Live D90 Announcement

[Nnnnsic]

Nikon D90
Oh yes. I'm there now. Envy me. Go on. You know you want to.

*12.3 mp
*Expeed
*High picture quality inherited from D300
*Native ISO 200 to 3200
*Picture Control and in-camera RAW edit
*Active D-Lighting

My opinion on the video I've seen:
1280x720 res so that's 720p technically
low light seems to be a weak point of the video but fuck it looks great.
some artificating, but still very nice. almost has a film look to it.

Details:
Scene recognition system that enables face detection
Live view with AF
Movie recording (D-Movie)
Compact & lightweight
850 shots per charge
In-camera Retouch Menu

By the way, the tech specs are coming off of a presentation so yeah...

WiFi with Eye-Fi card
GPS support with the GP-1
Wide range of HD Pictmotion menu options: output to different files it sounds like.
HDMI output
AF-S VR DX 18-105 f3.5-5.6

Available mid-September
Body - $1549 RRP
+ 18-55 VR - $1649
+18-105 - $1849 RRP

D80 is on going. Not discontinued.

FX: D3, D700
DX: D300, D40, D60, D80, D90
Coolpix (new): P6000, P5100, P80, P60, P50, S60, S610, S610c, S710

[Glen]

Very interesting Leigh, the video mode adds something to the package

[aim54x]

does it take the en-el3e battery?

[sirhc55]

I’ll go in the opposite direction to Glen I believe the video mode is a joke and puts this camera in the same class as a P&S. It’s the same as having still pic mode on a vidcam although this can be used to effect as a ‘still’ movie. Other than that the specs seem pretty decent for the price point.

[Glen]

My gut feeling Chris is many fathers will use this to justify a DSLR purchase. I am not a fan of video recorders because I think more people can pp a still image to look ok than can edit video to look like a blockbuster. I don't own a video recorder because of that, but if buying a modestly priced DSLR would I like it thrown in, why not? (as long as they didn't throw out image quality or usability to fit it in)

[gstark]

I’ll go in the opposite direction to Glen I believe the video mode is a joke and puts this camera in the same class as a P&S. It’s the same as having still pic mode on a vidcam although this can be used to effect as a ‘still’ movie. Other than that the specs seem pretty decent for the price point.

Chris,

While I don't dispute what you're saying, I think that this may herald a new era in photography. I'm thinking ahead a little, and looking towards the advent of the ability to record video using an FX sensor. Obviously it's very early days, but this may possibly be a breakthrough camera.

[sirhc55]

If you want ultra hidef video then buy the right gear - may I suggest a RED4k. Now that is a real camera and not a ‘jack-of-all-trades’

[StarForge]

The concept of video capture in an SLR 'erks' me quite a bit... but I guess instead of making a new camera that's between a D80 and D300, this sets it apart I guess...

[BullcreekBob]

does it take the en-el3e battery?

Yes it does.

Full specs are here ...
http://www.nikon.com/about/news/2008/0827_d90_01.htm

[gstark]

If you want ultra hidef video then buy the right gear - may I suggest a RED4k. Now that is a real camera and not a ‘jack-of-all-trades’

I'm still not disputing that, but I've just gotten off the phone with Leigh, and he is quite impressed. While it's not a replacement for a video camera, his impressions are that it will go quite some way to be that one camera that you might take on your vacation, to shoot both video and stills with, and from which you will get quite acceptable results.

And from what I'm hearing, it will surpass what many camcorders are capable of doing, and yet it has interchangeable lenses (some of which are very high quality) and will be comparable in price to those items as well.

It's an interesting concept. I'm yet to be convinced, but my mind is open.

[StarForge]

And from what I'm hearing, it will surpass what many camcorders are capable of doing, and yet it has interchangeable lenses (some of which are very high quality) and will be comparable in price to those items as well.

Hmm... actually this idea sounds kinda cool, interchangable lenses for video... I wonder how well it'll work with a 50mm f/1.2 lens for video... hmmm

[Glen]

If you want ultra hidef video then buy the right gear - may I suggest a RED4k. Now that is a real camera and not a ‘jack-of-all-trades’

I just looked that camera up Chris, talk about sticker shock! The handles seem fairly priced though, at only US$200 each I may do my kitchen in them

http://www.red.com

[gstark]

And from what I'm hearing, it will surpass what many camcorders are capable of doing, and yet it has interchangeable lenses (some of which are very high quality) and will be comparable in price to those items as well.

Hmm... actually this idea sounds kinda cool, interchangable lenses for video... I wonder how well it'll work with a 50mm f/1.2 lens for video... hmmm

While that's not a new concept, it's certainly going to throw a cat amongst the pigeons at this end of the market.

[sirhc55]

I purchased a JVC vidcam system in the UK in 1984 that utilised my Nikon lenses. Unfortunately due to sensor size you were very limited to the actual focal length of lenses that could be used. Imagine a 200mm lens on a pin prick sensor

[BullcreekBob]

So DP Review see this as a replacement for the D80 but Leigh says the D80 lives on

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/nikond90/

[StarForge]

And from what I'm hearing, it will surpass what many camcorders are capable of doing, and yet it has interchangeable lenses (some of which are very high quality) and will be comparable in price to those items as well.

Hmm... actually this idea sounds kinda cool, interchangable lenses for video... I wonder how well it'll work with a 50mm f/1.2 lens for video... hmmm

While that's not a new concept, it's certainly going to throw a cat amongst the pigeons at this end of the market.

Hehe nice analogy there

[gstark]

So DP Review see this as a replacement for the D80 but Leigh says the D80 lives on

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/nikond90/

They say it's a replacement, but the D80 will continue in production for quite a while, so both are correct.

[Nnnnsic]

It's replacing the D80's class but the D80 is still going to be a product for the moment I'm hearing. Perhaps we got told it wrong but I don't think so.

Look, for those of you sitting there going "it's a gimmick" that was my expectation too. It is still an SLR and a bloody good SLR. Think the D80 of a D300... similar quality and from what I was told a slightly faster processor than the D300.

But the video camera is reasonably impressive too and seeing as you still can spend high amounts on DVD resolution video cameras with crappy lenses, having a 720p video format in the D90 is a bloody surprise. I think most of us in there were surprised and I honestly can't wait till I get to push it to its limits. It does handle video in almost the same way as I thought it would when I tried my video camera option for the D300 and I have asked to see whether a firmware upgrade will come for D300 and D3 owners so I am on the look-out for that.

But to be honest, people sitting on their high-horse with regards to "video in an SLR is a gimmick" really shouldn't, not at least until they see what this thing is capable of. It does make sense when you see it and since it's putting out 720p at 24 frames per second - a film response that makes it a plausible and viable introduction to filming for people who don't want to carry around two cameras - I really can't see what they're doing wrong.

Except in maybe some of the controls, but that's me used to D300 dials I expect.

[chrisk]

i cant see how video would be a BAD thing. imo its either a great thing or a nothing thing. its just one of those aditional features that some people want. if you dont like it dont use it.
as long as it doesnt comprimise its photography perfromance then why would it...how COULD it be bad. people said the same about LV aswell.

welcome to the new world and kudos to nikon for leading the way.

this certainly looks like a killer cam. they are certianly on some kinda roll here.

[ATJ]

I personally would find the ability to do reasonable video as a huge bonus for underwater work. Yes, primarily I want to shoot stills, but being able to shoot a short video underwater without having to outlay money on a video camera and housing would be brilliant (assuming I am prepared to outlay for the D90 and housing ).

On my last dive trip there were some people with P&S cameras who were able to get some pretty good video of a large school of hammerheads (>20 sharks). I must say I was somewhat envious as the sharks weren't close enough for decent stills but looked great as a video.

[aim54x]

So DP Review see this as a replacement for the D80 but Leigh says the D80 lives on

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/nikond90/

They say it's a replacement, but the D80 will continue in production for quite a while, so both are correct.

I would not be suprised if the D80 production has stopped already and they are saying it is ongoing to clear the remaining stock of the D80 that is in there warehouse. They did the same for the D200 and the D40x when the D300 and the D60 came along.

[Paul]

Leigh,
Did you get any hands on with the GP-1 GPS unit?
I assume this would be suitable for the entire DSLR range that has a 10 pin port.

[gstark]

Leigh,
Did you get any hands on with the GP-1 GPS unit?
I assume this would be suitable for the entire DSLR range that has a 10 pin port.

Paul,

I can't speak for Leigh, but I don't believe so, as there's a dedicated GPS port on the bottom of the LH side of the body.

[carla_d]

But to be honest, people sitting on their high-horse with regards to "video in an SLR is a gimmick" really shouldn't, not at least until they see what this thing is capable of. It does make sense when you see it and since it's putting out 720p at 24 frames per second - a film response that makes it a plausible and viable introduction to filming for people who don't want to carry around two cameras - I really can't see what they're doing wrong.

I agree. It's never going to match what a professional video set up can offer, but compared to a walk-around camcorder, the ability to change lenses will make a huge difference to the style of video shot. even semi-pro level video cameras don't offer much flexibility in this area.

my other question is about sound, which when dealing with moving images is as important as the image itself. on-camera mics are acceptable in certain situations, but the ability to plug in an external mic is useful...

[chrisk]

great little video here.
http://blog.chasejarvis.com/blog/2008/0 ... nikon.html

the more you think about it, the more you realise that this has revolutionised the dslr market and it will never be the same again.

[chrisk]

from DPreview

GPS unitAlong with the D90 Nikon also announced a very neat little GPS unit, the GP-1. We don't have a lot of information on it at the moment except that it sits on the hot shoe and attaches to the same port as the new MC-DC2 Remote cord (it would appear that the D90 isn't compatible with the D80's MC-DC1 remote cord). From what we understand the GP-1 will be compatible with all Nikon's most recent SLRs (the D3, D300, D700, D2x, D2hs & D200) but are awaiting confirmation on this. It's worth noting that the GP-1 (which provides geotagging information in the EXIF data) doesn't use the standard 9-pin D Sub connector for GPS, nor does the D90 have Nikon's 10 pin data port.

[sirhc55]

Well it would appear that the D90 uses motion jpeg format. Motion jpeg does not use interframe prediction which lessens its compression ability and is is much worse than dedicated video codecs that use IP.

Maybe you can answer this one for me Leigh - what can you play this motion jpeg on other than the camera - oh yes! HDMI out to your HDTV.

[firsty]

I just watched the sample videos here
and I must say I liked the fisheye part, try that with your point and shoot and try get shallow depth of field you std home video cam
with modern media presentations with combined still and video there is no need to carry a second video camera

[StarForge]

These videos are getting me rather interested... I wonder if there's any chance a firmware upgrade can give this ability to the D300?

[sirhc55]

OK - converted to Flash for ease of handling, now what does that actually mean? Looks good but there are other factors in play. For example, what size of card do you need for the capture and what length of time can be captured. What program is available that can handle motion jpeg other than Flash. Can the files be written to either CD or DVD for playback in a home player and under what video codec.

I’m not being totally negative, I’m just being inquisitive

[Killakoala]

I'll keep my F5 and raise you a D2h.

I am sure Nikon will sell plenty D90s over the next two years, but not to me.

[Nnnnsic]

Well it would appear that the D90 uses motion jpeg format. Motion jpeg does not use interframe prediction which lessens its compression ability and is is much worse than dedicated video codecs that use IP.

Maybe you can answer this one for me Leigh - what can you play this motion jpeg on other than the camera - oh yes! HDMI out to your HDTV.

No offense to your knowledge here Chris, but Motion JPEG is completely fine to use. I use it for 720p captures that get aired on TV coming in from a Blackmagic Design Decklink card. And you can use it on the computer in editing suites. We're not talking about a useless format here. Motion JPEG is better than most people realise and I did a lot of testing to find that out earlier this year in my comparisons to Blackmagic raw AVI data. Plus it tends to be nicer to hardware resource usage.

Looks good but there are other factors in play. For example, what size of card do you need for the capture and what length of time can be captured.

I’m not being totally negative, I’m just being inquisitive

The D90 shoots in bursts of 5 minutes. You can shoot in multiple 5 minute sets but it'll only record straight for 5 minutes at a time. And it's roughly 80mb a minute.

And you're being mostly negative though I suspect you're looking for the high ground as the traditional photographer in you thinks this is a waste of time. It's ok Chris, the traditional photographer in me expected this to be a gimmick and I've already told the guys at Nikon that I'll probably be buying one for a second body promptly after reviewing it.

These videos are getting me rather interested... I wonder if there's any chance a firmware upgrade can give this ability to the D300?

Already asked. Nikon don't know but there is a possibility it seems. Not just the D300 but also the D3.

As for the mic questions, I haven't gotten down and dirty with the format but according to one of the Nikon guys we were speaking to who knew his shit and carried some nice gear (plus let us play a bit more than most people got to), it was pretty good. There isn't a mic input jack however and I'd hoped that the hot shoe could be used as a cold shoe but it doesn't look like it. If you want to use it to actually make movies with better audio, probably better to bring a sound deck with you.

[chrisk]

i know everyone must have been excited with this news but by any chance did you get to ask about new glass ? ie: primes.

[Nnnnsic]

Alas, nothing new aside for the AF-S VR DX 18-105 f3.5-5.6 it appears.

Nikon Australia have dropped prices on a few lenses and some of the drops are actually good. Want me to share?

[StarForge]

Pls say the 70-200mm VR has dropped < $2600

Do share

[chrisk]

Alas, nothing new aside for the AF-S VR DX 18-105 f3.5-5.6 it appears.

Nikon Australia have dropped prices on a few lenses and some of the drops are actually good. Want me to share?

would love to know what retarded logic they usd to justify ANOTHER cheap consumer DX zoom needed releasing while ignoring the FX 24-120VR and some of their higher end glass. (its only VRI btw, not even VRII).

[sirhc55]

No offense to your knowledge here Chris, but Motion JPEG is completely fine to use. I use it for 720p captures that get aired on TV coming in from a Blackmagic Design Decklink card. And you can use it on the computer in editing suites. We're not talking about a useless format here. Motion JPEG is better than most people realise and I did a lot of testing to find that out earlier this year in my comparisons to Blackmagic raw AVI data. Plus it tends to be nicer to hardware resource usage.

None taken my friend but I wonder if this format is a compromise. I am aware of the use of the Blackmagic Decklink Pro on Superman Returns and that they used a Genesis 2k camera but what concerns me is that at the low end of the market one has to consider the following quote:

Since the development of the original JPEG standard in the early 1990s, technology improvements have made intraframe compression possible. Technology improvements can be found in the designs of H.263v2 Annex I and MPEG-4 Part 2, which use frequency-domain prediction of transform coefficient values, and in H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, which uses spatial prediction and adaptive transform block size techniques and more sophisticated entropy coding than what was practical when the first JPEG design was developed. As a result, MJPEG is an outdated and inefficient codec, whose main advantages are low processor overhead, ease of editing, ease of implementation by developers using existing JPEG algorithms or libraries, and broad compatibility.

MJPEG is another name for Motion JPEG

[Nnnnsic]

Ah well I guess the problem you're faced with is comparing the use of a superior technology like h.264 compared to MJPEG. I wouldn't suggest the use of MJPEG personally if you're blowing up to cinema size or shooting professionally. I mean shit, if you're a professional in the film industry, chances are that the difference between 15gb for 10 minutes in 720p MJPEG and around 90gb in raw avi is largely irrelevant (I'm guesstimating here, as it's been over 6 months since I've needed to calculate the extra space required for raw 720p avi space).

But for your screen at home, you know even up to say 50-60 inches, you might see some jpeg artifacting but considering that this isn't say on the same level as a proper video camera, that too is largely irrelevant.

I mean come on, what's the least expensive video camera with an interchangeable lens system: four or five grand? And that's not exactly portable in the slightest.

And now you can come along and say that "well sure, the D90 could have eased my issues by sticking it with a h.264 encoder" but one of the guys from Atomic - David Field - and I were talking about that and we more or less conceded that the problem with that would be the encoder requiring more resources than what the camera could probably offer.

[CoryH]

 AAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHH I'm in love. Having video would be soooo sweet, It clearly aint going to be a Video camera replacement but such a handy addition. And GPS without having to merge data later...Nikon read my mind!

[gooseberry]

I just watched the sample videos here
and I must say I liked the fisheye part, try that with your point and shoot and try get shallow depth of field you std home video cam
with modern media presentations with combined still and video there is no need to carry a second video camera

Yeah, those samples are really good. Shows what you can do with it - I like the film movie like look with the subject isolation (like the one of the lady walking in the field with the trees in the background) - something you can't get with consumer video cams with their small 1/3" sensors. Can imagine using like an 85/1.4 or 135/2... or for ultra wide angles like a fisheye or 10-20... or doing documentary macro videos at 1:1 magnification. Nice.

Most of the samples have been converted to flash movie for web display. Here's an avi file of the video apparently direct from camera

http://home2.dip.jp/upload100_download.php?no=2907

key is D90

nothing special (macro scene of ants using a 60mm macro apparently), but shows the quality of the video from the camera.

[feldy]

FYI official pricing in D80 is body only $1199. While they're not conceding this, am sure the above comments [about it being a case of offloading current stock] is close to the mark.

[chrisk]

the d90 is $999 in the US. so as per usual, nikon australia trying to do a number on us.

[Nnnnsic]

While I wouldn't say that the 999 to 1549 conversion is a brilliant one, I wouldn't say Nikon Australia are doing a number on us. 1549 is the RRP which means you'll prob see it for 1400-1500 and I don't think that's too bad a pricing seeing as the dollar is now lower and they will be ordering less than an American company.

Haggling over a couple of hundred dollars for a camera is kind of stupid. Haggling over a grand? Yeah, I can see that one... but not a few hundred when you will get the Australian warranty.

And with video being new on a DSLR, I'd take a local warranty.

[StarForge]

the d90 is $999 in the US. so as per usual, nikon australia trying to do a number on us.

The price of any electronic gear in the US compared with Aus is this way, its not Nikon

[gstark]

Don't forget that for the US pricing, no sales tax is included.

So, take the US$ price as 1K, add the typical 9% or thereabouts US sales tax, and then convert that value at today's rate ... $0.8581 ... result is about PP1300.

I consider that to be slightly higher than it should be, but as Leigh suggests, when this comes back to a street price - which I would see as being in the low 14s, once the body is readily available - the perceived value of a local warranty vs HKG warranty will make the differential irrelevant.

[gstark]

the d90 is $999 in the US. so as per usual, nikon australia trying to do a number on us.

The price of any electronic gear in the US compared with Aus is this way, its not Nikon

The situation has significantly improved since the advent of the GST, but there are still some huge anomalies. Look at the cost of some musical instruments and recording equipment.

[sirhc55]

And Satan arises That much maligned company Sony has announced their new P&S (due in October), the Cyber-Shot T500. Nothing spectacular except for this snippet, video mode 1280 x 720 30 fps h.264. This will enable around 1 hour of video on one of those 4Gb memory sticks

It’s not in the class of the D90 (read sensor size) but it does point to a new direction in what the future may bring.

[chrisk]

lmao...how we differ chris !!
i looked at that this morning and thought...cool, that looks like a great little pocket P&S !!

[StarForge]

I'm curious to see what this will do to the camcorder products that currently compete amongst other things in facial recognition tracking, etc. Having used a number of Sony's entry to mid-range HD camcorders and not been too impressed I'd be more likely to recommend people get the D90 since a majority of camcorder users use them to also take photos (that they expect to print).

[Glen]

And Satan arises