Oh My! Can it really be true?

[Matt. K]

http://konost.com/

[zafra52]

I believe it is...

[gstark]

AFD is still a month away.

[aim54x]

If it gets off the ground I will have a snoop but my gut feeling about the mock up is that RF blockage will be a big problem, just the position of the viewfinder window alone will mean a lot of lenses will intrude. The little port for the digital RF mechanism is also very easy to obscure.

But then again my observations are not very valid here and the sun shines out of the backside of any gadget that appeals. PS is it just me or does it look a lot like a Leica T with a viewfinder

[biggerry]

The Purest Photographic Experience. Period.

money back guarantee... ?

sigh.. just take some photos and sit the hell down

[photohiker]

If it gets off the ground I will have a snoop but my gut feeling about the mock up is that RF blockage will be a big problem, just the position of the viewfinder window alone will mean a lot of lenses will intrude. The little port for the digital RF mechanism is also very easy to obscure.

Maybe on long lenses, but most Leica lenses look pretty narrow and don't have AF motors to make them buky, maybe it's not a problem?

No pricing?

[aim54x]

If it gets off the ground I will have a snoop but my gut feeling about the mock up is that RF blockage will be a big problem, just the position of the viewfinder window alone will mean a lot of lenses will intrude. The little port for the digital RF mechanism is also very easy to obscure.

Maybe on long lenses, but most Leica lenses look pretty narrow and don't have AF motors to make them buky, maybe it's not a problem?

Owning and shooting Leica cameras and Leica (+ M-mount Voigtlander) lenses I can assure you that even a Summicron will almost certainly provide some nice VF blockage and even the tiny Summarit range may (especially with the hood in use), the VF is too low on this design, almost completely in line with the lens mount, and the digital RF window is close to the position of the upper FN key on a higher end DSLR (if you watch the video the model obscures it at times).

The whole reason why the rangefinder windows are set above the lens mount in a traditional rangefinder to to accomodate the light path between the windows, but it also has the effect of keeping the lens out of your viewing window, lowering the viewing window will bring that lens into the FOV, and it will be worse if they use a lower magnification (or wider) finder.

Defend the vapourware if you must, but if you have a Leica M and some lenses have a play with raising an unmounted lens to approximately where it will sit on this camera and check for yourself.

[photohiker]

The challenge for modern rangefinders is to keep the camera compact. To that end there is no way the lens will never be visible in the VF. If this becomes a big problem because of your choice of lens, then a digital rangefinder has the option of using the rear screen.

I don't have a Leica, but I have an X-Pro1 which is technically not a rangefinder, but the VF is in the same position. Yes, the taking lens is visible in the viewfinder when using the optical finder even with short lenses. I have rarely found this a problem, and if it is, I just switch to the digital VF.

The Konost has a separate digital rangefinder sensor and an electronic overlay in the viewfinder. It also has liveview screen on the back. http://konost.com/?page_id=7182 It doesn't need all the adjustment paraphernalia from Leica because the RF is digital.

Looking at the videos, I can agree that some people may have problems obstructing the digital RF window with their fingers.

I'm not supporting vaporware, but I'm happy to have an open mind about upcoming innovations. People who have gotten to this point in developing a camera have spent a lot of blood sweat and tears. I'd rather be open to the possibilities than try to take it down. This camera looks interesting but I kinda doubt I'd buy one. Perhaps if I had a bunch of Leica lenses...

[aim54x]

The challenge for modern rangefinders is to keep the camera compact. To that end there is no way the lens will never be visible in the VF. If this becomes a big problem because of your choice of lens, then a digital rangefinder has the option of using the rear screen.

Compact is very loosely defined, we have already seen mirrorless cameras grow to be the same size of the smaller DSLR cameras. The M-series cameras are already considered compact, do you consider your X-Pro1 compact? (hint - they are almost the same size). There is a way to make a VF that does not suffer from lens intrusion, EVF, and if you have a well positioned VF you can minimise lens intrusion.

I don't have a Leica, but I have an X-Pro1 which is technically not a rangefinder, but the VF is in the same position. Yes, the taking lens is visible in the viewfinder when using the optical finder even with short lenses. I have rarely found this a problem, and if it is, I just switch to the digital VF.

The Konost has a separate digital rangefinder sensor and an electronic overlay in the viewfinder. It also has liveview screen on the back. http://konost.com/?page_id=7182 It doesn't need all the adjustment paraphernalia from Leica because the RF is digital.

The VF in the X-Pro1 is in the same position of a Leica M (roughly) try the same experiment.....take your 35mm (its short and fat, but all XF lenses are fat comparatively) and raise it upwards to have a look at when VF intrusion occurs. The Konost may not have the pure EVF mode of your X-Pro1, but yes it will have liveview, but they are selling this camera on being a "true digital rangefinder" and if they cannot understand the importance of VF and RF sensor placement then it is not a usable product even if it technically delivers on the promise of a true digital rangefinder.

I'm just pointing out some very obvious flaws in their current mock up, ones that hopefully will be addressed if this project gets off the ground but the team behind it look like they dont have any experience in manufacturing or product design (2 engineers and two with unstated credentials). Also did anyone else notice the lack of controls, no ISO button (or better yet dial), I can excuse the lack of exposure compensation as it is meant to be a manual camera but ISO is pretty important. There are also no details of the metering system (if any is planned). They will have a tough time finding funding unless there is more detail available and a viable business plan.

I would love an alternative to Leica M-camera, but this does not look promising in its current form. The Sony A7 series cameras may be ugly but they are fitting the bill as a full frame M-mount system (with an adapter) and they will be the camera that the Konost FF will have to contend with. Unless they can ship millions of units they will have a very tough time competing with Sony on price.

[photohiker]

Do you think they wouldn't have heard these (and more) criticisms already, I'd be very surprised if they hadn't. Every device is a combination of goals and compromises.

I'm a glass half full kind of guy. If someone has the interest and the guts to build something like this from scratch, the last thing I'm going to do is to pour scorn on the initial design and the team. The basics are there: A Sensor, a lens mount, a digital range sensor and an electronics package. Lets see how it pans out.

One of the opportunities with this from scratch design is the ability to open source the software. That alone could make this a game changing camera today.

I was an early follower and adopter of Linux, I still use it. It copped much, much more criticism than this camera, but there are parallels. Both started with a very small non-commercial team. Interestingly, another recent example of a from scratch device designed by people without industry experience is the Tesla, guess what OS the Model S runs? lol.

[aim54x]

Do you think they wouldn't have heard these (and more) criticisms already, I'd be very surprised if they hadn't. Every device is a combination of goals and compromises.

I am sure I am not the only one who has picked up on these flaws, but for them to have come this far (or maybe it is premature) to float the product (really it is in a concept stage) to the wider community I would have hoped that they would have been able to address the criticisms.

I'm a glass half full kind of guy. If someone has the interest and the guts to build something like this from scratch, the last thing I'm going to do is to pour scorn on the initial design and the team. The basics are there: A Sensor, a lens mount, a digital range sensor and an electronics package. Lets see how it pans out.

One of the opportunities with this from scratch design is the ability to open source the software. That alone could make this a game changing camera today.

Evidently you are a "glass half full" sort of person, you are one to jump to praise everything that is announced (Samsung NX, Fuji XF, Sony NEX/A7 etc) and you are one to take a lot of heat for this. I agree that some things look very promising, but this whole Konost FF seems premature, too much is unanswered, too many missing details. There is a big difference between scorn and criticism, I have pointed out some (and only some) of the very obvious problems and omissions, this does not qualify as scorn, it is certainly closer to the realm of criticism.

I agree the basics are there, a sensor, a lens mount and vague details about a digital RF and electronics package. What does this amount to? At this point in time we have little more than a concept with vague details, a proto-design from a group that has no track record, no known funding and no experience. Will the project work out? Can they succeed? only time can tell. As for the desire for an open source software, it is a nice dream, but there are not even hints of it coming with this project.

Interestingly, another recent example of a from scratch device designed by people without industry experience is the Tesla, guess what OS the Model S runs? lol.

That is true, but Tesla started off with a few things that Konost seemingly doesn't have, money and experience, Martin Eberhard (one of the original co-founders) had experience in business start up and manufacturing and Elon Musk (who arrivedin 2004) brought further experience and money.

I am not here to argue but it seems like you certainly feel like picking for an arguement, you certainly seem to enjoy it. I merely pointed out some obvious shortcomings that did not seem to have been noticed by the audience here amongst their gushing excitement over this development announcement (really this is all it currently amounts to, and I am being generous in saying that). Here's to the hope that they can get this project off the ground and deliver a product that resembles their current objective, 2015 is here and the 1" CMOS camera should be "in development" by the end of the year.

[photohiker]

Evidently you are a "glass half full" sort of person, you are one to jump to praise everything that is announced (Samsung NX, Fuji XF, Sony NEX/A7 etc) and you are one to take a lot of heat for this.

lol. And the list of my failed picks are?

Correction, I don't jump to praise everything that is announced, but one thing I certainly don't do is to criticise the heck out of anything that is announced and not yet finalised or available. Of course I am not infallible, I don't consider my judgement to be perfect but now you mention it, I seem to have a pretty good track record.

I'm not picking for an argument, but like anyone I have an opinion. It's best to criticise the opinion rather than the person. I take the personal heat generated by displaying optimism and connecting with new ideas. It's a pretty common routine round here, I guess a lot of people are unable to take that leap.

Lets see how how the Konost pans out.

[gstark]

Lets see how how the Konost pans out.

Please, and let's try to keep personal observations etc out of the discussion.