DSLRUsers.com

First post, please be gentle.

I am after some pro's advice - although I think I know the answer.

I'm currently using a happy snappy, Nikon Coolpix 4200. It was a work freebie, and its been pretty good. Results can be pretty hit and miss though.

From out of no where it can take some absolute crackers, but to get them is usually the result of wading though a lot of yuck.
A typical shot will be


But then, take enough and you can get the pic below ... an example of what I (being new to the whole DSLR world) class as a pretty good shot for a freebie camera.


My only reason for upgrading is to get better shots of my son, and if another child comes along in the future, that aswell.
My wife and I always look terrible in photos taken by it. We keep likening it to the camera picking up all our horid detail. My sisters Sony with the Carl Zeiss lens seems to be much nicer. Almost softer in the pictures it pumps out.

Anyway ... this is getting right off track, but just giving a bit of background ... I am mainly wanting to take shots of people, who will probably be moving, so needs quick, good auto-focus, good flash and im assuming a nice lens. I will also be taking shots of cars - but not with a view of selling them ... yet


I have an offer presented before me.
Apologies to the seller if they are on this website. I thought i'd just cross check, as its my first foray into this world.

nikon d70 body with kit lens, sb800 flash, nikon 70-200 2.8 VR Lens -- for $3,000.

Now, the wife has already said no ... and that was when I said it was going to cost $2,000.

But, i've never been one to listen to advice/requests/demands.
Now the $3,000 isnt a casual amount to me. It is important. But i'd love to be able to have some good tools at my disposal, that will enable me to take some nice memories.

I guess what im wanting to know/be advised on is:

1. Is this absolute overkill? Jumping into the middle area of the DSLR swimming pool.

2. Does the offer present itself to be a bargain of sorts ? (I was also refered to dirtcheapcameras to review comparitive pricing, but that is for new equipment - how does camera equipment hold its value so well?)

3. Is that lens suitable for indoor use ? I am assuming that it will be necessary, as the kit lens portrait photos i have found online dont appear to be THAT great (i.e. justifying the price)

The sensible person in me says that this is probably too good a camera for someone without experience ... but then again ... will the camera be able to substitute for my lack of talent?

Im happy for your thoughts, thanks for listening to me on my first, rambling post ... and yes, im ready to be flamed as im told I should have searched the site harder

Cheers,
seedy

Seedy!

Welcome to the forum!!

I am sure you will get many responses, but my 2 cents worth is:

If all you are after is a camera to take family & happy snaps then for less than a third of the price above a new high end "point & shoot" will do the job. (my bias is for the canons because of colour reproduction)

If you want to go that bit extra and you have a yen to create and edit the pics you take then the gear listed will certainly be a great start.

If you want to jump in and pursue a serious hobby then you could start with a lot less!

The 70 - 200 Vr is regarded as a serious piece of kit, and has / should hold its value for some time.

I would ask lotsa questions before committing yourself like how many frames taken, (can be checked) how much work has the gear done (and what type/where) and definately have the gear checked and assessed by someone who has an idea of what they are looking at.

Be warned though once the bug has bitten your wallet will be lighter and your CC will be very warm!

Its such a personal choice and committment entering into this world that its nigh on impossible to give direct advice. If you can afford it and are prepared to put the practice / time in you will not be disappointed, particularly with a young family growing up with all those "Nikon Moments" to capture & keep!

Alternatively, a budget solution for you could be to look in the trading post / ebay etc, for a good G series canon, say G5 or G6 with everything still original in the box, but I hope you go the DSLR way!!!

Good luck!!!

Andyt

Greetings Seedy

that is some kind of jump into the dslr world.

I am sure you will get far more advice from seasoned photographers than me but I've just got home from the 'big' fight (boring) so thought I'd drop in my 2 cents worth.

I have just this fortnight acquired the VR to go with my D70s (11 months ago), SB 800 (6 months ago) and other bits n pieces. 70 - 200VR is a great lens by all accounts and performs fantastically across a huge range of scenarios - indoor outdoor moon and mars.

will the camera be able to substitute for my lack of talent?

never never never..I still get more consistent results from my Sony compact but it is not half the fun of experimenting with a DSLR and trying to think things thru myself.

I think my gear far exceeds my ability as a photgrapher but I love the 'newness' of it all and learning in leaps and bounds.

Every now and then I get a shot that wouldnt be possible on a compact and this gives me a sense of achievement way beyond the dollars I have spent - DSLRs are challenging for us newbies but thats what is so appealing!

My basic advice is if you can afford it now, this sounds like a very fair deal - as long as all gear is verified in excellent working condition.

as hi tec bits of gear there are of course potential major problems (and repair costs) so get someone 'in the know' to check it for you.

good news is that it is all top line Nikon gear so if in good condition it 1. works fantastically and 2. - holds its value pretty well.

I am hoping to hold on and get good use out of mine for many years to come (and trust me it will take me that long to work out how to use most of the various menus and options available!!)

I would be very happy to get that kit for $3k today...then again I thought Green would win the fight!!

cheers

Rookie2

Hi seedy,
welcome to the bright side (as far as forums go)!

seedyrom wrote:I am after some pro's advice - although I think I know the answer.

There are quite a few pros around here, though I'm not one of them. I'll post my comments nevertheless...

seedyrom wrote:From out of no where it can take some absolute crackers, but to get them is usually the result of wading though a lot of yuck.

To be honest, I like the first shot better. Sure, showing a bit more of your son's face would have made the picture, but apart from that I think it tells a nice story and is composed well. It does have a few technical flaws, but I reckon it isn't a bad shot.

The second one, in contrast, looks like the boy has been hit with a stun gun, and the composition is all wrong. It is almost sharp and well lit, but doesn't work for me at all.

seedyrom wrote:My only reason for upgrading is to get better shots of my son, and if another child comes along in the future, that aswell.

No amount of gear is going to buy you a quick ticket to good pictures. I know, I've tried

seedyrom wrote:My wife and I always look terrible in photos taken by it. We keep likening it to the camera picking up all our horid detail. My sisters Sony with the Carl Zeiss lens seems to be much nicer. Almost softer in the pictures it pumps out.

What is your camera supposed to do about it? I has no say in the choice of lighting, subject, composition etc. If your sister's camera takes so much better pictures it is probably not due to the Zeiss lens but due to the proverbial 6 inches behind the viewfinder. For a demonstration, sit your wife next to a window hit by the morning sun, rest your camera against a door frame or something sturdy, turn off the flash - instant magic.

seedyrom wrote:nikon d70 body with kit lens, sb800 flash, nikon 70-200 2.8 VR Lens -- for $3,000.

That is certainly a tempting offer, assuming the gear is on good nick.

seedyrom wrote:Now, the wife has already said no ... and that was when I said it was going to cost $2,000.

Your cunning is impressive, you have the talent to become a devout Nikon addict

seedyrom wrote:1. Is this absolute overkill? Jumping into the middle area of the DSLR swimming pool.

I'd say so. In your place I wouldn't go any further than just a D70 with kit lens. The flash can follow later, and the 70-200 is a seriously expensive piece of gear that requires good technique and photographic understanding to be worthwhile. And since you're into people shots (as you said) it may not turn out to be your lens of choice anyway.

seedyrom wrote:2. Does the offer present itself to be a bargain of sorts ? (I was also refered to dirtcheapcameras to review comparitive pricing, but that is for new equipment - how does camera equipment hold its value so well?)

Not having seen the lot, but asuming it is in top condition, this is a good offer and you're not going to lose a lot of value in the forseeable future.

seedyrom wrote:3. Is that lens suitable for indoor use ? I am assuming that it will be necessary, as the kit lens portrait photos i have found online dont appear to be THAT great (i.e. justifying the price)

If indoor use means poor light, then yes, it is better suited than the kit lens by virtue of its large maximum aperture and VR. If indoor means tight spaces, then no, it might turn out too long for a lot of purposes.

seedyrom wrote:The sensible person in me says that this is probably too good a camera for someone without experience ... but then again ... will the camera be able to substitute for my lack of talent?

On the other hand, "too bad" a camera might keep you from ever getting more experience, or fanning the desire to do so. I'd say the D70 is not overkill for anyone with a genuine interest in photography. If it turns out not to be our thing you can always sell it and the financial loss is moderate. The 70-200 on the other hand... I'd hold off on that one until I'm really sure.

seedyrom wrote:Im happy for your thoughts, thanks for listening to me on my first, rambling post ... and yes, im ready to be flamed as im told I should have searched the site harder

I reckon the most important thing for you to do right now is look at lots of photographs by other people, and the critique given to them. You've found just the place for that. The critiques handed out here are a bit tame at times (as per the motto, if you can't say something nice say nothing at all) but will get you a feel for what people find attractive or off-putting in an image.

Cheers
Steffen.

Welcome seedyrom!

Echoing from all above:

1/ It's a good bargain but then depending on the condition of the gears.

2/ You have to make sure you need them for what you're after.

3/ Read your briefing, with my point of view, it's overkilled of what you just want to achieve, but well good, if you want to expand or extend your reach in photography field, and it will never ever stop there.

4/ Once again, be warned: the lust is quite "harmful" and one of the disease without any cure or treatment, we have few Proffessors on board, they're running many researches, try to find the solutions same as medications for this disease but none available atm.

It's expensive and it may cost your........... if you're out of control

5/ Take it easy! make the wife happy and she will write a big cheque for you later.

6/ Enjoying your stay while you're on board.

That's a great deal, assuming the gear is in reasonable nick.

SImply buying an SLR will NOT immediately make your photos better. Arguably, the photos straight out of a good P&S often look better than the photos straight out of a DSLR because of the processing etc. Plus even though the POTENTIAL quality of a DSLR photo is much higher, you can also produce some LOUSY results - if you just stick it on automatic, you might as well just stick with a P&S.

If you genuinely have an interest in photography, then this is a wonderful list of equipment to learn on, especially the fabulous 70-200VR. Don't underestimate the kit lens either, it is a versatile, sharp lens. If you DON'T really have an interest in photography, rather you just want good photos of your family, then I would be inclined to just buy a good P&S and learn how to use it well. DSLRs reward hard work and perseverance, and you NEED to want to do that.

Welcome to the forum.

If your wife is already saying "no" before you buy your equipment, than you're going to be in big trouble further down the track. Especially if you continue to visit this site and attending the meets.

Hi Sandy,

Welcome. That is a great combo, but probably overkill for what you need. It is a good price if in good condition.A D70 + kit lens is good, with maybe a 50 1.8 (worth $200) for indoor low light work is probably a good starting point.


Can you resize your photo to the maximum size allowable on this site (800 pixels on the longest side)? Because of the size it makes the page hard to read as it wraps around and harder to download for dial up users. Thanks

seedy,

Just get the D70 and kit lens. If you want to go any further, then get some longer faster glass.

If you're looking for a fantastic jpg camera, then another option is a Fuji S2 or S3.

Hi Seedy,

First welcome to the forum. Some of the previous poster have given you some fantastic advice already.

My 2 cents,

Start small and by that I mean the camera body, kit lens and flash. Then maybe look for a good lens like a 50mm with f1.4 or f1.8 which would be fast enough for indoor photography and good focal length for potraits (i am told).

I am a canonian hence dont know much about the 70-200 2.8VR lens.

Once you get used to the DSLR you would have a good understanding of what lens you should go for. Do you find yourself wanting that extra reach or do you find yourself stepping back all the time? Based on your phtography style and answers to the above you would know what lens you would need in the future.

Another point to note is that images straight out of a DSLR are not the same as images out of a Point and shoot. You would need to post process them in either photoshop or paint shop pro or other photo software to bring out the colors. I have spent many a long hour explaining to my wife why images with my expensive camera doesnt look as good as the sony ones.

Ok am going to stop waffling on. One last thing. enjoy the process

Cheers
Mak PS there's a saying "Pretty People make ugly photos" I am living proof

If you decide that you would like a D70, you could always take the deal and then sell the 80-200. Just ckeck ebay to see what they sell for. You might be suprised at how little that D70 actually cost you

Oneputt,
Sorry, it's the 70-200Vr not 80-200.
Good deal though.

Lens lust is the same in the guitar world of GAS (Guitar acquisition syndrome), it will NEVER stop...

Typo Birddog These old fingers. I would still go that way though I think there might be some takers on this forum

Oneputt wrote:Typo Birddog These old fingers. I would still go that way though I think there might be some takers on this forum

Absolutely!

Although I reckon once the OP starts using the 70-200VR, there is no way in hell he will part with it

(seedyrom, if you DO get the package and decide to flog off the 70-200VR, put me on the long list of people who would gladly take it off your hands )

losfp wrote:
(seedyrom, if you DO get the package and decide to flog off the 70-200VR, put me on the long list of people who would gladly take it off your hands )

Hey! I've heard you're banned to visit this site Your fiancee lodged a complaint to the admins already

Oneputt wrote:Typo Birddog These old fingers. I would still go that way though I think there might be some takers on this forum

Need few cold beers to treat it!

birddog114 wrote:Hey! I've heard you're banned to visit this site Your fiancee lodged a complaint to the admins already

Sshhh!!!! Keep it quiet.. What she doesn't know won't hurt her.

Or me

losfp - this 'ol fella already has a 70-200VR and you are right. I am not about to part with it