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I'm very seriously considering moving from my venerable D70 to a D200.

Is there anyone that can convince me not to?

I know a lot of people are very satisfied with their D200's. Gary in particular seems to be enjoying his. Could people share the pros and cons of their upgrades?

This is a sizable investment for me, so I'm trying to make a good decision, rather than an impulse buy.

My other thought is to buy the 28-70 F2.8. Which would end up a fair cheaper prospect (because I wouldn't need new CF cards, extended warranty etc.)

That's going to be hard

Cons moving to a D200
- Image size of RAW 8-10Mb compressed, 15Mb uncompressed
- Battery life is reduced, 1800 photos / charge on D70 - about 1000 photos on D200 (some report even worse usage).
- No infra-red remote shutter release
- Images are less sharp in normal state (not an issue in PP though)
- D70 is lighter (important to some)
- Images can appear more underexposed compared to the D70

Pros
- Better AF system
- Better WB system
- ISO displayed in the viewfinder
- Viewfinder!
- Multiple custom settings (4 to be exact)
- Has a vertical grip (brings battery life back to D70, by using two batteries)
- Buttons to change simple settings (such as a dedicated WB button, ISO button, AF-C/AF-S/M switch etc)
- Better build and feel in the hand (well except the vertical grip )
- Less tendency to blow highlights on standard curve.

The D200 really shines with good glass and shows the fault of mediocre optical quality, so I'd advise getting some of that if you don't already have it.

The 18-70 kit lens actually does a pretty decent job on the D200 as well But the 70-200 VR is fantastic!

Does this help you? No not really, but to that end, if you budget only stretches to better glass or a new body go with the glass!

Brett

Cons
Heavier
More Buttons and Features
Bit of a learning curve
Cost

Pros
Brighter Bigger Viewfinder (d70 feels like tunnel vision compared to it)
Better LCD (makes reviewing shots easier)
More Buttons and Features
More pixels (can crop more)
Controls are more intutive, easier access to key settings AIS lens support only helpful if you have or are considering older lens
Faster FPS
More options re: Quality/ Size / RAW + Jpeg etc
Interval timer, mulitple exposure, in camera frame blending

My current lens line up:
Tokina 12-24
Nikon 18-70
Sigma 70-200 + TC
Sigma 105 Macro
Nikon 50 1.8

I shoot RAW so the applied image sharpness is not really an issue.

I believe the dynamic range is a bit wider on the D200?

I don't consider heavier a con, the D70 is on the light end IMO.

It's a great upgrade Nick, you'll love it. Have you considered the Fuji S5 Pro though? If I didn't use the 5 fps of the D200 that would be where my money would go I'd reckon. Whether you're better off getting the 28-70 instead and sticking with the D70 I can't really say, I'd suggest perhaps both.

Trent, I've toyed with the idea of the S5 (not really read enough on the issue yet, but the IQ and dynamic range look impressive), but pretty much ruled it out due to the fact it costs $900 more - which is nearly 2/3rds the way towards a 28-70 F2.8.

Hi Nick, What a delightful predicament. I use a D70, and it's great, but I would LOVE a D200. They feel as solid as a brick, and when I can assemble the required funds, I'll take the plunge. Then there are all those sweet lenses, just waiting. The price on the D200 is so tempting, it's hard to resist. Now admit it Nick, this is not just an impulse, you have been thinking about it for ages .

Bob

Nick,

can't add much more to what has already been posted other then the weathering on the D200 was also an important factor for me.

I'm happy to lend you my D200 for a day if you want to have a play but you would have to wait till the end of June for that.

Of the extra features that D200 has, what is it you really need and will use? Will having the 28-70 give you more for your photography?

Not an easy decision, let us know what you end up deciding.

Cheers,

André

I'll admit that there is a lot of functionality of the D200 I haven't yet used or experimented with, but I love it more then I ever loved my D70, and I had a crush on it for a long time.

pippin88 wrote:Trent, I've toyed with the idea of the S5 (not really read enough on the issue yet, but the IQ and dynamic range look impressive), but pretty much ruled it out due to the fact it costs $900 more - which is nearly 2/3rds the way towards a 28-70 F2.8.

Fair enough, the S5 Pro doesn't yet seem to have had the price cuts the D200 has experienced. I'm still very happy with my D200.

Part of my justification for this is my uni placements.

I spend two months in Katherine, NT, from mid July.

Then two months in Moree from late Sept.

I figure I'm going to have a lot of time on weekends for photography and great surroundings that I probably won't get to visit again for years - I might as well get as much as I can out of it.

Part of it is probably also the new toy factor

Andre, thanks for the offer, but if I do follow this decision I'll be ordering by the end of the week probably. Want it by weekend of the 23rd of June, when my holidays start.

Once again, matter of question about "which first"?

I dont think anyone coming out from a D70 will not like the D200. Its solid, quick, fast and yet small (without the grip). You'll enjoy this new body if you get one, straight away.

For the 28-70 f2.8 lens (I assume it is the Nikkor "Beast"), be aware that this is a VERY big lens for its focal length. With the hood snapped on, it is almost the length of a 70-200 f2.8 without hood. And its much wider than that, so it will look very huge. Focal length wise, on a DX sensor, it is not the greatest thing to have at all. At 28mm, it is not a wide angle anymore, but somewhere in the 42mm FOV. But at the tele range its pretty good reach, yet not much there either. I find it very good for portraits and studio works, it is sharp from the very wide open.
Mounting this beast on a D70 makes the body feel like a little plastic toy on a metal beast. The weight is quite distributed to the front if you dont have a battery grip on the body.

Its a beast mounted on the D70... but it still feels very solid with balance.

i am going to be doing the same thing as yourself - swapping from d70 to d200.

the only things about the d200 which im a bit weary of are the 1/250 flash sync and the iso issues... but no biggie in the scheme of things, i can use my d70 for higher than 1/500 syncs and i can get around the iso issues...

i've already saved about half of the pennies required, plus im expecting the other half to come to me within the next 6 weeks.

all i can say is:

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:

ISO issues?

And how can you do >1/500s sync on the D70?

pippin88 wrote:ISO issues?

And how can you do >1/500s sync on the D70?

iso issues:
i shoot a lot of low light stuff, at night. people always say 'get your exposure right and you dont need to worry about noise'... well thats valid, unless you have silly levels of shadow... like you do... at night... and in bars... so you do have to worry about noise... a lot...
i am shooting more and more with multiple off camera flashes, so i do not have to worry about this for my **paid** work.
its probably nothing for you to worry about.

hi speed sync:
if you are using a TTL flash, you can sync up to 1/500. the d200 can only sync to 1/250. so the d70 is better straight up.
you can sync over 1/500 on d70 (it has an electronic shutter, unlike d200/d80/d40x) if you are using non ttl flash (which i use a lot).
but the highest i ever seem to sync is 1/500 - over that, you get issues with blooming (i think thats what its called). thom hogan did a little analysis in his d70 review - i cant check it out right now, work blocks his site.

these are very obscure issues, that only seem to apply to me in my line of photography. everyone else gets along fine with their d200, it seems, and im more than happy to carry my d70 in my bag for the few photos where i will NEED 1/500 shutter speed. and, imho, the noise on d70 is more or less the same as d200 anyway...

James I'm sure you read strobist but if you don't he's only recently posted on getting faster sync. http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/

OT : Lighting 102 has opened today too!

pippin88 wrote:And how can you do >1/500s sync on the D70?

i thought i would just skim over this again... in case i wasn't clear enough...

the d200 only has a mechanical shutter. which will sync at a max of 1/250, no matter what flash you use... actually, the sb800 might allow higher syncs with FP flash, im not sure. someone else might be able to confirm?

the d70 has a mechanical AND electronic shutter. i believe the electronic shutter kicks in somewhere around 1/250 of a second, and the electronic shutter allows TTL sync up to 1/500, and allows non-ttl sync up to 1/whatever.

high electronic shutter speeds have some nasty limitations, sometimes, and as i said i believe thom hogan addressed this in his d70 review.

hoep thats a little clearer...

jamesw wrote:the d200 only has a mechanical shutter. which will sync at a max of 1/250, no matter what flash you use... actually, the sb800 might allow higher syncs with FP flash, im not sure. someone else might be able to confirm?

Yep with SB-800 and I'm almost sure SB-600 you can shoot in FP mode, works well and allows signicantly faster sync times but at the cost of flash range.

Alpha_7 wrote:James I'm sure you read strobist but if you don't he's only recently posted on getting faster sync. http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/
!

MMMMMMMMMMMM

i dont read strobist very often, stobist is blocked at work, and i dont use the net at home all that much... too many photos to take

care to inform me the general gist of their article on it? or a link so i can check at home? or both

Alpha_7 wrote:

jamesw wrote:the d200 only has a mechanical shutter. which will sync at a max of 1/250, no matter what flash you use... actually, the sb800 might allow higher syncs with FP flash, im not sure. someone else might be able to confirm?

Yep with SB-800 and I'm almost sure SB-600 you can shoot in FP mode, works well and allows signicantly faster sync times but at the cost of flash range.

i think that should read...

"at the cost of ALREADY VERY SHORT flash range

radar wrote:Nick,
can't add much more to what has already been posted other then the weathering on the D200 was also an important factor for me.
André

Indeed!!
I have been a D70 owner and now have a D200. My wife now has the D70.
One thing I love about my D200 is the comfort in the knowledge of its extra weather resistance. Not waterproof, but it's had some decent rain... Of course I try to keep it off as best I can, not least of which for the sake of the lens. But it's nice to know it can take a bit.
The only thing I don't like about it was that it didn't have a wireless remote like the D70. So I built one for myself.

Now my wife is on the verge of upgrading to a D200 as well...
Could be a flood of D70's on the market real soon by the sound of things!
Biggest initial difference we find is the more accurate colour reproduction from the D200 (WB of the D70 not as good). Landscape shots, skies will more likely be blue instead of bleach. Like there's heaps of reasons but the colour was the first big one we noticed.

My final word? Go for it! Oh, and keep saving, because you WILL want lenses... The wanting never stops.

The prospect of a D200 successor is a point against buying the D200 now.

I hadn't realised the improvements in dynamic range that the D40x had achieved.

Is there an expectation of a successor (announcement at least) soon?

pippin88 wrote:The prospect of a D200 successor is a point against buying the D200 now.

I hadn't realised the improvements in dynamic range that the D40x had achieved.

Is there an expectation of a successor (announcement at least) soon?

seriously, who cares?

the d200 is a good camera. sure the d200s or d300 or whatever will be great, too, but;

- right now there is no such thing as a d200. obviously. you will never ever buy a camera if you are stuck waiting for the NEXT model.
- the d200 will be just as good as it is now when the new camera is released. you will still want to use your d200 if a new cam comes out.
- the d200 replacement will most likely be at least a grand more expensive, HK prices. would you potentially be in the market for a $2500-3000 camera anyway? AFAIK - the D40X has not made any improvements in dynamic range. the D80 (better) and D40X (best) both have better HIGH ISO NOISE charactaristics, but they all (d200, d80, d40x) use the same sensor design (sony) and as such catch the same dynamic range.

again, AFAIK, raw file output from all three cameras should be exactly the same, all possible variables being equal.

also its probably worth mentioning

that the rumours are tending to suggest a D2X or D2H replacement. i follow dpreview a bit, and the rumours have skewed from everyone saying that there will be a MKIII killer D2h replacement to most rumours tending to suggest a D2X repleacement that has a high speed crop that kills the d2h.

i have been reading thom hogans posts and he is suggesting that the next thing out from nikon will be big, and im pretty sure he has made mention that there are at least two prototype designs in circulation at the moment - one is 22mp one is 17/18mp (i cannot recall exactly).

all these things point to the idea that nikon is going to replace their flagship models then filter the technology down. it kind of makes sense.

HAVING SAID THIS
its all just rumours, and like i said in the previous post, don't base your decisions on what MIGHT happen in the future, base them on the concrete information and fact you have availible now.


AND HAVING SAID ALL THAT
i reckon a d200s / d300 will be out in the next 18 months. i dont think it would be muchs ooner than in the next 12.

It matters a little because I plan to keep the camera for a long time, and want to get the most I can for my money.

It could also determine whether I buy the 28-70 and wait for a new body, or the other way around.

Or get a D200 when the price drops as the new model is announced and comes out.

Is the dynamic range of the D200 much the same as the D40x?
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond40x/page18.asp - mid way down that page the D40x is much better than the D40 (which is much the same as the D70), which is pleasing if the D200 is similar. I did have it suggested to me that the D40x had superior dynamic range to the D200.

jamesw wrote:i follow dpreview a bit,

I'm sorry.

pippin88 wrote:It matters a little because I plan to keep the camera for a long time, and want to get the most I can for my money.

It could also determine whether I buy the 28-70 and wait for a new body, or the other way around.

Or get a D200 when the price drops as the new model is announced and comes out.

Is the dynamic range of the D200 much the same as the D40x?
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond40x/page18.asp - mid way down that page the D40x is much better than the D40 (which is much the same as the D70), which is pleasing if the D200 is similar. I did have it suggested to me that the D40x had superior dynamic range to the D200.

the d200 will take exactly the same photos that it takes today, when the d300 is released. hence if you think the d200 is a suitable camera today for your use, i suggest to you that it will be just as suitable if and when a new camera is relased.

but if you insist on thinking along the lines that you are now, dont buy anything. heck man, nikon are going to be releasing new glass soon - what happens if they release a piece of glass that covers the 18-80mm range at 2.8 with VR and AFS. i wouldnt think that would be completely unreasonable. especially since the new cameras everyone says nikon are releasing will be FF.

stop worrying about getting the most from your money. either a d200 or a 28-70 are going to be wise decisions.

i can understand you trying to weigh up whether a d200 or a 28-70 will be the better purchase at this point in time. it makes sense - body or glass, a lot of people ask that.

but as soon as you start worrying about whats going to be released shortly, then you are becoming irrational and just plain silly.

Just buy the piece of equipment that will let you get the pictures you want.

gstark wrote:

jamesw wrote:i follow dpreview a bit,

I'm sorry.

James,

I'm not going to keep waiting for the next thing.

But my decision is currently between:
D200 now and 28-70 in 6 months
28-70 now and D200 in 6 months

It's unlikely that the 28-70 will shift in price hugely, and the only thing that could be improved upon is the wider end.
However, if a D200 successor were to come out soon, I'd then have the choice of it, or a D200 at a reduced price.

I'm well aware that equipment doesn't change when the next model comes out. I simply asked if a successor was expected soon.

pippin88 wrote:James,

I'm not going to keep waiting for the next thing.

But my decision is currently between:
D200 now and 28-70 in 6 months
28-70 now and D200 in 6 months

It's unlikely that the 28-70 will shift in price hugely, and the only thing that could be improved upon is the wider end.
However, if a D200 successor were to come out soon, I'd then have the choice of it, or a D200 at a reduced price.

I'm well aware that equipment doesn't change when the next model comes out. I simply asked if a successor was expected soon.

it is being suggested by thom hogan that a range of new lenses will be out in the 3rd quarter of 07.

this is reflected in nikon expecting lens sales to increase by 30%, the vast majority of these sales are to be achieved in the first half of the 07/08 financial year.

if i were one to speculate, i would hold off on buying glass. but heck, i dont speculate, i buy things when i need them

pippin88 wrote:James,

I'm not going to keep waiting for the next thing.

But my decision is currently between:
D200 now and 28-70 in 6 months
28-70 now and D200 in 6 months

It's unlikely that the 28-70 will shift in price hugely, and the only thing that could be improved upon is the wider end.
However, if a D200 successor were to come out soon, I'd then have the choice of it, or a D200 at a reduced price.

I'm well aware that equipment doesn't change when the next model comes out. I simply asked if a successor was expected soon.

I will always go for a lens first, without quality lens, the D200 is just nothing out of itself. With a quality lens, the D70 can rock away the D200 with a crappy one. my simple theory, that was....

Yi-P wrote:I will always go for a lens first, without quality lens, the D200 is just nothing out of itself. With a quality lens, the D70 can rock away the D200 with a crappy one. my simple theory, that was....

On the other hand, you have the Nikon 18-70.
I use the 18-70 on my D200 as my everyday lens.
The guy that takes photos of people when they have been for a ride in the PR2 race car (Holdden V8 3 seater Supercar) uses a Nikon D2x and he has the 18-70 on it. For its price, it's a pretty good lens.

I was 'forced' into the D70S to D200 upgrade recently thanks to a light fingered hotel worker in Phuket.

after all the insurance hassles (had to go through both my travel insurer and then negotiate the difference with my home insurer) Poons prices and service have made me a happy little camper again.

I'm still getting used to the D200 but love its solid feel, the 5fps, bigger LCD and colour rendition to name a few of the immediate 'improvements' IMHO.

I don't have enough insurance $$ to replace my stolen f2.8 17-55 but I'm happy to bide my time, learn the D200 a lot better and put away some more hard earned for another lens another day.

Just my 2 scheckles worth.

cheers
R2 aka 'the procrastinator'

" I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not sure"

Anyone had any experience with aftermarket batteries?

Are they near to the Nikon ones?

1/3rd the price.

I can't tell the difference between my 3rd party and my Nikon, happy with both.

Alpha_7 wrote:I can't tell the difference between my 3rd party and my Nikon, happy with both.

I can 2nd that.

Geoff wrote:

Alpha_7 wrote:I can't tell the difference between my 3rd party and my Nikon, happy with both.

I can 2nd that.

3rd that

It surprises me to read that the non-original batteries seem to be as good as the originals... I remember reading all about problems with the "copy" batteries for the D70. We still have two for the D70 and they are nowhere near as good as the EN-EL3e batteries.

Obviously the clone EN-EL3e batteries are an improvement
Perhaps things are different with the D200?
Off topic a bit I know but if anyone can direct me to info on the clone D200 batteries I'd like to know. Bet I'm not alone too.

With my D70 I had 2 Nikon and 1 3rd Party battery and your right the 3rd party was noticable "weaker" and managed 100-150 less shots fully charged.

Bit the bullet and ordered.

1x D200
2x Generic Batteries




Now to buy some more storage.

I've already got a 4gb and a 1gb.
Anyone got experiences with cards such as: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/8GB-Compact-Flas ... dZViewItem
Or
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/8Gb-Fast-Compact ... dZViewItem

Or can someone recommend a cheap source / ebay seller who sells decent, genuine cards.

Thanks for all the advice guys.

Nick,
I wouldn't buy any cards off ebay as there about 95% fake..
I've been burnt twice and now just buy SanDisk direct from aussie sellers like Centrenet.

http://www.centre.net.au/Compact_Flash_0007TY.html

have a serious look at these guys, it where I have got mine from with no hassels!

I got a Sandisk 4GB Extreme III for $115 from JB HiFi last week.

just asked the guy if $125 was their best price and he knocked $10 off!!

Try centre.net, I bought from them and was pretty happy with the speed and price they are providing. They're in Australia as well.

http://www.centre.net.au/Compact_Flash_0007TY.html

I would be looking around and buying CF locally. The price has been dropping - quite markedly so.

pippin88 wrote:Bit the bullet and ordered.
1x D200
2x Generic Batteries.

CONGRATULATIONS!!

Another happy D200 owner!

pippin88 wrote:Bit the bullet and ordered.

1x D200
2x Generic Batteries

Well done Nick

You won't regret it. As others have said, stick to locally bought CF cards and centre.net.au are a good place to get them from.

As for generic batteries, I've heard some bad stories about them, mostly that they didn't live as long as the Nikon original. In the end, I got two extra original Nikon batteries. I had just spent the money on the D200, so to spend the extra $$ for the original was better piece of mind for me.

Looking forward to all those photos you will take while in NT.

Cheers,

André

You won't regret it. I just received my d200 yesterday and I love it.

Alex

Thanks for the info guys, will check out some local stores.