I need to rant!

[ATJ]

As some of you may remember, I had a minor flood with my Ikelite D300 housing on the Saturday of the June long weekend.

I have leak detector in the housing which flashes a bright orange LED if it detects any water in the housing. There's a pair of strips of copper on the bottom of a "Bakelite" board which placed at the lowest point of the housing and even a single drop of water can trigger it.

On the Saturday of the June long weekend I was taking some photos and went to adjust the aperture. There's a control on the housing that lets me do that but I was having problems and I jiggled the control just a bit and immediately the leak detector went off indicating water in the housing. My buddy and I made an emergency ascent (well a camera emergency not a people emergency) from 18 metres while also heading back to shore. That took all of 5 minutes. Back at the car I could see that a few millilitres of water had got into the housing. Fortunately, the sanitary napkin in the housing had soaked up most of it and none got on the D300 or my precious 60mm lens.

I then had a dilemma, do I send the housing to Ikelite for repair or do I repair it myself? My fear with sending it to Ikelite is they wouldn't be able to reproduce the problem as it requires both pressure and the jiggling of the control. I also needed to satisfy myself that it was the control that caused the problem.

On the Monday of the long weekend I took the housing for a dive without the camera, leak detector or sanitary pad. For almost all of the dive I just held the housing and didn't touch any of the controls. Right near the end I jiggled the suspect control and sure enough I witnessed the water entering the housing. I even did it a second time to be sure. I now knew where the water was getting in.

I emailed Ikelite that night and also asked for opinions on WetPixel. Ikelite said to send it in to them (in Indianapolis) which would take a week and cost me over $100. The advice on WetPixel was it was probably an O or X ring and they are easy to replace myself. I went with the DIY option and contacted the Australian distributor for a set of O and X rings. They arrived on the Friday and I replaced them within 10 minutes - it really was a very easy job.

The next day I took just the housing for a dive (as before) and did the same thing: waited until the end of the dive to test things. I was not able to make any water get in. I also noticed that the control seemed a lot tighter than before. I was a happy boy.

Over the next 2 weekends I took the camera for two dives and had no problems at all. Conditions were not great for those 2 dives so I took very few photos, but there were no leaks at all.

General diving conditions were pretty poor for most of July and I didn't get in for another dive until 25 July. On a dive that weekend the housing seemed to perform very well. I took lots of photos, including adjusting the aperture a few times on the dive. At one point I even jiggled the control as I was confident it was fixed. The leak detector did not alert. The housing went into the back of the car as normal after the dive. When I got home, the leak detector was flashing. Water had got in but it mustn't have made it to the detector until the movement in the car. There was much less water than before (although the pad had soaked up a bit) but there was still some there. I'm pretty sure it was the jiggling of the control that did it.

The next weekend I took the camera and housing for another dive. This time I was very careful when changing apertures not to jiggle the control. No water got into the housing which assured me it wasn't just a general leak.

I emailed Ikelite again explaining the problem in detail and asking for assurance they'd be able to test it properly. They said they can do a vacuum test which allows them to simulate the pressure but still being able to manipulate the controls. They said I needed to include an letter explaining the problem.

On Tuesday 4 August I packaged up the housing with a very detailed letter explaining the problem and that it was the sub-command dial control that was letting in water, and shipped it to them. They got the housing on Friday 7 August.

On the morning of 18 August (so COB 17 August in the US), I get an email from Ikelite saying they have done a pressure test (just a basic test not the vacuum test) and it did not leak and asking if there was anything else I wanted done before they sent it back. To say I was annoyed at this point is an understatement. I wrote back to them explaining yet again the problem (as already detailed in the letter) and that a vacuum test was required with particular attention to that control.

The next morning I get an email from Ikelite saying they'd get the repair tech to go over it with a vacuum test again (even though the previous email suggested that a vacuum test hadn't been done) and that a copy of the letter had been printed for him - um... it was already printed in the box with the housing. This is now the morning of the 19th for me and the afternoon of the 18th for them.

I didn't hear back from them so I assumed they were continuing with the testing. On the evening of Tuesday 25 August, there's a knock at the door and there's a courier with the housing. I check the documentation and it was sent on the 19th but nothing stating what they had done. There was no charge for the investigation or shipping back to me.

I email them to find out what was done an was told they vacuum tested it and could not get it to leak. They also pulled all the controls apart and claimed they could see evidence of water getting past one of the controls on the back and they replaced that control. Now, if water had indeed got past one of the controls on the back of the housing, the camera would have got wet. There's not much clearance between the back and the camera. At no point has the camera got wet. They did nothing at all about the sub-command dial control (which I know was letting water in and can do it without wetting the camera).

I was pretty disappointed that they had not done any work on the suspect control, despite me telling them a number of times I had seen water get in. They also didn't even bother to email me before they sent the housing back - because if they had I would have told them to replace the control even if I had to pay for it.

I took the housing for another dive on Friday afternoon and I couldn't get it to leak. Even though I wasn't confident it was fixed, I was desperate to take photos so I took the camera on a night dive. I had no problems at all for the whole dive. I didn't need to change the aperture and I wasn't going to push my luck - at least on a night dive. Just as I was standing up at the end of the dive to take my fins off, the detector started flashing. I can't be sure if water got in earlier and standing up caused the water to flow over the detector's sensor or if I might have bumped the control as I was standing up (which is entirely possible as the control is next to the handle). Bottom line was I still had a leaky housing.

Another email to Ikelite and they are now suggesting I don't know how to put the main and port O rings in - despite having more than 100 dives with DSLR housings and even more dives with previous housings and cameras. I also now have to take the housing for another dive empty to try to find where the water is getting in because I can't trust Ikelite. And when I do find the leak, it's going to cost me another $120 to send it to them to not fix it.

Not happy Jan!

[surenj]

It's a pity that they don't have an Australian branch/distributor or repair service. The only difference it seems, would be the cost of sending your stuff. Their communication seems to be atrocious. [or maybe they think that $100 is not that much]

but I am curious, would your insurance cover it, if you damaged your stuff underwater?

[ATJ]

It's a pity that they don't have an Australian branch/distributor or repair service.

There is a distributor in Byron Bay, but I don't believe they repair. They'd just send it on to Ikelite and take a cut (I assume).

Interestingly, while the D300 housing was away, I took the D70 housing for a dive (without camera) to make sure it didn't leak so I could use it while waiting for the D300. There was a Canon shooter on the sure (not diving) taking insect photos and we got talking. Apparently he services housings for Kev Deacon/Dive2000 (Neutral Bay) and can do Ikelite. Taking the housing to Dive2000 would be an option although when I asked him what he does about replacing controls he says he makes up new ones which would make me a little nervous.

I might actually see if I can get Ikelite to send me a replacement control with O and X rings. I know I could replace it as I basically did that already.

but I am curious, would your insurance cover it, if you damaged your stuff underwater?

I'm with Aon. When I asked them, they said they would cover my gear in the event of a flood. The main problem would be that I'd be without the D300 while the claim was settled and if worse, if I was using the 60mm f/2.8D at the time, I wouldn't be able to replace it.

[Matt. K]

Andrew
Sorry to hear about your leaking housing. Water is the most slippery of stuff but if the housing is meant to keep the water out then that is exactly what you have a right to expect. Under water housings are not cheap so keep the pressure (pun), on them. Maybe send them a link to this thread so that they know 3000 photographers are watching to see how this ends.

[biggerry]

Andrew, I hope you felt better after delivering that post It was a good read and well worth it from the point of ensuring others looking at (or current owners) underwater housings are aware of some of the potential issues, not only with the actual unit but also the issues dealing with repair/warranty.

I hope you get some resolution with your housing soon, I can appreciate how frustrating it must be, intermittment problems are always the worst and hardest to deal with.

[aim54x]

I'm with Gerry here, I hope you get a resolution for this issue, it is not one that you can live with unlike my LCD issue with my D300 and Nikon Australia.

I would cringe about homemade replacement controls as well!

[Willy wombat]

I feel your pain with being forced to send expensive underwater equipment overseas because distributors in Australia have not got the expertise to fix anything but the most simple of problems. I would rant like you if they couldnt fix the problem. It would make me especially angry if I had explained the problem to them in detail! That sucks that Ike didnt take the time to fully investigate your gear after you paid the freight to get it to them.

[Alpha_7]

That is so frustrating when you spend big bucks on a housing, and its not peforming as it should, and they don't even test it throughly. I'd be asking polited for them to replace the whole damn thing!
I hope you get more joy, and can find a happy resolution to this Andrew.

[ATJ]

 AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH!

They have agreed to send me a replacement control - at least for the one I suspect is causing the issue. 5 points to them.

In all my correspondence with them I have indicated it was the sub-command dial control that was letting water in. The term sub-command dial is used by Nikon in the D300 manual for the dial at the front that you use to adjust the aperture (and other things as required). The manual that came with the housing also called this sub-command dial. On the housing it is a knob on the side (right side when looking from the rear of the housing). In my correspondence I even mentioned (on more than one occasion) that the problem first happened while I was adjusting the aperture.

I just received an email from them asking me to confirm the housing model and control in question. 5 points to them (even though it was documented in the same email).

But the email assumed it was the "command dial on the back". What? Didn't they read any of my emails or the letter that I included? What did they actually test? minus 100 points from them

[Wink]

Can't blame you for being mad. I would be too!

Have you noticed any air coming out of it when underwater?
I'd think that if water can get in then air could more easily get out.

[gstark]

Andrew,

I feel your pain.

Didn't they read any of my emails or the letter that I included?

Probably not. Sadly, I find that way too often these people fail to read anything that you write. They will have a preconception of what the problem might be, and will respond based upon that preconception.

Facts? What are they?

[ATJ]

Have you noticed any air coming out of it when underwater?
I'd think that if water can get in then air could more easily get out.

Air compresses, water doesn't. Water pressure increases with depth. At 10m the pressure it twice that at the surface. As the housing is rigid, the pressure of the air inside the housing is half that of the surrounding water (at 10m). Air will not come out under this force, but water can go in, if the housing is not sealed.

[ATJ]

It gets worse.

I took the (empty) housing for another test dive today, to 13 metres. I tested every single control on the housing. I pressed all the buttons and pulled/jiggled all the knobs. I found three (3) controls that let water in.



It did not take much effort to make the water go in - just pull the knob out slightly and jiggle it. Water goes down the shaft past the X ring.

Interestingly, I was not able to get the sub-command dial control to leak. I guess this means I did indeed fix it.

Looks like it's time to start looking for another brand of housing.

[gstark]

Andrew,

Is there a possibility that, when you were jiggling the sub-command dial, you may have also touched one of the other controls that you're now finding as faulty, and thus, while you were thinking there was an issue with that control, it might have been one of these? I can see, perhaps that with gloves on and holding the housing by the lh grip, perhaps a gloved hand might touch the focus selector?

If your attention is directed toward the sub-command control, perhaps such an occurrent may go unnoticed?

Just a random thought .... the absence of attention to detail in the failed attempted repair is really very poor service. Have you tried bringing this to the attention of their senior management?

[Willy wombat]

Oh dear - Perhaps its time to ask for a replacement. In reading this post again, im interested to know how much you think this "wiggling" technique of yours (of the controls) falls within the spec of normal use.

[ATJ]

Is there a possibility that, when you were jiggling the sub-command dial, you may have also touched one of the other controls that you're now finding as faulty, and thus, while you were thinking there was an issue with that control, it might have been one of these? I can see, perhaps that with gloves on and holding the housing by the lh grip, perhaps a gloved hand might touch the focus selector?

If your attention is directed toward the sub-command control, perhaps such an occurrent may go unnoticed?

In each of the cases, sub-command dial control, card cover latch, focus selector and Quality/ISO/WB, I could see the water actually entering through that control. There is no doubt in my mind that each of the controls was/is letting in water.

Plus, I don't wear gloves.

Just a random thought .... the absence of attention to detail in the failed attempted repair is really very poor service. Have you tried bringing this to the attention of their senior management?

I will try, although I'm not sure who management is anymore, now that Ike has died.

[ATJ]

Oh dear - Perhaps its time to ask for a replacement. In reading this post again, im interested to know how much you think this "wiggling" technique of yours (of the controls) falls within the spec of normal use.

Steve, while I wouldn't consider the wiggling normal, it is well within the realms of what could and would happen if there was a surge or another diver bumped you while adjusting the control.

I haven't been able to achieve the same results with my D70 housing which is essentially the same but older and in theory more worn.

[ATJ]

I have some great news. Ikelite have reviewed the situation and have offered to send me a new housing. They said they would normally just replace all the glands and O rings but because of the issues I've had they will replace the whole housing.

As I can find no (Google) evidence of other Ikelite housings having the same issues I have to assume mine was a one off and so the new one will be perfect. Of course, I am interested in what they find out about the problem housing in case it was some maintenance issue of mine.

[gstark]

Andrew,

That is a great resolution. How did this come about? You obviously did't sit on your hands on this matter.

[ATJ]

Gary,
Actually, I did sort of sit on my hands... When I got home from my dive on Saturday where I tested the housing and found the 3 leaking controls, I emailed the repair department telling them about the the leaks fully expecting them to ask me to send the housing back. Being Memorial Day on Monday, I didn't expect to hear anything back until Wednesday morning. When I did hear back, it wasn't from the repair department, but was from one of the owners offering the replacement.

I don't know what trigger this. It could have simply been a review by the repair department sending it up the chain. It could have been the thread I created on Wetpixel back in June when the problem first happened and which I have been updating, including the latest leak. I didn't have to be anything but civil in the whole thing which is really great.

Of course, I had found out who the owner is now (Ike died a couple of years ago) and was prepared to email him if necessary.

[aim54x]

This is great to hear that there has been a nice resolution to your leaky situation.

[gstark]

Andrew,

I think it's great that this has come from them, internally. It does say something about them, and suggests perhaps that the poor experience that you suffered was an aberration.

Thanks for keeping us all up to date on this, and thanks for expanding upon the resolution. I think you have provided us with some valuable information.

[aim54x]

It is good to hear that good customer service in terms of repair departments still exists...now if only I can convince Nikon Australia that my D300 is being silly.....should I start my rant thread?

[ATJ]

Can this get any worse?

As above, Ikelite have agreed to replace the housing and pay for the shipping of the old housing back to them.

Last Thursday morning I called DHL to arrange a pick-up and was told someone would be there between 1 and 5pm. So I hung around until 5:45pm. No show. The dogs missed their walk. I rang DHL to be told that they don't service my area and a different company would be picking up - and they would be here Friday between 8am and 5pm. At 2:45 the guy finally arrives and the parcel is on its way... According to the tracking it still hasn't arrived.

Code: Select all

Date and time          Status                                  Location Service Area
9/15/2009  7:52 am     Shipment arrived at incorrect facility. Dayton, OH
                       Sent to correct destination.
           5:30 am     Processed at DHL Location.              Cincinnati Hub, OH
9/14/2009  8:03 pm     Processed at DHL Location.              San Francisco Gateway, CA
9/13/2009  7:48 pm     Shipment on Hold.                       San Francisco Gateway, CA
           2:16 pm     Clearance processing complete           San Francisco Gateway, CA
           9:45 am     Processed at DHL Location.              Sydney, Australia
9/12/2009 12:02 pm     Shipment on Hold.                       Sydney, Australia
          12:02 pm     Scheduled to move                       Sydney, Australia
          10:42 am     In transit.                             Sydney, Australia
9/9/2009   4:00 pm     Picked Up by DHL.    

I don't know why there are so many pauses and I don't know how they could ship to the wrong facility - especially since the correct address is on the box, on the paperwork and was given to them over the 'phone.

Contrast that with the first time I sent the housing to Ikelite using Australia Post.

Code: Select all

Aug 7, 2009  8:50am  UNITED STATES            Item delivered.
Aug 5, 2009  4:21pm  UNITED STATES - USLAXA   Transferred for delivery processing.
Aug 5, 2009  8:40am  UNITED STATES - USLAXA   Received and awaiting clearance for delivery.
Aug 4, 2009 11:33pm  AUSTRALIA - SYDNEY       Processed - enroute to final destination.
Aug 4, 2009  9:36pm  AUSTRALIA - SYDNEY       Received and ready for processing.
Aug 4, 2009  1:55pm  GLENBROOK LPO            Item lodged

I assume that Ikelite won't send the new housing until they get the old housing.

[gstark]

Andrew,

While I feel your pain, a stuff up by DHL can hardly be blamed upon Ikelite, can it?

My question here is that, while I would certainly be inclined to complain to them about the abysmal (lack of) service that they're attempting to provide (they've clearly failed to provide anything good), what would be the outcome of that complaint, for you?

About the only thing I might be inclined to ask is why the endless delays and why the wrong destination, and how they intend to expedite the correct delivery.

And were I to make such a call, I would certainly not be speaking with a call centre bimbette.

I'm presuming that as Ikelite are paying for the shipping, they chose DHL?

[ATJ]

Oh, I am in no way blaming Ikelite for the DHL stuff-ups. That's purely incompetence on DHL's fault. I haven't bothered to complain to DHL because when I've had issues with UPS in the past all they do is point the finger and take no responsibility. i.e. if I call the Oz call centre they'll say it is a US problem and vice versa.

Ikelite have an account with DHL so I assume they use them all the time.

I don't believe complaining to Ikelite or DHL would get me anything at all, which is why I'm blowing off steam here.

[gstark]

Ok, cool.

Just wanted to check.

[aim54x]

Oh, I am in no way blaming Ikelite for the DHL stuff-ups. That's purely incompetence on DHL's fault. I haven't bothered to complain to DHL because when I've had issues with UPS in the past all they do is point the finger and take no responsibility. i.e. if I call the Oz call centre they'll say it is a US problem and vice versa.

Ikelite have an account with DHL so I assume they use them all the time.

I don't believe complaining to Ikelite or DHL would get me anything at all, which is why I'm blowing off steam here.

I have had a terrible experience with sending my DOA Tokina 10-17 back to Poon via AustPost...I went in to my local post office (well local uni post office) and was given REALLY BAD advice and ended up sending it with registered parcel post (no tracking...no insurance...maximum value $500 - lens was $665). I am glad to hear that you have had a better experience with AustPost.

Shame about DHL...I have a friend who's Hassy was lost by FedEx and the insurance cheque was also lost so in the end they had the replacement cheque sent via another courier (UPS) so a replacement Hassy could be ordered and delievered (via UPS). Now that is a comedy of errors!

[surenj]

Keeping fingers crossed for you Andrew. At least Ikelite stepped up their game.

[ATJ]

I couldn't wait.... I ended up calling DHL. For some reason it got transferred to a different waybill. Once I had that I was able to find out it was delivered overnight our time.

Code: Select all

Date and time          Status                           Location Service Area
9/16/2009 12:17 pm     Shipment delivered.              Northeast Indianapolis, IN
           9:32 am     With delivery courier.           Northeast Indianapolis, IN
           8:09 am     Arrived at DHL facility.         Northeast Indianapolis, IN
           5:44 am     Depart Facility                  Cincinnati Hub, OH
           5:44 am     Processed at DHL Location.      Cincinnati Hub, OH
           1:29 am     Transit through DHL facility     Cincinnati Hub, OH
9/15/2009 10:13 pm     Depart Facility                  Dayton, OH
          10:13 pm     Processed at DHL Location.       Dayton, OH
           6:27 pm     Departing origin.                Dayton, OH
           8:46 am     Shipment picked up               Dayton, OH


I have no idea why they transferred it and why they didn't indicate it was transferred.

[surenj]

Patience often pays off.

[aim54x]

Good to hear that it arrived in the end. Sorry to hear that couriers are worse than the mail service. Fingers crossed you get that replacement housing quickly!

[gstark]

I couldn't wait.... I ended up calling DHL. For some reason it got transferred to a different waybill. Once I had that I was able to find out it was delivered overnight our time.

Andrew,

I think I know what may have happened.

The housing had caused you a great deal of stress, and as a result, it too was becoming stressed. DHL, in their ultimate wisdom, were alert to these facts, and they decided that it would be inorder for them to take the housing on a small vacation detour.

Sort of like its last request before it gets the firing squad, or however Ikelite might execute their errant and misbehaving housings.

Seriously, it's good that they reconsigned it and delivered it eventually. Let's hope that the replacement one comes directly to you, does not pass Go, and does not collect PP200 .... maybe it should, giving the hassles you've been subjected to.

[aim54x]

I couldn't wait.... I ended up calling DHL. For some reason it got transferred to a different waybill. Once I had that I was able to find out it was delivered overnight our time.

Andrew,

I think I know what may have happened.

The housing had caused you a great deal of stress, and as a result, it too was becoming stressed. DHL, in their ultimate wisdom, were alert to these facts, and they decided that it would be inorder for them to take the housing on a small vacation detour.

Sort of like its last request before it gets the firing squad, or however Ikelite might execute their errant and misbehaving housings.

Seriously, it's good that they reconsigned it and delivered it eventually. Let's hope that the replacement one comes directly to you, does not pass Go, and does not collect PP200 .... maybe it should, giving the hassles you've been subjected to.

[surenj]

Seriously... can't wait for this story to end well.

[ATJ]

Seriously... can't wait for this story to end well.

You and me, both.

[ATJ]

My new housing arrived yesterday afternoon just in time for the long weekend. Hopefully, it won't be windy like it was last weekend.

The scary thing is the last update from Ikelite is that while they have had trouble reproducing any leaks, they say "that the housing has experienced water intrusion into almost every control". They have never seen anything like this before and don't believe it was anything I had done wrong. I guess I'm really lucky my D300 is still dry.

[surenj]

Good to hear that it's ended well.

Sounds like your previous housing had a "All systems failure" or a "falling apart" type of event!

[amashun1]

So, they replaced a new housing? if yes, then it is great to hear that Andrew.

Looking forward to see some new underwater pictures.

[ATJ]

So, they replaced a new housing?

They replaced my 18 month old housing with a new one.

They have not been able to determine why the old one was leaking, but acknowledge that it has been leaking.

[gstark]

So, they replaced a new housing?

They replaced my 18 month old housing with a new one.

They have not been able to determine why the old one was leaking, but acknowledge that it has been leaking.

Must be about time to upgrade the camera, so that you can buy a new housing.

Andrew,

Have you received the replacement housing yet? All in all, this sounds like a very satisfactory outcome, and your concerns regarding the old housing have been vindicated.

[ATJ]

Must be about time to upgrade the camera, so that you can buy a new housing.

I'm waiting to find out if the D300s will work in the same housing. Then I can upgrade the camera and I won't need a new housing.

Have you received the replacement housing yet?

Yes. It arrived yesterday. It took longer than I expected, but with the crap weather last weekend probably won't make much difference.

All in all, this sounds like a very satisfactory outcome, and your concerns regarding the old housing have been vindicated.

Indeed. Although I'm still a little worried as to why it happened as it appears to have only happened to MY housing which sort of suggest a maintenance problem on my side - even though my maintenance has been the same as for my D70 housing which is still going strong (even after sitting idle for 18 months).

[Killakoala]

Good resolution but a shame you had to go through so much to get it. Still, you have a new housing now

[amashun1]

that is really great to hear Andrew, a sparking new housing. woohoo

I work in a phone company so i fortunate to see a lot of this thing happen.(unfortunate if it happens on you ) Sometime you just got the "faulty" product which takes time to show up, one out of......1000 maybe? I think overall, they are honor to replace it, that what it counts. +1 karma to them!

[ATJ]

As a final conclusion to this saga, I have now taken the new housing on 4 dives, including 2 night dives and it's work exactly as designed. No problems at all. I was so confident that the very first dive was a night dive.

My only concern now is why the old one went bad and could it happen to the new one.

[sirhc55]

The Law of Probability weighs either way

[Steffen]

So, I take it a sealed plastic bag with a UV filter glued in at one spot isn't the preferred tool of the trade?

Cheers
Steffen.

[gstark]

As a final conclusion to this saga,

Andrew,

Thank you for allowing us to all follow you through this saga. It's great to hear that you're satisfied with the outcome, and it's also great to have the insight into the whole process, with its various hiccoughs along the way.

I guess that you'll never know what the actual problem with the original housing was, and that must leave a little shred of doubt in the back of your mind. Countering that is the proven reliability of the brand, and their attitude to making the problem go away, once they understood exactly what the problem was.

I think that that's the key issue here: they do support their products and their customers, and it sounds to me as if the original hiccoughs may have just been something like a training issue.

Dunno, but a good outcome is a good outcome.