder if Nikon will surprise us with the price

(BTW 500th post!)

[gstark]

Picture Angle (in 35mm [135] format equivalent) Approx. 1.5 x lens focal length (Nikon DX format)

Actually, that's not wrong, as the D700, like the D3, has a DX mode. So while the camera is in DX mode, this would be an accurate representation.

It's simply missing the bit that talks about picture angle in FX format, which is not something that was ever mentioned (to my recollection) when we were shooting film.

[chrisk]

so there seems to be some people here "close" to nikon. whats the reasoning do you think behind the lack of prime updates ? i just dont get it.

[gstark]

so there seems to be some people here "close" to nikon.

There are? That's news to me.

We have members here who use Nikon gear in a professional capacity, and as such, they also get invited to events that Nikon stage from time to time. There have been at least two such events this week to which some of them have been invited, and that's how we are able to have these hands-on impressions.

whats the reasoning do you think behind the lack of prime updates ? i just dont get it.

Nikon JP's failure to understand the needs of their customer base would be how I might choose to describe it. But if you're expecting someone in Nikon Oz to give you an answer ... I would, with respect, suggest that they're clueless in this regard. Oz is a very small - feel free to interpret that as insignificant - segment of Nikon's global market, and we do not fare very highly in terms of input into their management structure.

[chrisk]

fair enuf, i guess i'm more asking about what peoples view is on the "why". ie: am i missing something ?? are primes becoming less relevant so nikon dont see a need to update them ? it just seems like such a big oversight there must be a reason for it. if nikon are REALLY serious about market share and getting people to switch, they need some glass updates to encourage that, not just great bodies. and i also dont see the point of the PC-E updates all coming out at once...i would have thought this was quite a small market compared to the other primes. so i guess i'm confused about what the strategy is behind that.

i think you answered it though...they dont listen. (whats a Nikon JP ??)

[radar]

Actually, I think Nikon does know what they are doing. I would guess that the majority of their sales these days are zoom lenses. When they released the D3/D300, they also released the 14-24 and 24-70 and the updated long primes. By all accounts, these lenses are as good if not better then a lot of primes. Granted, they are not as fast as f1.4 or f1.8, but still very good. Most of their primes are still very good, just not AF-S. The market for primes is diminishing as the zooms are getting better and better. Your average D-SLR owner will not go and get a prime lens. Photo journalists will like have the 14-24 and their 24-70 in their bag.

As for the PC-E lenses, they really didn't really have anything there to compete with the Canon equivalent and for architecture pro photographers, that was a big incentive to go use Canon. Their old PC-E were even more dated then their a lot of their primes.

Of course, these are just my own opinions and are likely to be way off course

Photokina is coming up in a few months so lets see what Nikon has in store for us then

Also heard that the D700 can do 14-bit raw at full speed, unlike the D300. That is a big plus for the D700. Is anybody able to confirm this?

Cheers,

André

[Nnnnsic]

so there seems to be some people here "close" to nikon.

We have members here who use Nikon gear in a professional capacity, and as such, they also get invited to events that Nikon stage from time to time. There have been at least two such events this week to which some of them have been invited, and that's how we are able to have these hands-on impressions.

I go to lots of different events. You know... cause I'm a technology journalist. No, really.

If Canon were to actually invite me to one, I'd go. As I would for most other companies.

[sirhc55]

Shame about the Linksys NAS200 Network Storage being a heap of shite

[Antsl]

so there seems to be some people here "close" to nikon. whats the reasoning do you think behind the lack of prime updates ? i just dont get it.

I write for a couple of photo mags and so I was at the Melbourne launch in place of the editor who couldn't make it. As for the situation on primes... yes, I to was dissapointed that there were no new fast primes announced... they could well do with replacing the 50mm and the 85mm f1.4s with AFS and nano crystal optics but at the same time I am keen to see them release a 24mm or 28mm f2 lens (fast yet compact) or a wide-angle 1.4 lens. As already mentioned... Photokina is coming up and so there is a chance we will see more lenses coming through then... I made veiled threats to one of Nikon's senior staff on this subject at the launch and I got a wry smile back.... heres hoping. Nikon's consideration for the moment is no doubt "why do we need to give you and extra stop or two of glass when we have just given you an extra three stops of ISO....
The case the the PC-E lenses is actually reasonably strong... aside from catching up with Canon who have had all these lenses for 20 years, these lenses are also very useful for a range of photography work other than architecture. In the right hands a PC lens will also give you functions you will never get out of an ordinary lens and that despite what you might think, you cannot easily reproduce in the computer. Believe it or not there are a many professional portrait photographers out there who would prefer to use an 85mm or a 90mm Tilt/Shift lens than an 85mm 1.4. For more information on this subject have a look at the story I have coming up in next month's Australian Photography magazine.

[hamster]

speaking of new nikon, is it just me or has anyone noticed that the sb-900 supposedly has a lower guide number than the 800?

[wider]

Nikon's consideration for the moment is no doubt "why do we need to give you and extra stop or two of glass when we have just given you an extra three stops of ISO....

this point i was going to raise as well Antsl - Nikon are competing, just on a different front it seems at the moment. unfortunately for people like me who need new glass to go with our noisier bodies, we must wait...

speaking of new nikon, is it just me or has anyone noticed that the sb-900 supposedly has a lower guide number than the 800?

i was wondering what the guide number of the new flash was. maybe Nikon feel that with their new low-noise sensors the users wont require high guide numbers anymore??

[chrisk]

Nikon's consideration for the moment is no doubt "why do we need to give you and extra stop or two of glass when we have just given you an extra three stops of ISO.

they dont need to improve the speed of the lens' in "aperture" terms. i'm perfectly happy with 50/1.4 and 85/1.4. the 35 maybe could be a 1.4 aswell....but thats not the problem. the problem is they are slow focussing and noisy. iso isnt going to make any difference in the performance of these lens' in that regard.

[Antsl]

Nikon's consideration for the moment is no doubt "why do we need to give you and extra stop or two of glass when we have just given you an extra three stops of ISO.

they dont need to improve the speed of the lens' in "aperture" terms. i'm perfectly happy with 50/1.4 and 85/1.4. the 35 maybe could be a 1.4 aswell....but thats not the problem. the problem is they are slow focussing and noisy. iso isnt going to make any difference in the performance of these lens' in that regard.

Actually Rooz, Nikon do need to improve the maximum aperture speed and optical performance of a few of their lenses for the sake of keeping their more specialist pro photographers happy. A generation ago Nikon had a reasonably popular range of pro grade MF primes in their line up ... lenses like the 24/2, 28/2 and the 35/1.4 but in the move to auto focus these lenses were abandoned by Nikon. Professional editorial photographers are still demanding these lenses simply because they are small, lightweight, discreet, more reliable (no complex zoom mechanisms) and usually they have a better optical performance than zoom lenses. I for one would rather walk into a job with a couple of small lenses and a small body rather than a bloody big zoom like the 14-24/2.8 or the 24-70/2.8 on a D3 simply because it suits my way of working and it helps me achieve the images I want. I am not after any f1.0 or f1.2 lenses from Nikon ... usually these are way too heavy and overpriced for real world photography... an extra stop on a 2.8 prime lens would not go astray though... nikon have had the same 20/2.8, 24/2.8, 28/2.8 and 35/3 lens designs floating about for the past two decades and we really do need to see an update and a performance improvement on them soon.

If these improved lenses do happen to be AF-S types then that is fine but I might mention that the noise or focussing speed of a lens is a rather low priority to me and I don't think it has ever really hindered my image making that much (although admittedly I am a people photographer and not a wildlife photographer). What does stop me getting an image is when I walk into an environment with large equipment and lenses that shouts out "here's the photographer".

[ATJ]

speaking of new nikon, is it just me or has anyone noticed that the sb-900 supposedly has a lower guide number than the 800?

It is not possible to know for sure as the specifications for the SB-900 don't state at what zoom setting you get a guide number of 34 (ISO 100, m).

Some other things suggest it might be less powerful.
Flash shooting distance range (varies depending on the ISO sensitivity, zoom-head position, and lens aperture in use)
* SB-800: 0.6m to 20m (2 to 66 ft.)
* SB-900: 0.6 m to 20 m (2 to 66 ft)
Multi-step auto zoom covers wide zoom range
* SB-800: 24-105mm
* SB-900: 17-200mm

I would have thought that having it cover an area of a 200mm lens would mean it would be brighter than a 105mm range (same light spread over a smaller area with the 200mm zoom position) and yet the flash shooting distance range doesn't increase.

Some other things that make the SB-900 not so good...

Supplied accessories:
* SB-800: Quick Recycling Battery Pack SD-800, Speedlight Stand AS-19, Colored Gel Filter Set SJ-800, Nikon Diffusion Dome SW-10H, External power source terminal cap, Soft Case SS-800
* SB-900: Speedlight Stand AS-21, Nikon Diffusion Dome SW-13H, Color Filter Set SJ-900, Color Filter Holder SZ-2, Soft Case SS-900

Optional accessories:
* SB-800:
* SB-900: Color Filter Set SJ-3, Water Guard WG-AS1/WG-AS2/WG-AS3, High-Performance Battery Pack SD-9, Wireless Slave Flash Controller SU-4, TTL Remote Cord SC-28/SC-29

[wider]

^ although the sb900 doesnt include a quick recharge battery pack, i read somewhere that the circuitry or something inside was redesigned to recharge quicker without the need for the 5th battery

[ATJ]

^ although the sb900 doesnt include a quick recharge battery pack, i read somewhere that the circuitry or something inside was redesigned to recharge quicker without the need for the 5th battery

almost...

http://www.nikon.com/about/news/2008/0701_sb900_02.htm

Improved booster circuit for high-speed recycle time: Recycle time using four AA-size batteries is almost equal to the SB-800 with five AA-size batteries

Note that if it is less powerful than the SB-800, that could also explain the faster recycle time.

[aim54x]

Optional accessories:
* SB-800:
* SB-900: Color Filter Set SJ-3, Water Guard WG-AS1/WG-AS2/WG-AS3, High-Performance Battery Pack SD-9, Wireless Slave Flash Controller SU-4, TTL Remote Cord SC-28/SC-29

This confused me a lot. Does this mean it does not have a built in SU-4?

[tasadam]

I was sent this link by a friend, seems relevant and not already mentioned.
http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-998075 ... ag=nl.e725

US$1200 more than a D300 - a steep increase. We shall see how things settle in.

[feldy]

Presumably the price will be dropping steeply in the next few months, to a point where it may not be that much more expensive than the D300.

Have to question Nikon's strategic thinking here - am sure it's a great unit, but there'd have to be a lot of pissed off D3 owners right now and presumably [soon] there'll be a lot more pissed off D300 owners [have to admit I'd be one of them] - who would have happily waited six months for a full-frame alternative??

F

[tasadam]

Presumably the price will be dropping steeply in the next few months, to a point where it may not be that much more expensive than the D300.

Have to question Nikon's strategic thinking here - am sure it's a great unit, but there'd have to be a lot of pissed off D3 owners right now and presumably [soon] there'll be a lot more pissed off D300 owners [have to admit I'd be one of them] - who would have happily waited six months for a full-frame alternative??

F

Like when we bought the D70 just before the D200 came out, or when we bought the D200 just before the D300 came out.

Nothing to be p*'d off about, just part of the cycle. You bought it as the market was then. Tomorrow there will be a new car model and the one you bought today will be in the same category as your camera gear - not the latest and greatest any more. If that's what you want, it will get very expensive for you. Thing is, that IS what some people want - probably explains why these products are more expensive when first released - they know that there are people out there that have the attitude of "must have", as well as professionals out there that are willing to pay to "have the edge" - keeping up, so to speak.

I'm really looking forward to the future.
The way memory chips keep getting bigger capacity, smaller size; the way processing power is ever-increasing.
When we will have 20 megapixels streaming 30 frames a second (yes, video!) so you really do get to capture that very moment you wanted. All at a massive data storage requirement - in todays standards. But here I sit with over 2 terabytes in this PC, and 12 or so years ago my PC would have had about 40Mb. And then it would have cost a whole lot more than now too. I remember paying $500 for a 1Gb drive.

Technology advances, advances get built into new products, and suddenly your old product is "obsolete". If you really believe it's obsolete, you have a severe case of a terribly expensive disease. It's called Upgraditis.

Or you can be happy with your purchase and use it for what it can do.

[seeto.centric]

ahh so tempted to get a D700... so does ECS have any in stock to try?

-j

[DanINqld]

Anyone know the aus shipping date?

[feldy]

Have to agree to disagree on that one tasadam; interesting to see if Nikon has some sort of long-term naming 'stream' for the 700 series, or if its just a number they picked at random?

-F

[aim54x]

Have to agree to disagree on that one tasadam; interesting to see if Nikon has some sort of long-term naming 'stream' for the 700 series, or if its just a number they picked at random?

-F

That I want to see as well, dont you think they are running out of names in the bottom end? D40, D50, D60, D70, D80, D90?, D100, D200, D300.... D700 I thought they may have started the small sized FX cameras at D1000, but that proved to be incorrect.

[gstark]

interesting to see if Nikon has some sort of long-term naming 'stream' for the 700 series,

I suspect they do.

Their first prosumer DSLR? The D70.

Their first prosumer FX DSLR? The D700.

I do not believe that the naming of these two first-in-class models is coincidence.

[ATJ]

Have to question Nikon's strategic thinking here - am sure it's a great unit, but there'd have to be a lot of pissed off D3 owners right now and presumably [soon] there'll be a lot more pissed off D300 owners [have to admit I'd be one of them] - who would have happily waited six months for a full-frame alternative??

I'm a D300 owner and I'm not pissed off with Nikon's thinking here at all. If the D300 and D700 had been released at the same time, I still would have bought the D300. With the timing of the releases, I was able to buy my D300 in December. I would have been pissed off if Nikon had made me wait until now (or whenever the D700 will be released).

[Reschsmooth]

Bugger the D700, I want this. Gary, can Poon get pricing on this?

[gstark]

Patrick,

I'm well aware of this gem, but not sure that you do, in fact, want it.

First of all, the sensor is made by Kodak.

Second, I believe that there's a low-res back, for which the RRP is expected to be around PP40K.

Third, the sensor is made by Kodak.

Fourth, the hi-res back ... I'm expecting around PP70K. Note that prices I'm quoting are just for the back. Be sure to add the cost of body and soul.

And did I mention that the sensor is made by those wonderful people at Kodak?

[Reschsmooth]

Patrick,

I'm well aware of this gem, but not sure that you do, in fact, want it.

First of all, the sensor is made by Kodak.

Second, I believe that there's a low-res back, for which the RRP is expected to be around PP40K.

Third, the sensor is made by Kodak.

Fourth, the hi-res back ... I'm expecting around PP70K. Note that prices I'm quoting are just for the back. Be sure to add the cost of body and soul.

And did I mention that the sensor is made by those wonderful people at Kodak?

Gary, I am unaware of the quality of Kodak sensors, and would be surprised if Hasselblad decided to opt for low quality sensors. It would be like Mercedes using Ford engines, or BMW using Mercedes engines.

[ATJ]

It would be like Mercedes using Ford engines, or BMW using Mercedes engines.

How about Jaguar and Aston Martin using Ford engines.

[gstark]

Gary, I am unaware of the quality of Kodak sensors, and would be surprised if Hasselblad decided to opt for low quality sensors. It would be like Mercedes using Ford engines, or BMW using Mercedes engines.

More like Mercedes using Dodge(y) engines, actually.

Kodak's trips into the realms of DSLRdom have not been events marked by happy outcomes.

[gooseberry]

D700 price - Just heard that here in Sg, the RRP for the D700 is S$4399 - which works out to be about A$3370, so street price should be a bit lower than this. Good pricing.

Any idea on Poon's pricing yet Gary ?

[gstark]

Any idea on Poon's pricing yet Gary ?

Won't happen till he gets stock.

[Greg B]

interesting to see if Nikon has some sort of long-term naming 'stream' for the 700 series,

I suspect they do.

Their first prosumer DSLR? The D70.

Their first prosumer FX DSLR? The D700.

I do not believe that the naming of these two first-in-class models is coincidence.

This very thought occured to me too Gary.

The naming arrangements are interesting and essentially irrelevant (to the actual camera) at the same time.

Will we see

D700s
D700x
D750
D770

D800 D900

D7000

[gstark]

interesting to see if Nikon has some sort of long-term naming 'stream' for the 700 series,

I suspect they do.

Their first prosumer DSLR? The D70.

Their first prosumer FX DSLR? The D700.

I do not believe that the naming of these two first-in-class models is coincidence.

This very thought occured to me too Gary.

The naming arrangements are interesting and essentially irrelevant (to the actual camera) at the same time.

Will we see

D700s
D700x
D750
D770

D800 D900

D7000

I'm waiting for the D666. I hear that will be one hell of a camera.

[feldy]

Actually, there's a preview of the D144.5 up on DP Review as we speak!

-F

[gooseberry]

Official price list for D700 in Hong Kong

http://images.fotop.net/albums/freddyli ... elist1.jpg

D700 - 22800 HKD - works out to just under A$3K.

[gstark]

Official price list for D700 in Hong Kong

http://images.fotop.net/albums/freddyli ... elist1.jpg

D700 - 22800 HKD - works out to just under A$3K.

Actually, using rates as quoted by banks (using the rate that I have to use for Poon), rather than a wholesale rate that most sites seem to quote, the D700 price, based upon that HK$ value, would be closer to PP3200 plus shipping.

That said, the URL that you're getting this from looks to be something less than an official Nikon site. How did you test the veracity of this site?

I think I'll wait till I hear that Poon has stock, and he tells me what the price actually is, rather than speculate endlessly on this matter.

[gooseberry]

Official price list for D700 in Hong Kong

http://images.fotop.net/albums/freddyli ... elist1.jpg

D700 - 22800 HKD - works out to just under A$3K.

Actually, using rates as quoted by banks (using the rate that I have to use for Poon), rather than a wholesale rate that most sites seem to quote, the D700 price, based upon that HK$ value, would be closer to PP3200 plus shipping.

That said, the URL that you're getting this from looks to be something less than an official Nikon site. How did you test the veracity of this site?

I think I'll wait till I hear that Poon has stock, and he tells me what the price actually is, rather than speculate endlessly on this matter.

Not speculating, just posting info on price for members here.

Veracity of the site ? It was taken by a contact in HK who attended the launch in HK.

Can also get more info/photos from the launch in HK from here http://www.dcfever.com/news/readnews.php?id=2258 - price is also stated there as well.

[Old Bob]

Ted's has an ad in Wednesday's Telegraph, page 2 of the Connect insert, "arrives 25th July", D700 body only - $3699.95

Bob

[methd]

European Camera sales have them at $3.5k. Seems like a pretty good price for Aussie stock and if this is so, I wouldn't pay more than $3k AUD landed ex HK as a post above indicated.