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I just noticed something with my D300 which is reminiscent of my D70 before a firmware upgrade fixed it.

I am using a 4GB card. When newly formated, the camera says I have 197 exposures remaining. I have just been out the back taking photographs and playback says I have taken 52 and yet I have 170 exposures remaining.

Also, at around 12MB per exposure, I should be able to get more than 300 exposures on the card.

ATJ wrote:I just noticed something with my D300 which is reminiscent of my D70 before a firmware upgrade fixed it.

I am using a 4GB card. When newly formated, the camera says I have 197 exposures remaining. I have just been out the back taking photographs and playback says I have taken 52 and yet I have 170 exposures remaining.

Also, at around 12MB per exposure, I should be able to get more than 300 exposures on the card.

my K10D does the same ... as each pic is a different size due to amount of detail it recalculates after each image to see how many on average it has space for.

i shoot JPEG + RAW

Big Red wrote:my K10D does the same ... as each pic is a different size due to amount of detail it recalculates after each image to see how many on average it has space for.

I can understand averaging, but 197 represents an average of 20.3MB. I'm shooting raw and my largest image so far has been 13,114KB. As I said before, the D70 had this same issue. After the firmware upgrade it was pretty close to spot on.

As the D70 should be, as it only shoots compressed RAW (plus jpg).

On the D300 you can choose compressed or uncompressed raw; but the numbers are crunched based upon uncompressed.

gstark wrote:As the D70 should be, as it only shoots compressed RAW (plus jpg).

On the D300 you can choose compressed or uncompressed raw; but the numbers are crunched based upon uncompressed.

That's piss poor!. The count changes as you choose different options (raw, raw+JPEG, various levels of JPEG), they should be able to change it when you are shooting the default for raw which is lossless compressed. They can do it for the D70, they can do it for the D300.

Maybe a firmware upgrade will "fix" it.

ATJ wrote:

gstark wrote:As the D70 should be, as it only shoots compressed RAW (plus jpg).

On the D300 you can choose compressed or uncompressed raw; but the numbers are crunched based upon uncompressed.

That's piss poor!. The count changes as you choose different options (raw, raw+JPEG, various levels of JPEG), they should be able to change it when you are shooting the default for raw which is lossless compressed. They can do it for the D70, they can do it for the D300.

No.

The D70's raw is compressed: there is no choice.

The D300's raw may be compressed, or it may not, depending upon your settings.

And even as raw compressed or uncompressed, you may be shooting in 14 bit or 12 bit.

And the sizes or the lossless raw compressed vary quite significantly. I've seen file sizes varying from 9 MB to 17.6 MB. That's a very significant variation in the file sizes attained; what is the typical size? I neither know, nor do I care.

My only concern is that the number displayed doesn't overestimate by too much the number of images I may expect to save on a card, as that may cause me to lose images because I don't have enough storage on hand due to being told I have room for 500 images when only 300 are able to be stored.

But it can underestimate all it likes, as this will have no detrimental affect at all.

I really don't see the issue.

Gary,

Hold down the Qual button and turn the main command dial. As the storage options change so do the counts of the number of images, including various different levels of compression of JPEG. Seems the camera can cope with those changes and adjust the count accordingly. I see no reason for it not to be able to cope with the changes in compressed or uncompressed raw.

The D70 also adjusts the count depending on whether you chose raw, raw+jpeg, etc. Not only that, it copes perfectly well with compressed raw and gives a very accurate estimate of the number of shots left.

While an underestimate may not be a problem for you, it is for me. If I'm on a dive I don't have the option to change cards so I need to know how many shots I have left so I have some left in case I come up against something unusual towards the end of the dive. I may end up not shooting other things in order to ensure I have 20 shots left when in reality I have 50.

You have a problem with two button format. I see no issue at all. I see an issue with poor programming in Nikon's behalf when they could easily cope with these storage differences - as they are already dealing with them.

ATJ wrote:Gary,

Hold down the Qual button and turn the main command dial. As the storage options change so do the counts of the number of images, including various different levels of compression of JPEG. Seems the camera can cope with those changes and adjust the count accordingly.

Yes, I know this.

The variation in jpg sizes though, is nowhere near as great as it is with compressed raw. Again, I have seen, in compressed raw images, sizes varying from 9MB to almost double that size. I can see how this would be problematic in determining a suitable "average file size" to use in these calculations.

Would you like for the camera to calculate based on 9MB per image, tell you space for x images is available, and then only give you 50% of x before the card is full?

I would much prefer that that camera calculates based upon 18MB (or whatever), tell me that I have space for just y images, but have it continually revise its estimates (which it does) and eventually end up with 200% of y on the card.

In fact, I aways treat the initial value as being largely irrelevant. And regardless of the methodology they employ, that much is true: the number is irrelevant.

The D70 also adjusts the count depending on whether you chose raw, raw+jpeg, etc. Not only that, it copes perfectly well with compressed raw and gives a very accurate estimate of the number of shots left.

With the firmware update, the numbers seem to be somewhat less pesimisitic. They are still irrelevant.

While an underestimate may not be a problem for you, it is for me. If I'm on a dive I don't have the option to change cards so I need to know how many shots I have left so I have some left in case I come up against something unusual towards the end of the dive. I may end up not shooting other things in order to ensure I have 20 shots left when in reality I have 50.

I don't accept that. I understand fully what you're saying, but if you're worried about running out of space, you still have a number of options available to you.

First of all, check to see how many shots you have expended thus far in the shoot. As you grow to know and understand the camera, you can reasonably work out roughly what space remains on the card, regardless of what the image counter tells you.

And if you're really worried, change your shooting mode. Turn off raw, or reduce the image size from L to M or S.

I suspect that with a good housing, all of this can be done with the camera mounted in the housing.

And if you pack an 8Gb card to start with, I would guess you would be busy trying to fill that in the duration of a dive anyway?