Dilema - to loan or not to loan?

[Paul]

My dilema is that last night my g/f asked me what she thought my opinion was of loaning our D70 and accesories to her relative to allow her to shot a wedding for one of her family relatives wedding (of which we are not invited to) in a couple of weeks time.
My reasons for saying a big NO! were.

1. It's our (espensive) present to each other for christmas and is still too new to be played around with by other people.
2. I have no idea if she has any photgraphic talent and skill to operate this camera, (I reason that even after 5 years I'll still be learning) appernetly she is a graphic designer and has "used" cameras as part of her work, but I have no evidence of this. And I suspect this is a bullsh*t statement to ease our concerns however I maybe wrong. But surely if she has used these camera for work then she would have access to this equipment in the first place?
3. This also reeks of being un-professional to accept a wedding gig as the offical photgrapher without having any equipment to shoot it, plus we have no idea if she is being paid for this shoot, it's a bit cheeky to borrow equipment and get paid for it in my opinion.
4. We need to have a strict "no borrowing" policy on this otherwise every auntie, uncle, friend & dogs will want to use it for there holidays.
5. If she was prepared to "hire" the camera plus insurance that maybe an option? not too sure on the family bitching on this one!
6. We would have no control of who was using it or how it was being treated during the shoot, I have images of wine/beer being spilt on it or some brat of a 5 year screaming to play it's new "toy"
7. Very selfish of me but if anyone is going to shoot a wedding with our D70 it will be us and no-one else.

I could go on & on but it gets a bit boring...

Needless to say that if anyone from the mini meets I've met asked to borrow our D70 as a back up for a shoot this would not be a problem as I know how you would treat & respect the camera for what it is and your ease of using all the camera functions.

So really there is no dilema for me but I am curious as to what other members think about loaning there equipment to people with no expertise or experience in SLR photography.

[birddog114]

Paul,
Quite understanding where are you from and what're you doing? I'm with you for this long winding road

[Oneputt]

Paul I agree with you one hundred percent. I simply would not loan my camera to someone I did not know very well or trust.

[W00DY]

For me personally it is more do I trust the person.

If one of mates (who had never taken a photo in his life) asked if he could use it I would say yes with no heitation.

1. Becouse I know he would look after it and 2. becouse I know if he did damage it in any way he would always pay to get it fixed.

Lenses is another story though... I would probably just give them the one lens to use so they are not swapping lenses over.

Just my 2c worth

W00DY

[sirhc55]

Paul - to be asked for a loan of your camera and not be invited to the wedding is insulting. You have done the right thing.

As far as lending myself - yes to anyone I know but with conditions - you break it you pay for it

[MHD]

I think number 3 is the clincher...

To shoot a wedding you must be familiar with the gear full stop!!

And a wedding will put upwards of 400 shutter actions on your cam... thats money!

[shutterbug]

Hi Paul...

NO NO NO...don't do it.

If this person is going to shoot a wedding shouldn't they have a camera already?? Why can't they use there own?

If they don't have one...It just says that they have no experience with cameras.

[goodrich62]

Paul,
I have a hard time leting my wife use mine but it is that or but a second and I really want a long VR
I won't mention the fact that she has a better eye then I do

[Glen]

Paul, fair call I think, without being part of your family, but sirhc55 summed it up, you break or damage it and you pay to get it fixed. Big ask to borrow the whole rig.

[birddog114]

Paul, fair call I think, without being part of your family, but sirhc55 summed it up, you break or damage it and you pay to get it fixed. Big ask to borrow the whole rig.

Pls. remember this is relatives ties!
What's happenned if they break the rig or drop the glass and they have their excuses but no fix! cos they do the job on favour of family (The wife).
Or if they do fix, are you happy with your repaired gears in the hand of "careless" or without knowledgeable of the gears?
It's not worth in doing this way. I loaned camera body or lenses to trustworthy members who know how to care my gears but none to other.

[goodrich62]

Paul,
I have a hard time leting my wife use mine but it is that or but a second and I really want a long VR
I won't mention the fact that she has a better eye then I do

[MATT]

Its a hard one , I'm with Birdy, gets damaged lots of excusses but no fix!

Maybe you could talk to her yourself and explainwhy you are reluctant or she could always hire some gear if in a major centre.

MATT

[leek]

100% No...

Any photographer would understand, but others may feel offended...

One possible compromise is that you offer to shoot the wedding yourself and that she can help with the post-processing... split the proceeds?

On the other hand it might be something you don't want to get involved in - in which case - just say no... Just say that you need your equipment for another shoot on that day...

[Glen]

Paul, give her this website, they are at Artarmon (not too far from you) they will rent a D100 with accessories for $120 a day. Offer to pay half, explain to her this new toy is too special to lend.

http://www.lapfoto.com/

[dooda]

Best thing is to say no. Easier to say no to wife me thinks. If it there was pressure, establish peramiters clearly. But the best is still a no. I've lent something to friends and they bring it back and it isn't working quite right, and I tell them and they say "it was working fine when I last used it", and I say, "but it doesn't work fine now", and they say "I take good care of it," and I say, "I don't want to ever see you again," they say, "me too." Good relationships are destroyed over stuff like this. People save up their hard earned money to get these things, if someone else needs it they should do the same. buying the D70 was no small purchase based on my salary but I'm passionate about photography so it was something that I figured out. I would lend out my film camera, but not D70. One day I'll own D2X and loan out my D70, but until then...

Besides, I've let people use it before and the pics sucked because they didn't know how to operate it. Best for them is a fully auto point and shoot.

[gstark]

Paul,

Your point three sums it up quite succinctly. Their lack of a camera is not your problem.

And given the learning curve for using any SLR, and the issues wrt exposure, shooting modes, an the like that take some time to come to grips with on a DSLR, what sort of results are they hoping to achieve?

If they want a D70 to use for this event, they need to go and buy one.

[johndec]

You are in a bit of a lose-lose situation

If you don't lend it, you've offended all your girlfriends relatives, if you do lend it... well you've answered that.

White Lie Time How about "I'd love to lend it to you Auntie Beryl, but my best friend's son is getting baptised that day and he's asked me to take the photos".

Works for me

[Paul]

Thanks for all the feed back guys, you've confirmed my view point on this subject.
Glen I'll pass on the website to allow her to apppreciate what it might cost.
The thing is I've got a funny feeling I'll be the bad b*st*rd in everyone's eyes for not lending the equipment which means she wont be able to do the shoot.
Not my problem..

[Glen]

Paul, if you don't want to be a bad guy I have a Nikon 601 you can lend to her. Guaranteed to have a greater dynamic range than the D70, and as you should point out to her, the point is the photos - not to play with your new toy.

[gstark]

I've lent something to friends and they bring it back and it isn't working quite right

I have enough issues if/when I lend Leigh or Lindy my camera. It generally comes back with at least one setting changed, and usually more than that.

Not a big deal at all in the end scheme of things, and I have confidence in each of their abilities to use the camera effectively.

My point is simply that if I can give the camera to someone in whom I have confidence and I need to still review its settings when I get it back, what can I expect if I give it to someone who is, effectively, clueless?

[gstark]

Glen,

That is a most generous offer.

[Nnnnsic]

Oi! I do have my own now!

And I agree with the others, Paul... it's damn sure not your responsibility.

And frankly, as someone who works with graphic designers, I wouldn't trust a graphic designer with anything other than a typewriter. Most of them aren't fit to user a computer, let alone a camera.

[MCWB]

Paul: I'm with everyone else, don't lend it! If you don't want to be seen as the bad guy, just arrange to be shooting something with your D70 that day. I'm sure there'll be a minimeet of some description, right?

I have a Nikon F50 with 35-80 f/4-5.6 she can borrow if she wants. Set it to Auto and she can use it as a PHD camera.

[sirhc55]

Oi! I do have my own now!

And I agree with the others, Paul... it's damn sure not your responsibility.

And frankly, as someone who works with graphic designers, I wouldn't trust a graphic designer with anything other than a typewriter. Most of them aren't fit to user a computer, let alone a camera.

Oi! Wash your mouth out young man, I am a graphic designer and I take umbrage at your remark

[Nnnnsic]

Hence why I said "most."

"Most" graphic designers do it for the money and have no creative or technical skills worth talking about... when the relative says she's worked with cameras, I don't doubt that they've been simple point and shoots and were probably something like an Ixus... they seem to be stock standard for people to go "Wow! A camera!"

[Paul]

Glen & MCWB,
As Gary said a very generous offer, but I could imagine the responce "but it's not digital, how do I know if the picture is okay.."
Would be nice to see the over/under exposed results though and have a quiet chuckle about them!
Oops bad karma for that comment!
Personnaly I dont see why I should have to arrange a loan of a camera from members for someone has done zero research into this field.

[JordanP]

Hi Paul,

I'm with you on your call, but one question. Is the camera just yours or is it both yours and your g'friends? If it is the later then I still agree with you but think that your g'friend should probably read this thred and have some say in the decision.

Logically speaking, this person who wants to borrow the gear could approach many camera shops with the same request or even offer to hire. They shouldn't have any trouble doing that or pasising on any expenses to the Bride and Groom.

Cheers,

[Greg B]

Paul

The answer is no.

The reason is that it is a delicate and complex piece of expensive equipment, it is unsuitable for inexperienced users, you do not want to let it out of your possession.

An understanding to repair any damage is useless. You don't want a repaired camera in place of an undamaged camera. And the consequences in such a case would be much worse than the consequences of not lending it out. (Repair costs are high)

I think it is outrageous to ask to borrow your camera, and you should have no hesitation or feelings of guilt is saying no.

Don't make up a white lie, if they counter the reason, you are stuffed.

[birddog114]

Glen & MCWB,
As Gary said a very generous offer, but I could imagine the responce "but it's not digital, how do I know if the picture is okay.."
Would be nice to see the over/under exposed results though and have a quiet chuckle about them!
Oops bad karma for that comment!
Personnaly I dont see why I should have to arrange a loan of a camera from members for someone has done zero research into this field.

Paul,
Go get a P&S with 3 megapixels around $200.00 at Strathfield Radio and loan to her, perhaps the wedding gift to her family

[sirhc55]

Hence why I said "most."

"Most" graphic designers do it for the money and have no creative or technical skills worth talking about... when the relative says she's worked with cameras, I don't doubt that they've been simple point and shoots and were probably something like an Ixus... they seem to be stock standard for people to go "Wow! A camera!"

I agree on that Leigh - my last live-in girlfriend was a ”high” profile graphic designer who knew diddly squat and always talked about money - arghh. But when she wanted to know the technicalities she came to me - again arghh - long gone phew

[Paul]

An understanding to repair any damage is useless. You don't want a repaired camera in place of an undamaged camera. And the consequences in such a case would be much worse than the consequences of not lending it out. (Repair costs are high)

And they also take many weeks/months to be returned which is my biggest fear.

I think it is outrageous to ask to borrow your camera, and you should have no hesitation or feelings of guilt is saying no.

I certainly have no guilt in protecting my equipment, in fact I'm proud to say no!

Don't make up a white lie, if they counter the reason, you are stuffed.

Agreed, my points above will be my reasons when I politely tell her sorry try somewhere else like http://www.lapfoto.com

[rokkstar]

If I had received an invite to the wedding I would have said yes probably, because I could have kept an eye on it. But to not be going is just not on.

Hell, I dont even let my girlfriend look at my camera. It's like the spinal tap bit where he is showing off his guitars.
Never taken the price off of this one, never even played it....No dont even look at it.!!!

If I break it, it's my dumb luck. If a relative breaks it I want them to pay and feel guilty as hell that they have to!!

THey should really have their own camera

Matt

[Paul]

Hi Paul,
I'm with you on your call, but one question. Is the camera just yours or is it both yours and your g'friends? If it is the later then I still agree with you but think that your g'friend should probably read this thred and have some say in the decision.

The camera is both of ours as we are a couple/partners from which we share everything in our lives. So what I own, she owns and vice versa.
Yes I purchased the camera and the toys to go with it but I still view it as ours.
Rachel respects the purchasing part due to the interest I have in this subject and also as a possible career move for myself, if this ever happens is another topic!
She also aggree's with me on the no borrowing policy fully, she is very protective of her "baby" as much as I am.
Although I'm sure this will change if we ever have kids!

[redline]

its one of thoughs "if you don't you be dammed if you do still be dammed"

have you had a chat to this person yourself?
perhaps stating that if they were prepared to replace the equipment if ANY damage were to come upon it, maybe.
Are you going to be ok without a camera for x time, would you need it personally for shooting stuff?

but honestly what happens if she/he did borrow it had shot a completey awful wedding, they might blame it on equipment.

[gstark]

Paul,

She also aggree's with me on the no borrowing policy fully, she is very protective of her "baby" as much as I am.
Although I'm sure this will change if we ever have kids!

If you want to borrow mine to try them out, perhaps at someone else's wedding, please feel free to ask.

[Onyx]

Paul, best of luck out of this difficult situation. As has been said, kindly suggest to them other places where they can hire the gear.

Relatives are the hardest people to deal with.

[redline]

why not just hand them a ps they probaby won't be able to tell the difference. so when is the wedding due to begin anyway Paul?

[Paul]

Allegedly at the end of February, lack of notice also pi**ed me off.

[Mark T]

but honestly what happens if she/he did borrow it had shot a completey awful wedding, they might blame it on equipment.

This would be my number 1 argument for not lending it.

This camera can be used to take some excellent photos, but it does take some getting used to.

I believe you would be doing the bride and groom a disservice if you were to lend your camera to a photographer who was not experienced in using the D70. Put the welfare of the wedding couple first and don't lend out your camera!

Best regards,

Mark T

[lukeo]

1. If they don't own a Nikon camera, they expect to borrow it to shoot a wedding, which have notoriously high expections, they will of course expect the best in "Auto" mode, and will be utterly crucified by the bride and groom.

2. Do the Bride and Groom a favour and say no. I would not want photo's of my wedding taken by someone who was using the equipment on a non professional basis (even if the have dabbled with Nikon before)

3. Even you take the time to point out the program modes, white balance, spot focus, flash sync, fill flash, and any other a hundred other techniques she will probably only remember half of them if that resulting in less than optimal results.

4. Do you trust them to swap lense's, and yes if they break anything what happens?

5. If they photo's they take are not appreciated who is going to get burnt?

6. Say no, suggest hire (for reasons such as lacking an SB 800 flash or 85mm portrait lens), suggest hiring a backup photographer (if you dont want to hurt feelings) or simply say "You are not having my camera, I don't trust you or your skils, go hire a professional". How that would go down I do not know.

[fozzie]

Paul,

As I see it, the questioned has been asked of you, and there can only be but two answers - 'Yes' or 'No'. You have correctly responded with a 'NO'. There is no reason to specify why, that is just your position to the question.


TTFN,

[NeoN]

Paul !!!, it's Black and White .

You are not invited to the wedding ,they did not even tell you the date of the wedding!!!Opviously as a Relative, You don't count ,only your CAMERA does!!! The answer is NO! NO!.
and Cheer up ,Life is a bowl full of Rotten Cherries!!!!

NeoN

[MATT]

Neon gave me an idea,

you could tell them that d70 does not do Black and white. Everywedding should have B&W shots she best get one that can do that


MATT

[birddog114]

Neon gave me an idea,

you could tell them that d70 does not do Black and white. Everywedding should have B&W shots she best get one that can do that


MATT

MATT,
We have been discussing about the B&W in the D70 and Nikon is going to release a new B&W CF card at PMA, and she's after it once again, do you know that she may lurk this forum as well

[LOZ]

Their were 3 things that I would not loan to any one No 1 FISHING GEAR No 2 CHAINSAW No 3 WIFE and now No 4 my d70

[MATT]

Well hopefully she will lurk then she will understand the uncomftable position she puts Paul in.


Cant wait to get that new B&W card

MATT

[Miliux]

Paul I agree with you one hundred percent. I simply would not loan my camera to someone I did not know very well or trust.

Yeah, i agree.

I lent my d70 to my camera. Came back without a kit lens cap!

Ahhh!!!

His excuse is that he thought the cap was missing before i lent it to him.