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How much have you been charged..

I am trying to put together an answer for next time I am asked but I really dont know...

I guess (as a minimum) you have to charge enough to cover you time, expenses and some money towards replacement of gear...

I cant remember particularly clearly from my wedding, all I know is that the cost made us ask a friend to do it as it seemed prohibitively expensive (some thousands I seem to recall...)

So, not including prints and products, but just including your time from photographing the Bride getting ready until the bride leaving the reception and giving the couple a CD/s with raw images (and a quantity, say 100, processed images) what would you charge a person off the street (ie not friend or family)??

If you are looking to do it professionally then you should charge accordingly. You take on all sorts of risks when you are a paid wedding photographer. This needs to be built into your prices.

You pay an architect for more than their pencils and paper.

That being said, it often depends on what you are supplying for the $$$

Personally I would charge about $10 less than the bandit from the north, JordanP.

I had my photos done by a guy who charges, including photos, presentation album, etc, etc $3k for the package. Just so you don't think I have lost my tightarse status, I paid substantially less than that, in fact $3k less for all the negs plus two sets of 6x4 prints.

There's quite a few different pricing models you can use for this.

I used to charge a fee for attending the wedding, and supply a set of proofs (contacts) after the event. There would then just be a per print cost for what the client wanted. I would keep the negs, and prints larger than postcard would be supplied in a photo mount of some sort ... Using a D70 I would still be providing a set of proofs, no larger than wallet size, but still using a similar business model. Probably something like $80-$200 for attendance + proofs, and cost + 100 to 200% for prints supplied.


I know of someone else who goes to the wedding and just shoots the event; she tells the clients to supply the film (she specifies what they buy, or supplies it at cost) and gives them the unprocessed but exposed rolls at the end of the night. She charges only an attendance fee, and carries no interest in the images or event beyond that actual occurrence. Using a D70 in this sort of model, I would envisage providing the client with a CD of HiRes JPG images, possibly complete with slideshow presentation of the photos as well. Probably something like $80-$200 for attendance. The CD costs bugger-all, but the question of how much PP time you put in as a part of providing the CD - with good quality images - might be a consideration.


A third model would be to provide the happy couple with an album of prints from the day; there are a number of wholesale album suppliers from whom you can choose, and some of these are very elaborate indeed. Your costs would need to cover attendance plus expenses. You could provide proofs to the clients, from which they could select x images which would be supplied, mounted in the album. Extras (or perhaps part of your standard service) might include a couple of larger prints, framed and ready to hang. You'd probably be looking at anything between $500 - $5000 for this sort of service.

I think the price would heavily depend on exactly what service you're offering.

If you're bringing a few bodies as backups, an assistant/partner to assist, putting in 18hrs of work on the day plus some background work in the days leading up to the event then you're obviously going to charge more than if you rock up as an invited guest, whip out the ol'D70 with Kit Lens and take some snaps during the ceremony/reception..

Is it very common to have someone doing the photo work but not presenting the images in printed form? The only wedding i've been involved in ( as a guest ) the couple recieved a printed album later on... cost them a mint too..

Yes... the question is laid out in the original post...

So attendance for the whole event, Pre wedding legwork (which I believe is essential), and CD with raw and some proccessed images after..

One thing I discovered at Kelly's wedding is that it is hard work... easily $50-100 an hour work for the stress and difficulty (having to be constantly "on" to make sure you get the shot)

MHD
Take whatever price you are thinking of now and double it.
Seriously, I did weddings for about 15 years and when I first started doing my own weddings (as opposed to those I did for a studio I used to work for) I decided to undercut the competition, thinking that I would get a lot of work. I did but the clients who will not pay much for a photographer, will not pay much for the photos afterwards.

You could consider it on an hourly basis.

You would have at least one pre-shoot meeting, say 2 hours.

The wedding day, you probably start with the bride getting ready, through to the cutting of the cake, say 8 hours. You will need an assistant for this period.

What are you worth an hour? I would think $150 would be a reasonable minimum. Your assistant, $250 for the day.

For this, they get your skills, time, equipment, professional care.

$1,750.

This could include NEF images on a CD.

Straight jpg conversions on CD, $150

PP would be at $150 per hour too, the happy couple could decide how much they want to spend.

You are going to need insurance, an ABN, and a whole lot of small business stuff.

Personally I would charge about $10 less than the bandit from the north, JordanP.

hehehe, I might start charging $10 ... hehehe

In terms of covering your costs is anyone factoring in the Public Liability insurance, insurance cost for your equipment, post processing time & computer depreciation, and the potential risks that can cost a fortune ...if ... heaven forbid technology has a glitch and you need to reshoot?

Hmmm... what kind of insurance?

And if you earn less than a certain amount a year do you need an ABN??

I thought it was 50K of cashflow or something...

Hi I am with you Craig, I wouldn't even consider this without two camera bodies and two different storage devices. I cant imagine how pissed off a bride would be if your gear failed

Hmmm... I might stick to shooting for friends then ...

You do hear stories of the photographer being contractually obligated to pay the cost for the wedding to be re-shot... <shudders>

MHD, it is $50k but without it you can't claim input credits (gst on stuff you buy) but also not having one means you cant charge GST which makes you 10% cheaper. Insurance would be handy in case you stick the Gitzo in someones eye, etc while concentrating on the bride. Don't think you can insure enough for an irate bride with no photos.

One thing I discovered at Kelly's wedding is that it is hard work... easily $50-100 an hour work for the stress and difficulty (having to be constantly "on" to make sure you get the shot)

Totally agree, when I shoot a wedding it is non stop (no afternoon tea breaks) from about 12 noon till 8-9pm that night.

but it is fun work! You just have to remember to stop and take a drink of water occasionally

Personally, I would be wary using a photographer who is just turning up and shot - paid for their time and leaves you with a roll of film or a CD. Feels a bit "all care and no responsibility". Photographers who are looking at reprints contributing to their bottom line are backing their ability in my opinion.

I used to cart with me 2 Bronicas ETRS, 1 Hasselblad ELM, 1 Yashicamat TLR, 2 Metz 60 CT1, 4x 220 film backs and there was still times when I had to resort to ringing the boss and ask him to bring equipment to me due to breakdowns.

I'm not saying I would offer that in a package... just seemed like a way to simplify the question and remove overheads to simplify the Q to "how much are you worth"

I asked this as when I was doing some packing up after the ceremony on the weekend a guy came up and asked how much would I charge to shoot his wedding (which was in the same place) in two weeks time (thats two gigs I have lost because I am in NZ!) and I honestly have no Idea if the situation arises again what to answer..

I would definitely tell the couple, that even though my conduct would be professional, I do not live off photography, and they would get a great deal from me but with some added risk...

It might never happen again (a offer to shoot a wedding) but I want to think about what to do if it does

phillipb wrote:I used to cart with me 2 Bronicas ETRS, 1 Hasselblad ELM, 1 Yashicamat TLR, 2 Metz 60 CT1, 4x 220 film backs and there was still times when I had to resort to ringing the boss and ask him to bring equipment to me due to breakdowns.

see, that is just a different kettle of fish I am refering to...

An ABN and registering for GST can be two different things. The 50k you speak of is only in relation to registering for GST.

Back up camera body is essential. and you have to be comfortable in using it.

For just a rough price and your first wedding I would approach it just as you have said. I would charge anywhere between $300 to $600 for a first wedding depending on how confident you feel as to giving them value. That would be for 80 - 100 prints.

I would recommend that you also prepare a shoot list so you know what images you are going to take and when. This is extremely handy for a first wedding as the bride and groom will look to you to direct them the whole day.

Yes... I had lots of ideas on saturday...

Ie asking the B&G how intensive do they want the photography to be, ie how well photographed at the risk of getting in the way of guests (somewhere in between)

I worked from a limited shoot list on the weekend... I asked Kelly what photos do you want that you dont think the "pro" can get... she gave me a list of family she really wanted photos with and little things that she wanted but did not want the pro to get as it would start costing more money...

I got them all, and IMHO got them well (as the shots on the shoot list I made sure I got them well)

I will be registering a Business name after NZ (is that a state thing or commonwealth?) but if I can avoid charging GST I will.. 50K a year is MORE than enough for me! (mmmm shopping!)

little clarification the $50k is only turnover not profit. depending on your mark up, profit may be ....say .... 50% of that.

To register a business name you just need to see the Department of Fair Trading

25K would still make me a very happy man...

25K=New body (backup) + new L plate
70-200VR
sb800
85/1.4
28/1.4
+ lots of change

Thats about 1 wedding per weekend there though

I know... I was just pointing out that I would never need to charge GST

I was just reading up on ABN's..
Looks like if it is just a hobby you dont need one... what a strange description!
http://help.abr.gov.au/content.asp?doc= ... /16985.htm

MHD wrote:Looks like if it is just a hobby you dont need one

But the money you earn will be considered to be income under the Income Tax Act, so be prepared to pay Honest John a proportion of what you earn.

OTOH ...

If your better half doesn't have a fulltime job, consider employing her to do all of your PP and admin work.

Consider ...

Income from weddings - $25K
Depreciation on cameras, flashguns, computers $2K
Expenses - Fuel, Electricity, CDs, Internet costs, etc $1K ???
Printing of images etc $6K
Insurance $1K ??
Wages $15K

Taxable income from photography - $0

which would be added to any other income you're earning, while your better half would now have income of $15K which would be taxable at the current rates for that income. I think that's the lowest tax rate at the moment ...

If the numbers were munged so that you made a loss, then your effective salary - for tax purposes - is reduced by the amount of the loss that you incur from your business activities.

Where this sort of arrangement can work well is where you are earning a salary in a higher tax bracket, and your spouse is earning zero, or in a lower tax bracket. You can effectively shift your income (and reduce the tax you pay at the higher tax rate) to your partner, who pays tax at a lower rate.

But of course, talk to your tax accountant before doing anything.

MHD - here's something I came across today, that might be of help. 35 rules to become a pro.
http://www.brisbanephotography.com/foru ... .php?t=327


Highlights:
* Only amatuers explain the process to clients (to me, this means don't include your raw files).
* If you value your work, your work will be valued.
* Never justify your price (ties into the above point).
* If this is a hobby, treat it as a hobby. If this is a business or profession, treat it as such.
* Have fun and don't take yourself seriously. It all ends eventually.

Onyx wrote:* If you value your work, your work will be valued.

Many people do not consider inexpensive things to have value. If you are expensive (as a photographer), there is an assumption (to some degree) that you have earned the right to charge at that level and that others may be prepared to pay it.

Would you rather do one job for $3,000, or two jobs for $1,500?

If no-one wants you at your price, review then, but if you believe you can supply the goods, charge accordingly.

If you are planning to do do a crappy job, consider discounting

gstark wrote:You can effectively shift your income (and reduce the tax you pay at the higher tax rate) to your partner, who pays tax at a lower rate.

But of course, talk to your tax accountant before doing anything.

True in principle Gary, however you may well have to justify the income split and this is something the ATO have been getting quite ruthless about.
So, if your spouse is receiving income from the company make sure that it can be justified well or they will simply reject it in part or even in full.

MHD...

when doing your numbers, as Gary has spelt out, take into consideration ALL of your expenses.

Another model to consider is looking at declaring it all as a hobby...
income from hobbies is tax free.. , however you cannot reclaim any expenses either...

Most important... as Gary has said... cover these things off with a good accountant, there are a number of possible options that may work better or worst for you depending on your full situation.

Michael.

Mj wrote:Another model to consider is looking at declaring it all as a hobby...
income from hobbies is tax free.. , however you cannot reclaim any expenses either...

Most important... as Gary has said... cover these things off with a good accountant, there are a number of possible options that may work better or worst for you depending on your full situation.

If you're going to be doing this every other week - or even more frequently - and earning money from it, how likely is the tax department going to be to accept that it's only a hobby?

There's a lot of factors to consider ...

if this ends up taking more than one weekend a month then I probably will not do it...

I want to do some of my own shooting too...

and I have a PhD to complete...

No... I think I will end up registering a company (about $300) as that will let me use some webpages to sell photos (forgot the name right now) and if I get the chance I will do it fairly cheap and give them a nice product at the end..

But giving the customer the knowledge that I am not a proffesional... Just a ameture who gets nice results and who is looking for a way to feed he addiction

Thanks all for the advice and thoughts...

Just a ameture who gets nice results and who is looking for a way to feed he addiction

And sure, it's not my faults, sorry MHD!

This is a great thread guys - sorry I wasn't here to participate at the time but I just got back from a family portrait shoot on Coogee Beach and the red carpet movie premiere of the Wesley Snipes (he wasn't there) new movie Blade Trinity..a night of PP ahead of me! I'm LOVING this new found love and addiction..this week end I'm shooting a wedding in Canberra, a little aprehensive but I have the D70 and some great training from one of our forum legends Jordanp! Thanx D70members..this forum, is awesome!


Geoff.

Birddog114 wrote:

Just a ameture who gets nice results and who is looking for a way to feed he addiction

And sure, it's not my faults, sorry MHD!

The junkie does not blame the dealer for his adiction...

He blames the sweet sweet drug of creating art:

MHD
How many weddings have you done before?
If none...then charge $250 for shooting 150 JPG's and give them a DVD. Printing is up to them from a colour lab and they get to keep the copyright.

If you have shot a few weddings then charge $500 and provide the prints. Shoot RAW and do some post processing.

Bottom line is...make enough money to buy yourself a new bit of gear...even if its only 2 x 1 GB flash cards.