London....Suspect shot at tube station

[Sheetshooter]

Well, I think the cops were just doing as instructed.

A popular line of logic: it was the plea of the majority of defendents at the Nuremburg Trail.

Fighting fire with fire has never worked before, why would it be different now?

[Charlie Chalk]

I think this is way too big an issue to pass off with a single sentence.

I agree that an eye for an eye, fighting fire with fire and the rest are, on the whole, never going to work.

But when the officer in question was given such a short amount of time to make such a huge decision who are we to say if it is correct or not. If the guy had, as the officer suspected, a bag full of explosive then we would now be looking at pictures of a hero who saved the lives of many commuters.

Should we now remove the shoot to kill policy for suspected suicide bombers? what would you do if you were about to watch a guy, 20 yards in front of you jump on a tube train with a bag you suspected to be full of explosive.

I don’t know if what the officers have been told to do is right or wrong, I’m just glad that it’s not my decision to make

'There but for the grace of god go I'

Anyway, it’s late and I’ve got the joys of work to look forward to in the morning so I’m off to bed – Good night!

CC

[birddog114]

So what are the solutions which we think to solve the problems, avoid mistakes and finally our lives can enjoy with the "PEACE and PEACE"?

[Greg B]

Just a couple of thoughts..

Terrorism leads to many innocent victims, and the fellow who we now know was a scared Brazilian electrician was another one. I would suggest that the officers involved won't be feeling to good either.

There are a lot of other individuals held as terror suspects without charge or rights. Some, possibly most, may deserve it. Others may not, but who knows? There will be at least some victims in there too.

I suspect that suicide bombers are often victims themselves.

I am continually troubled at the influence religion can have, regardless of the flavour. It seems that people can do terrible things if they believe that it carries the sanction of their religion. John Howard has suggested that Muslin clerics need to do more to discourage religious violence. I would suggest that all religious leaders could give more emphasis to tolerance rather than condemning other people based on religious beliefs, gender or sexual preference. (Or preferred brand of camera)

I worked for a while just near the courts in Melbourne. Having seen some of the people with whom the police have to deal, I have considerable sympathy for them. Any group of people will have bad eggs, including police forces. But overall, they have a hell of a difficult job to do. And they are the first people we look to to deal with some of society's most difficult, dangerous or unpleasant situations.

[Nnnnsic]

Beazley speaks out against the "shoot to kill" policy.

How long until lenses are confused with rifles or RPG's or arms of sorts...

[hangdog]

How long until lenses are confused with rifles or RPG's or arms of sorts...

Something like <a href="http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2003/652/re8.htm">this</a> or like <a href="http://electroniciraq.net/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/14/843">this</a>?

--Chuan

[Glen]

Leigh, it has already happened, remember when I mentioned being questioned by the AFP when shooting next to John Howard's? They sent a man round when they had observed me with a camera placed 600 metres away.

Interesting more has come to light on this issue. It seems the chap lived in a block of units which was under surveillence, but not his individual unit. It also seems he had been stopped by police three times recently and assaulted by a group of racist englishmen two weeks ago. This might explain why he was reticent to stop when plainclothes people ordered him to. I believe he was stopped though when shot in the back of the head when face down on the ground.

The British Police should be commended for their honesty in revealing all the details of this situation, very impressive to see. As many have said here before, I feel for the poor policeman who now realised he killed a totally innocent man, whose main crime was to be different. The terrorists are dividing and conquering.

[birddog114]

Beazley speaks out against the "shoot to kill" policy.

How long until lenses are confused with rifles or RPG's or arms of sorts...

What's Beazley??

[tasadam]

You can hear the terrorists laughing at this tragic event.

This guy was shot 5 times in the head. If the coppers were close enough to do that, I reckon they were close enough to stop him another way - say a bullet in each shoulder to "take out" the arms or whatever but still give the guy a chance at life. To take the life of another individual - especially an innocent one, is most unfortunate.

Things like "This is camera gear" or "I'm not a terrorist" signs won't work because terrorists can also use them. (I know they were in jest)
Perhaps a transparent camera bag would work so people can see there's no bomb or whatever, but then the criminal element gets a sniff of you and barrels you over for a quick dollar.

Plans like "allowing the terrorist to live by shooting them in the arms" won't work because a terrorist will learn these plans and devise a switch between the knees or on top of one foot or something.

The ultimate solution is a pretty tough call.

At least the terrorists can learn from this that the police won't be mucking around if they get close enough...

Here's hoping they do get close enough.

[birddog114]

Things like "This is camera gear" or "I'm not a terrorist" signs won't work because terrorists can also use them. (I know they were in jest)
Perhaps a transparent camera bag would work so people can see there's no bomb or whatever,

I'm happy with transparent camera bag and walking naked on the street
So they can see from distance.

[MCWB]

RPG's or arms of sorts...

Oh man! Completely OT, but I dropped the acronym 'RPG' in a conversation a little while ago. I was talking about rocket propelled grenades, but the others in the conversation thought I was talking about (a) role-playing games, or (b) related product groups!

[Raskill]

I think the argument that it's all been caused by the 'Iraq Conflict' and 'War on Terror' is now slightly flawed, given the latest terrorist attack was in Egypt and killed by far many many muslims and only a handful of foreigners. These terrorists motivation revolve around religion and the influence of the West upon Islam. So they target the 'West' and Muslim governments who allow western influences to impact upon Islam.

I think what we take as basic rights, such as the right to privacy or the right not to have your bags searched for no reason will come to end. And unfortunately when dealing with a determined enemy, you have to make sacrifices.

And if anyone thinks that nothing will happen here, bear in mind that in 2007 we have the APEC summit, with many 'mini' summits all year. The policing response will be huge and, it was no coincidence that the first London attacks occured during the G8 summit.

On a different note, my Sigma 20mm 1.8 and Sigma 70-200mm 2.8 arrived today, I am without doubt a happy camper, now it's off to Queensland tomorrow, for ten days, to test drive them both!!!

[leek]

I'm happy with transparent camera bag and walking naked on the street
So they can see from distance.

I think that you'd still get arrested if you did that Birdy...

[Glen]

Raskill, the Sigma 70-200 is one impressive lens! Enjoy your holiday and look forward to seeing your shots when you return.

[Raskill]

I hope it's not to good, then I wont have an excuse for crap shots!

Staying about 5 minutes drive from Glasshouse mountains, so I'll be trying for an early rise and give the 20mm 1.8 a run on some landscapes.

[Glen]

Raskill, I read that the 20mm gives good results stopped down if that is any help. I know what you mean about a good lens, I have the 70-200 VR and also don't have anyone to look at when I balls up Which is often

[Matt. K]

A moot point maybe...but if you shoot all the suspects, then only the perpertrators will be left. Then we grab them.

[Glen]

Matt, you can bring a smile to any situation

[birddog114]

The Communist has its slogan:

" wrong or falsed killing is better than left behind"

Aren't we learning up to this way?

[Glen]

follow up to this thread


http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/the-lo ... 25899.html

[birddog114]

Woohoo! It was on the news last night also!

Who is going to prove him a terrorist or a suspect of terrorist now?

So, he's an innocent and killed by the COP and this act is just for fun! No wonder why we faced lot of revenges from the other side.

This is just one of the sample! a million of same story across other regions!!!

SHAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sheetshooter]

If the perpetrators still have a soul they have to live with their actions for the rest of their lives. If there is any justice they will do their time in Longmarsh and be reminded of their status on a regular basis by their inmates.

[Greg B]

I am baffled by developments in this case. I just can't believe that the police shot and killed someone for absolutely no reason, and yet their account of events has apparently been shown to be way off the mark. This is very troubling.

I could understand an honest mistake, notwithstanding the tragedy involved, but this is starting to look like serious incompetence followed by an attempted cover up. And a young man is dead.

We can only hope that the investigation seeks the truth, and the facts are revealed.

[the foto fanatic]

By far the worst aspect of this sorry mess is the loss of a completely innocent human being who was going about his normal business, unfortunately (for all of us) in abnormal times.

But the behaviour of Scotland Yard (once perhaps the finest police force in the world), in leaking propaganda about the "suspect's" clothing and actions to put a more favourable spin on the event is no less appalling.

It goes to show that no government agency should be believed without question. We have a right to be cynical.

[birddog114]

More latest news for a VI "Sir Ian Blair"

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/yard-c ... 81939.html

- He should pay for the loss of an innocent man and his liar over his statements and his cover up of this incident. What's the meaning of "Sir" ?
Don't we know these guys and all the politicians are the "big fat liars".

- The COP who donated 7 shots to Jean Charles de Menezes should serve as a slave and hard labour for Mr Menezes's family in Brazil for the rest of his life.

[Sheetshooter]

- The COP who donated 7 shots to Jean Charles de Menezes should serve as a slave and hard labour for Mr Menezes's family in Brazil for the rest of his life.

Who knows Birdy, as a brazilian slave he may be made famous once more in a picture by Sebastião Salgado!!

I do agree with you 110% Birdy. Totally reprehensible and, thanks to the FINALITY OF DEATH it is also totally irreversible.

[Glen]

I agree Birddy, a mistake is one thing, but a cover up is absolutely reprehensible. This needs to be investigated so it doesn't happen again. As Streetshooter says this is not reversible

[Greg B]

It will be very interesting to see what the investigation reveals. We can only hope that it will be the truth.

Unfortunately, the media also "shoots from the hip", and we end up with a series of evolving reports, some based on press releases (which are not given under oath), press conferences given by people who have possibly been briefed third or fourth hand, statements by distraught relatives etc etc. The media want to make it a hot story, the police want to protect themselves, the relatives want answers.

It would be premature to decide who is guilty just yet. The evidence we have seen through the media is disturbing to say the least, but it is important that all the available evidence is examined as objectively as possible to find out what happened and why.