DSLRUsers.com

My new toy arrived yesterday form Poon
All i can say is wow what service ordered it last Monday left Hong Kong on Thursday & here in my hands 200 klm north of Adelaide on the following Monday .The world is truly a small place with the internet & everything else that tech
Many more buttons to learn & many new features over my D50
When i first picked up the D80 ,you can tell the build quality over the D50 for sure
After 12 months with the D50 i was still leanning things about it, now i have to well not start all over again but have alot more to learn abought my new D80
So i wonder what i will be doing on my day off today
ahhhhhhhhhhhh i think i might go take a few shots with my new toy of my new grandson lol
i have only taken about 400 so far with the 50 lol
warren aka aussichef

Congrats Warren, enjoy the learning curve

Great news Warren,
Look forward seeing to some beautiful portraits with it!

Warren - enjoy your new toy.

fozzie

aussichef wrote:My new toy arrived yesterday form Poon
All i can say is wow what service ordered it last Monday left Hong Kong on Thursday & here in my hands 200 klm north of Adelaide on the following Monday .The world is truly a small place with the internet & everything else that tech
Many more buttons to learn & many new features over my D50
When i first picked up the D80 ,you can tell the build quality over the D50 for sure
After 12 months with the D50 i was still leanning things about it, now i have to well not start all over again but have alot more to learn abought my new D80
So i wonder what i will be doing on my day off today
ahhhhhhhhhhhh i think i might go take a few shots with my new toy of my new grandson lol
i have only taken about 400 so far with the 50 lol
warren aka aussichef

congrats Warren enjoy,

With service like this , It makes you wonder why we buy local sometimes.

MATT

its the service the price knowing who yr buying off
in the last cpl of months i have bought
1 Nikon D80 body only
2 Bateries
2 x 2 gig Sd cards
1 Nikon 70-200 f2.8 VR
1 Sigma 18-50 f2.8
Thru this forum ( i call it a club when i speak to outsiders about here )
And just with these items none cheap by any means ( i'm only a poor old chef)
And i would say i have saved well over A$1000.00 & thats not including the postage i have saved
So with service like one week from order to delivery, great prices ,quality products & also helping keep this forum going why wouldnt you shop here first
Some prices are better elsewhere but once you figure in postage & handling well it speaks for itself
Thas it i have done my adverising for this forum hahahahah
warren
aka aussichef

Congrats on the new equipment.

So on this trend, I'd expect you to get a D200s next year followed by a D3X the year after.

Daniel

Congrats Warren, time to play with the new toy and learn a few new things but as i have not seen one of these i am sure it wont be too much hassle and Poons service is good. Although i been waiting for a lens for awhile but out of stock so chasing another one so yeh have fun.
I still love my D70

DanielA wrote:Congrats on the new equipment.

So on this trend, I'd expect you to get a D200s next year followed by a D3X the year after.

Daniel

Well to be honest Daniel if i had ,had an extra few hundred i would have bought the D200 lol
i was very close to getting the D200 ,the wife even said go for it lol
But then i decided to keep the D50 for now as a backup so couldnt afford to keep the d50 & an extra 700 dollars for the D200
AH WELL the D80 will keep me accupied
For now i have to get use to having 2 wheels & many more button & switches lol enough to keep me busy for a while

aussichef wrote: Well to be honest Daniel if i had ,had an extra few hundred i would have bought the D200 lol
i was very close to getting the D200 ,the wife even said go for it lol
But then i decided to keep the D50 for now as a backup so couldn't afford to keep the d50 & an extra 700 dollars for the D200
AH WELL the D80 will keep me occupied
For now i have to get use to having 2 wheels & many more button & switches lol enough to keep me busy for a while

Hi Warren...

Congratulations on your new D80.... I'm sure you will have a lot of fun with it as it's a great camera. I also thought about getting the D200, but decided on the D80 and spend the $$$ savings on some extra glass or some other gear. So far the D80 has done more than I have expected, so I have no regrets making this decision getting it.....

Having both like you, I'm glad to hear that you are keeping the D50 as soooo many that upgrade to the "D whatever", sell this great camera straight away and then regret it. It's so handy to have the D50 there as either a backup or when I go out, I usually fit the opposite focal range lens to what I'm using on the D80 and that allows me to get the shot with out worrying about changing lenses. But I find now that I use both cameras equal amounts of time....

But have a good play with the in camera settings as they seem to make more difference to the final image than the D50 did. Maybe the D50 was just too good to get those out of camera shots, but I found with a little bit of "tweaking" on the D80 and they come out superb....

Again...good luck with your new toy, and hope you had a great Xmas Day and have a Happy New Year...
From a another South Ozzie..... ;o))..

Hi soxOZ
could u tell me what incamera settings u have on yr D80 please
I am still playing around with settings & not happy with what i have yet any starting point that u have would help me a long way
thanks in advance
warren
aka aussichef

aussichef wrote:Hi soxOZ
could u tell me what incamera settings u have on yr D80 please
I am still playing around with settings & not happy with what i have yet any starting point that u have would help me a long way
thanks in advance
warren
aka aussichef

Hi Warren,

These are the setting I tend to use…………

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Image Sharpening +1 (This may vary depending on what I am going to do with final image. Most of the time I leave this on “0” (Normal) and do all the sharpening in PP)

Tone Compensation
..............."0" (Normal) Dull day or low to no contrast
...............-2 Sunny or high contrast

Color Mode
.................IIIa - General including people in photos but not as main subjects.
....................Ia Portrait

Saturation......0 Normal

Hue Adjustment.......0°

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General camera settings

EV settings
...........-0.3 Sunny or high contrast
........... 0.0 Dull day or low to no contrast

Metering
..........Matrix - Dull day or low to no contrast
..........Center Weighted - Sunny or high contrast
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So as you can see by the pattern, if you have a lot of contrast, to stop from blowing out the high lights, you have to adjust your Tone Compensation & EV settings… And I usually do most of the adjustments in PP as it’s easier to control the final out come. You just have to make sure that you have something good start with to be able to work with….
Hope this has help a little, but hey, you may find that you prefer more “POP” from the photos straight out of the camera, and this also is easily done. But just keep playing with the settings until you find the what suits your style of shooting….

Settings for that “WOW” look straight out of the camera with basically no PP after, give these settings a try…

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Adjust to suit your taste, just like cooking…..LOL

Image Sharpening………. +2

Tone Compensation………+1 to +2

Color Mode…IIIa

Saturation… +2

Hue Adjustment….0°

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These photos were taken with all the setting set to "0" (Normal), Mode IIIa (1st photo) & Ia (2nd photo).

Nikon D80, Nikkor 80-200 f/2.8 @ 100mm, 1/400sec, f/2.8, EV0.0, ISO100
Color Mode IIIa....


Nikon D80, Nikkor 50 f/1.8 plus a Kenko 1.4x PRO300 DG TC @1/500 sec, f/5.6, EV 0.0, ISO100
Color Mode Ia....


The D80 is a great camera, but it just takes a little more work to extract the images you want from it. But once you get a handle on it… it’s easy going…..
If you remember, the D200 was the same, but you don't hear anything about it know... Just keep trying, as the D50 may have spoilt you for those great shots straight out of the camera….

C.Ya…..
Wally
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Nikon D50, D80, SB600
Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D AF, 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G ED AF-S DX, 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G AF-S, 28-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF AF, 80-200mm f2.8D-ED AF
Tokina ATX 12-24mm f/4 AF Pro DX, Kenko 1.4x Pro300 DG TC
~=If dogs don’t go to heaven, I want to go where they go=~
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they are great images are they out of camera or PP i love the color
are they jpeg out of camera or raw i shoot raw i learnt early after not having the right wb lol
warren
aka aussichef

aussichef wrote:they are great images are they out of camera or PP i love the color
are they jpeg out of camera or raw i shoot raw i learnt early after not having the right wb lol
warren
aka aussichef

Hi Warren...

The first Photo has just had a small amount of USM in Nikon Capture applied, but the second I had to boost up the colors slightly as I had used Color Mode Ia along with all the camera settings at "0" for this shot, and found that it was a little flat straight out of the camera. But it turned out OK... But I usually prefer to set all in camera settings to "0", and PP after, as I find you can do a lot more with the photo. But if you get it wrong in the camera, then sometimes it's a lot harder to bring it back with PP...

Both the previous phots were shot in JPG... I tend to always use JPG (Fine, large), unless it’s some sort of special occasion that I know that I will want to play with in PP, and this is when I will use RAW, unless I just want to play….;o)) But I find that I can usually get life back into a photo with a little PP even with jpg files. So far I have left WB on auto, as it seems to work really well….

Here are a couple more shots, so you had better get out there and start using your D80, as it can do fabulous photos…. Hope this has convinced you that it will get the job done. I must admit that when I first got my D80, I struggled to get the results I wanted, and was using my D50 for any important shoots, but now, I feel very confident that the D80 will perform and get me the results I’m after….. ;o))


Nikon D80, Nikkor 24-85 f/3.5-4.5G @ 24 1/250sec f/6.3, EV -0.3, ISO100,
Color mode IIIa, Center-Weighted metering mode, Tone Comp -1, Sharpening +1, All other settings to “0” Shot in JPG and PP.



Nikon D80, Nikkor 24-85 f/3.5-4.5G @ 30 1/250sec f/8, EV -0.3, ISO100
Color mode IIIa, Multi Pattern metering mode, Sharpening +1, All other settings to “0” Shot in RAW, PP, then converted to JPG.


C.Ya…..
Wally
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Nikon D50, D80, SB600
Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D AF, 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G ED AF-S DX, 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G AF-S, 28-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF AF, 80-200mm f2.8D-ED AF
Tokina ATX 12-24mm f/4 AF Pro DX, Kenko 1.4x Pro300 DG TC
~=If dogs don’t go to heaven, I want to go where they go=~
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Wally,

soxOZ wrote:But I usually prefer to set all in camera settings to "0", and PP after, as I find you can do a lot more with the photo.

While this is true, I would, with respect, challenge this workflow.

My question is, "why bother?" ...

You go on to say ...

But if you get it wrong in the camera, then sometimes it's a lot harder to bring it back with PP...

Which is exactly my point: get it right, in the camera, and then you make your workflow that much easier for yourself. Why should you even be bothered to muck around with the image in PS, NC, or whatever, if you can get it the way you want when you squeeze the shutter?

So many people view major PP work, after the fact, as an essential part of the process. While I accept that often some minimal PP may be required, that - minimal PP - should really be your goal, rather than shooting with the intent of making the image "right" at some point further down the track.

Of course, if you're shooting with a special PP effect in mind, that is a different situation, but for normal shooting situations, I think that you're making more work for yourself.

One final - housekeeping - point to note - please, when posting images, keep them down in both file size, and image size. This is to help those who may be viewing the site through dialup, or on smaller monitors. The images you posted are 1024px wide - please try to keep the longest side of any image to no more than about 800 px.

And in just looking at one of your images, I see that it enjoys a filesize of 470+ KB. It should be possible to keep this below about 130KB; with four such images here, I'm sure that you can appreciate how that represents a massive download (of this thread) for those not blessed with a fast connection, and so we try, wherever possible, to try to avoid that situation.

Thanx in advance for your future cooperation in this regard.

gstark wrote:Wally,

soxOZ wrote:But I usually prefer to set all in camera settings to "0", and PP after, as I find you can do a lot more with the photo.

While this is true, I would, with respect, challenge this workflow.
My question is, "why bother?" ... .

You ask “Why Bother”, it’s because it would be great to get “that out camera” shot you are after, but it doesn’t always happen for one reason or another. For me, I have found that making the changes to how you want the final photo to look, that there is a lot greater control in ‘PP’ than using the in camera settings. As you are working on your ‘PP’, you can see the changes happening in front of you, and if you don’t like it, step it back. But when using the camera, you could be in a situation where you are shooting from high to low contrast shots in a row, and this doesn’t always allow you the time to make your changes to the camera settings.

I am not saying don’t use them, as I do quite often and usually recommend to most people to try all the settings, but when I not totally comfortable with the light, I will tend to set the camera settings to “0” (Normal).

In both PS & NC/NX I have standard scripts that cover 95% of the ‘PP’ I do, so it doesn’t take too long to do a batch at a time, plus I only do this to the photos that I will either be printing or posting…

gstark wrote:You go on to say ...

But if you get it wrong in the camera, then sometimes it's a lot harder to bring it back with PP...

Which is exactly my point: get it right, in the camera, and then you make your workflow that much easier for yourself. Why should you even be bothered to muck around with the image in PS, NC, or whatever, if you can get it the way you want when you squeeze the shutter?

What I meant by this statement is that for example, if you apply too much sharpening to a photo with “in camera” settings, it is a lot harder to fix it after, than if you applied none in the first place and put USM on it in ‘PP’. You have a better chance of getting it the way you want it, but hey, if ‘PP’ isn’t something that you don’t like or want to do, that’s OK. As everybody has their own way of driving, but as long as you get to the end in the way you want, that’s all that matter. I was just saying how I like to drive there…
By you statement, I gather you don’t like to do any ‘PP’ (or very little), or consider it a waste of time, as the camera should do it all for you. I can understand this as my bother (Using a Nikon D50) will not ‘PP’ anything and uses only what comes out of the camera, full stop…. ;o))

gstark wrote:So many people view major PP work, after the fact, as an essential part of the process. While I accept that often some minimal PP may be required, that - minimal PP - should really be your goal, rather than shooting with the intent of making the image "right" at some point further down the track.

Of course, if you're shooting with a special PP effect in mind, that is a different situation, but for normal shooting situations, I think that you're making more work for yourself.

Although a large proportion of my shots don’t need any or if at most, a little USM and maybe some Shadow/Highlight adjustment for final printing, it’s nice to know that if I wanted to I can make a photo come to life with a little ‘PP’. This may be considered “Work” for some, but I enjoy seeing a photo come to life, and as I said, I only do it to a few….

gstark wrote:One final - housekeeping - point to note - please, when posting images, keep them down in both file size, and image size. This is to help those who may be viewing the site through dialup, or on smaller monitors. The images you posted are 1024px wide - please try to keep the longest side of any image to no more than about 800 px.

And in just looking at one of your images, I see that it enjoys a filesize of 470+ KB. It should be possible to keep this below about 130KB; with four such images here, I'm sure that you can appreciate how that represents a massive download (of this thread) for those not blessed with a fast connection, and so we try, wherever possible, to try to avoid that situation.

OH! OK…. These are the same links to the photos that I have used on other forums (Dpreview, Nikon Café, Nikonians, etc) and didn’t realize that there was a limit here…Sorry… Will change future sizes to meet you specifications….

C.Ya…..
Wally
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Nikon D50, D80, SB600
Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D AF, 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G ED AF-S DX, 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G AF-S, 28-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF AF, 80-200mm f2.8D-ED AF
Tokina ATX 12-24mm f/4 AF Pro DX, Kenko 1.4x Pro300 DG TC
~=If dogs don’t go to heaven, I want to go where they go=~
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soxOZ wrote:

gstark wrote:Wally,

soxOZ wrote:But I usually prefer to set all in camera settings to "0", and PP after, as I find you can do a lot more with the photo.

While this is true, I would, with respect, challenge this workflow.
My question is, "why bother?" ... .

You ask “Why Bother”, it’s because it would be great to get “that out camera” shot you are after, but it doesn’t always happen for one reason or another.

Yes, that's correct.

But you seem to aiming - from my interpretation of your post - to not get that image in the camera in the first place.

I can readily accept that there will certainly be instances where the image in your camera won't be perfect, but I do not accept that as an excuse for not trying to get it right in that first instance.

For me, I have found that making the changes to how you want the final photo to look, that there is a lot greater control in ‘PP’ than using the in camera settings. As you are working on your ‘PP’, you can see the changes happening in front of you, and if you don’t like it, step it back.

I think that is an entirely different issue. What you're describing are enhancements to the image, but they have little to do with getting the image right in the camera in the first place.

But when using the camera, you could be in a situation where you are shooting from high to low contrast shots in a row, and this doesn’t always allow you the time to make your changes to the camera settings.

Actually, I find this to very rarely be the case. Perhaps I'm not understanding you here ... could you please explain an instance or two where one might go from shooting high to low contrast shots?

gstark wrote:You go on to say ...

But if you get it wrong in the camera, then sometimes it's a lot harder to bring it back with PP...

Which is exactly my point: get it right, in the camera, and then you make your workflow that much easier for yourself. Why should you even be bothered to muck around with the image in PS, NC, or whatever, if you can get it the way you want when you squeeze the shutter?

What I meant by this statement is that for example, if you apply too much sharpening to a photo with “in camera” settings, it is a lot harder to fix it after, than if you applied none in the first place and put USM on it in ‘PP’.

Which is why I prefer to shoot in raw. What you're describing as a problem simply doesn't exist.

By you statement, I gather you don’t like to do any ‘PP’ (or very little), or consider it a waste of time, as the camera should do it all for you.

No, you've basically got that wrong.

I prefer to do very little, but I do prefer to try to get it right first time. There's a very big difference.

But I come from a film background, and a long history of having a lot of fun in a proper darkroom. Digital is far more flexible, but I find that much of what I see being done in digital PP is being done to cover up flaws in the original image.

This is going nowhere, and will be a no win situation (not that it has to be), as you believe in photographing and work flow the way you want, and I obviously do it a different way. I don’t agree with a lot of things you are saying, but that’s my choice and you don’t have to agree with me and that’s your choice.

You will continue to shot in a method that suits you and so will I, so it’s not really worth carrying this on any more as neither you or I will change the way we do things. I respect what you have to say, but I still believe and like the way I do things. End of story….. BTW, as for the high contrast situation, I was photographing last week in bright sunlight (high contrast), and then had to turn around and take the next shots under a tree and verandah that that had very little contrast and then back into direct sunlight…. There are plenty of situation that this happens in real life… Again, not interested in discussing it any further, but just saying that there are these shooting situation everyday…. No hard feelings... ;o))

Hope you Have a Happy New Year………

C.Ya…..
Wally
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Nikon D50, D80, SB600
Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D AF, 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G ED AF-S DX, 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G AF-S, 28-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF AF, 80-200mm f2.8D-ED AF
Tokina ATX 12-24mm f/4 AF Pro DX, Kenko 1.4x Pro300 DG TC
~=If dogs don’t go to heaven, I want to go where they go=~
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soxOZ wrote:BTW, as for the high contrast situation, I was photographing last week in bright sunlight (high contrast), and then had to turn around and take the next shots under a tree and verandah that that had very little contrast and then back into direct sunlight….

That's certainly a change in lighting conditions.

But it's all too easily addressed by using appropriate exposure. If you find the sunlight too "contrasty" - I presume your concern being the harsh shadows one needs to deal with - why not add more light into the equation by using fill flash? This brings you back as the person - the photographer - in charge of the situation.

Alternatively, as the photographer, shoot from a different point of view. Again, it's easy for me to offer suggestions from an armchair, and in the field, some of these options might not be practical.

But some of them are always available.

I certainly don't view the conditions you're describing as difficult shooting condiitions, and I certainly have rarely experienced issues in migrating between those sorts of lighting conditions from one shot to the next.

One final point that has not been discussed, btw, is the use of custom curves within the camera: I find them most useful, and would ask whether you have ever tried using any?

gstark wrote:

That's certainly a change in lighting conditions.

But it's all too easily addressed by using appropriate exposure. If you find the sunlight too "contrasty" - I presume your concern being the harsh shadows one needs to deal with - why not add more light into the equation by using fill flash? This brings you back as the person - the photographer - in charge of the situation.

That’s true, using flash would have solved the problem, but I didn’t have a flash with me or on the camera, only the onboard unit. To be honest, it was one of those situation (Company BBQ), where you don’t get given the time to think about the shot, and you just shoot to get the moment. At least I was able to use them with a little ‘PP’ applied, but all the photos in the sunlight were all good, which was where the majority of shots that were taken… ;o))

Alternatively, as the photographer, shoot from a different point of view. Again, it's easy for me to offer suggestions from an armchair, and in the field, some of these options might not be practical.
But some of them are always available.

Yes there is always something available, but it always depends on time available and timing. If you are going to catch the moment there isn’t always time, but if you plan the shot, well there is the time...

I certainly don't view the conditions you're describing as difficult shooting condiitions, and I certainly have rarely experienced issues in migrating between those sorts of lighting conditions from one shot to the next.

No they are not usually difficult, point taken, but when you are talking to someone and you turn around to suddenly see in the heavily shaded area of the verandah the shot you want that won’t be there in the next 5 seconds, you don’t have time to change your settings, well you just fire away and hope you can salvage some of them. But if I had time, OK, you can reset to get the shot.

One final point that has not been discussed, btw, is the use of custom curves within the camera: I find them most useful, and would ask whether you have ever tried using any?

No I haven’t, but have though a lot about them lately, but just haven’t got around to trying them. This is something that I will be doing shortly... Interesting that you have found them most useful, it just means that I will have to try them sooner rather than later... ;o)) Where and how do you personally find them more useful..???

Here are a few links to some sites that might prove interesting reading to some of the people here.

http://www.mastersphoto.net/curves/
http://mastersphoto.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26
http://ronbigelow.com/articles/curves-1/curves-1.htm
http://www.esnips.com/_t_/Kitgard
http://oxfordeye.co.uk/toneup/tutorial/index.html

And if your interested, a discussion on using D50 curves on a D80
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readf ... 752&page=1

C.Ya…..
Wally
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Nikon D50, D80, SB600
Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D AF, 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G ED AF-S DX, 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G AF-S, 28-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF AF, 80-200mm f2.8D-ED AF
Tokina ATX 12-24mm f/4 AF Pro DX, Kenko 1.4x Pro300 DG TC
~=If dogs don’t go to heaven, I want to go where they go=~
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Just to get this a little closer to original topic - Can I heap some more praise on Poon?

OK then - I ordered a Nikkor 35 f/2 last wednesday, and it turned up on thursday two days ago in perfect condition, unmolested by those pesky customs people on the border

Thanks Poon, and dSLRUsers

soxOZ wrote:No I haven’t, but have though a lot about them lately, but just haven’t got around to trying them. This is something that I will be doing shortly... Interesting that you have found them most useful, it just means that I will have to try them sooner rather than later... ;o)) Where and how do you personally find them more useful..???

Everywhere.

Again, as a long time film user, my belif is that there was no such thing as a one-size fits all film. You would choose a film to use based upon the characteristics that you wanted to give your images for an upcoming shoot.

In-camera curves affect the camera's response to light in a similar manner, and they impart different qualities into your images based upon the curves chosen.

Chris,

Great news. Things are a bit difficult over there at the moment as a result of the earthquakes, and your feedback is greatly appreciated.