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Now that Nikon, Sony and Canon all have relatively cheap 10 Mpixel DSLRs (probably with the same sensor), I am faced with the decision of which one to buy. The Canon one has a self-cleaning sensor, but the Nikon one apparently doesn't. How important is this, and should I wait for Nikon to include a self-cleaning sensor, or throw out all my Nikon gear and buy Canon?
Are there other important differences?
Thanks,
Dave Kelly.

OK, the sensor cleaning thing can be an issue, but it can also be overstated.

Sensor cleaning requirements are totally reliant on the amount of time you spend changing lenses, and the environment you do that in. I'd probably change my lens as much as others around here, and have only done a wet clean once in the 2 and a bit years I've had the D70. Other than that I've gotten away with only a few blow jobs

Others here would have had worse experiences, but don't get dragged down the 'this camera automatically cleans your sensor' marketing crap unless you really want to jump ship

Hi Dave welcome!
I've already chatted to you on my views

People can correct me if I am wrong but I would think a ultra-sonic vibrating sensor cleaner is only as good as a blower...
I would think for the really stuck dust you would need a wet clean..

I've done maybe 4 wet cleans in the 2 years of owning my d70... It is a nerve racking thing at first but you get used to it...

And the nice clean labs at work are an ideal place to do it

Oh and get your self down to Teds and pick a few up and play with them...
The importance of ergonomics can not be overlooked!

David,

I see this, too, as a marketing issue. Just like megapixels.

My suspicion is that sensors that supposedly self clean will, from time to time, become attached to dust bunnies that the self-cleaning mechanisms won't be able to remove.

I would look at the important features, rather than the marketing bs, in terms of making a purchase decision.

That means selection of glass, ergonomics, reliability, and quality of build become the factors. In that regard, either the Canon or Nikon should suit your needs and you should visit a local camera store to see how each one feels in your hands.

Given that you say you already have some Nikon glass, this would be a factor too, but the experience of many here - in that same situation - is that they've gone and purchased new glass regardless, and so you should also consider that situation.

David, try them out at the local store. Rest assured none has a huge advantage over the others, no matter what the sales guy says. Buy what feels best for you, subject to your present investment in Nikon glass. If you share what that is, others may tell you if they still use that glass on the modern dslr

Dave - I personally would restrict the choice to either Canon or Nikon. Although Sony are using Minolta they are not renowned for their duty of care.

Either the D80 Nikon or the 400D Canon would be nice.

sirhc55 wrote:Dave - I personally would restrict the choice to either Canon or Nikon. Although Sony are using Minolta they are not renowned for their duty of care.

Either the D80 Nikon or the 400D Canon would be nice.

I'd back that suggestion just because the other two players are better established in the DSLR market, and Sony are the relative new comers, Canon and Nikon have a wealth of RD to build on from all there previous models, Sony doesn't have as solid foundation.

sheepie wrote:Sensor cleaning requirements are totally reliant on the amount of time you spend changing lenses, and the environment you do that in.

Not quite true Leon. I didn't change lenses at all on my camera for almost 6 months after buying it - simply didn't have any other lenses to change to. I still had dust bunnies creeping into my images from about 3 months after the date of purchase.

As everyone else here has said, ultrasonic cleaning sensors have more to do with marketing than practicality. Buy a Giotto air rocket and give your sensor a blast when you see dust bunnies on your images. It's really that simple. I'd also go with the recommendations you've received so far. Nikon and Canon have a much wider range of lenses to choose from, so I'd go with one of those brands. See if you can use one from each brand for a day or so before buying and go with the one you feel more comfortable with. That is, unless you have an existing collection of lenses, in which case I'd go with the brand you've already invested in.

This question comes down to your own liking.

Canon and Nikon both are in the DSLR and SLR business for decades, they all have a large range and variety of new and used lenses on the market.

Not having used Minolta (Sony), I cant say much about its SLR technology.


Whether you may want to go for the Nikon's superb creative flash lighting system, or the affordable ImageStablelized lenses from Canon, its all up to you. Tho Nikon still have plenty of its legendary lenses, but they are not cheap for someone to start off.

If you already own some of Canon, Nikon or Minolta lenses, go with the body which takes those lenses. If you are new into SLR cameras, you wont go wrong with by choosing either of them three.

ABG wrote:Not quite true Leon. I didn't change lenses at all on my camera for almost 6 months after buying it - simply didn't have any other lenses to change to. I still had dust bunnies creeping into my images from about 3 months after the date of purchase.

Well... OK

Like all "fixed" versus "variable" questions, there will be a good mix of both in the collection of dust bunnies. My point is really that it is mostly variable based on the changes you make and the environment you're in. Of course, there will always be some that slip in on their own - just as you always end up with a certain amount of dust build up in your lens itself

(Can you tell I'm in the middle of sorting out budgets for next year? )


DAVID:

I think you're probably getting the message by now that most here think the dust bunny issue is probably fairly low on the list of considerations in getting a new body.
Personally, I'd go for the one that feels best in your hands - no-one elses, just YOUR hands (you're the one taking the photo's, right?). The specs of the major brands are pretty much the same these days, although I do feel that Nikon is better spec'd and built than the Canons at similar price points

As the others have rightly mentioned - the self cleaning sensor is mostly marketing.

In terms of image quality, you can't go wrong with any of the 10MP cameras (or any of the 6MP cameras for that matter) - as I have read someone else say - if you can't get quality 11" x 18" prints from any of the 6MP/10MP DSLRs, it's NOT the camera.

Unless you have very specific and niche requirements, the key in choosing the camera for you is in the ergonomics and handling. Canon and Nikon have quite different ergonomics - some find one more intuitive then the other. I use Nikon and I find their interface more intuitive for me, and the handling of the camera (especially the consumer oriented cameras) much better. But someone else will have a different opinion. So it's important for you to go down to a camera store and have a good play with the various cameras you are considering rather than listening to what the marketing departments have to say or what the salesmen say.

The other thing to do is do a bit of research there are several good, IMHO unbiased reviewers online... in particular dpreview.com, but nothing beats trying them out for a bit.

Check out:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond80/

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos400d/

- Note the Canon review is not complete, but the Nikon review does do extensive comparisons between the Nikon D80, the Canon (and Sony for that matter).

As the others have said given the established nature of Canon or Nikon, its got to be one of those.

My opinion the Canon is a great camera with in particular a superb autofocus; but you can't beat the ergnomics, handling and menu structure of the Nikon. Everything else IMHO is pretty much equal.

Hi David

If you are happy with your Nikon lenses then stick with Nikon (and this is coming from a Canonphile ). But if you are not, then check out Canon!

Cheers
Sheila

the marketing material on the auto-dust material has a second part which says that for those that it can't remove, it has in-built SW that takes a dust-ref photo and subtracts it (I think this is the sony material). Which is pretty much what the D70 and D200 cameras have and if others don't then you can do it in PP using a 'healing' brush

It's funny in my D70 I was getting dust all the time and mostly just had the kit lens. With my D200 I have more lenses as well and am changing a lot more often and over three months - nada dust. In three months I've taken 6000 shots with the D200 vs. 13000 in 15 months with the D70. I do note that the lens mount on the D200 seems more closely machined than the D70.

The other point is that 99% of the time you will only start to see dust at apertures over f8/f11 and up.

I found that the giotto air-blower (actually I have a Canon version, no rocket wings ) works brilliantly for most noticeable dust.

Thanks for all the advice about dust removal and Nikon vs Canon.
Since I go on hikes of up to a week, camera weight is a concern, and I have noticed some DSLRs are very heavy. Dust and rain can be a problem too.
I also have to get by without a tripod for closeups of plants on long trips, and hope that the fast speed and/or image stabilizers of the DSLRs will help compensate for that.
A friend has the Olympus 8Mpixel compact camera and finds focussing difficult on plants when the autofocus won't work. But results are good when autofocus does work.
Dave Kelly