DSLRUsers.com

Hi Everyone

Here is one for your next trivia night quiz.

Came across this neat article today.

According to the latest issue of Digital Photographer, Canon released around 100 new consumer products during 2004. That works out to be around two new products each week.

Apparently Canon invested 8.2% of its total global revenue into R & D. That's apparently close to three billion Aussie dollars.

Mind boggling

I would imagine Nikon probably invests more or less the same revenue percentage in R & D as well, although the product range for Nikon, is as far as I know, smaller than Canon's.

I just wish the Nikon D70 would turn itself off after say half an hour of inactivity and wish that it wouldn't default to nearest neighbour in the focussing scheme of things. Also wish my cup of tea wouldn't go cold while typing out these posts

Have a good trip MHD and a merry Christmas and New Year too

Graham

Hey Bago,
We missed you! you entered NSW territory but did not refuel and keep on the track heading South to meet us at the Xmas dinner!
Dargan rang you today at the office and he got your message:"Gone fishing"
So he may PM or email you later.

Hi Birdy
Was unable to venture further south. Sorry
Would have loved to attend your fabulous Christmas party - maybe next year?
Dargan rang a little late
Looking forward to your PM or email Dargan
Tomorrow I start working on that little list of jobs written down by the head of the household. I'll turn the jobs listing note upside down and start from the top
Cheers
Graham

To think with all their R&D they would have come up with better things. All their so called "new" products are nothing more than a rehash of the old, but named differently and perhaps coloured differently to differentiate.

eg. A70 to A75 compact digicam. The exact same features, only the latter has the addition of a print/share button.
IXUS 400 to 430 - exact same features, only an additional direct print button. And now the IXUS 40 - with Digic II processor instead of Digic I. Textbook case of clever marketing.

In the global electronics market, Canon's closest competitor is Sony. Canon has always been number two to Sony in compact digital cameras segment. Sony even has their own proprietary format of flash memory (MemoryStick, MS Pro) what has Canon done in comparison? Sony does not release new models as aggressively as Canon - and yet they consistently outsell them.

In the field of inkjet printers, Epson is still number 1 for output quality and longevity. Still favoured by more amateur photographers than the red brand. Whatever happened to all Canon's brand consistent marketing campaign?

In the field of DSLR, Nikon introduced the D1 in 1999. It took the red brand two and a half years to release their first competitive model. At that time, Nikon's two newly released replacement models, the D1H and D1X, had already been out for six months prior!
Or what about the technology for shifting optical elements to counter shakes in handholding - Nikon invented VR. Canon copied the technology two years later and cleverly saturated the market that now everybody mistakenly believes it was they who invented IS and Nikon are playing catch up.

And this current day - what significant improvements they're bringing to market in their new flagship, 1Ds mk2 - how was it an improvement over last year's model? Increase in megapixels, increase in buffer size, also beginning support for wireless data transmission - a technology the flagship Nikon model has had for the past 18 months. With the D2X brings the introduction of multiple exposure capability for the first time in a digital and a specialised shooting mode with sensor crop that allows higher speed continuous shooting.

For a company that boasts big spending on R&D, their engineers are either asleep or lazy. Yes they are an impressive sized company with a huge marketing budgetin ensuring larger market share, but from a technology and engineering standpoint, what innovations have they brought to market? Auto focusing - no. TTL metering - no. Multi-segment exposure metering? Wireless flash system? Ah yes... if I'm not mistaken, it WAS Canon that brought out the first radio based communication for wireless flash use. However if it was any good, then why did they revert to copying Nikon's CLS in their latest E-TTL2 flash system?

I'm trying not to be a troll, honest.

bago100 wrote:I just wish the Nikon D70 would turn itself off after say half an hour of inactivity and wish that it wouldn't default to nearest neighbour in the focussing scheme of things.

Is the first a problem for you? Mine has been left on for days, with no ill effects. In standby mode the camera uses very little juice.

The second can be changed by modifying one of your menu settings. For me it was one of the first things to go. It's simply not a problem - I hardly use any of the default settings.

Onyx

Thanks for the brief but informative business analysis. Marketing based companies annoy me and many Nikon owners would intuitively agree with your comments.

Bago

I have sent an email to your primus account. look there and give me a ring about arranging a meet. Also make sure you read the Xmas club report I posted, admittedly a bit late, its 1.30am now so I had better close down.

Onyx,

Those are some interesting comments. Admittedly I don't know too much about the R+D of the major companies. I would like to see you go up head to head with a Canon afficianado and witness you two duke it out. I would admit that, though they are for the most part a quality product, it seems like they are releasing a new model every couple days.

I read that the 300d and the 10d were essentially the same camera, with software in the 300d to dumb it down (apparently there are patches out there to get the enhanced performance). This being the case it would be very economical to constantly upgrade. The foundation for a better camera is already there, you phase one camera out while maintaining a premium price on the new model that required nothing new as far as research. Could this be? To Hell if I know it's a thought.

Well, Canon inytroduced a new, significantly upgraded model of the 300D over the last couple of months. I've seen it here in the stores in Sydknee two.

Yep, as with all significant upgrades they ...


changed the colour of the case!

Hurry, hurry, hurry ... step right up.

Get your new, improved, black bodied 300D now, while stocks last.

Just don't hook it up to the ECG - it's still brain dead.

When I was considering buying the 300D (before I saw the light and went for the d70... thankfully), I read with great interest that the 300D apparently had the same or similar capabilities to the 10D but the chip was hobbled to ensure the relevant cost/feature structure remained intact.

This did not impress me. I also saw a considerable number of sites where you could download a patch to unhobble the 300D, although presumably at the expense of your warranty.

Then I started reading about the d70......

Think I'll stay out of this Canon bashing thread. The only question I have is, when was the D2x announced and show me someone who owns one?

petal666 wrote:Think I'll stay out of this Canon bashing thread. The only question I have is, when was the D2x announced and show me someone who owns one?

May I rephrase your question ever so slightly?

The only question I have is, when was the 20D announced and show me someone who owns one?

gstark wrote:The only question I have is, when was the 20D announced and show me someone who owns one?

Amfibius on OCAU has one, traded in his 10D I believe. I think at least one other OCAUer has a 20D too.

dooda wrote:Onyx,

Those are some interesting comments. Admittedly I don't know too much about the R+D of the major companies. I would like to see you go up head to head with a Canon afficianado and witness you two duke it out.

Nup, I've expended all my ammunition above. I have nothing further to say...

I woun't bash Canon my first SLR was a Canon got it in 1975 at sea to shot the varrious ports of call.
My first digital was an S50 got for my better half and we get some good shots from it
So when I started thinking a dSLR it was no a "no brainer" the dRebel. The D70 was not even shipping yet and the only close in my price range was a Sigma S9.
Then I started to do research and read the reviews. I was not conserned about the "dumb down". I'm an engineer it is common to have the same chip in in different devices and only enable functionality when you pay it .You just have to look at a software development project to see how much they cost. At the same time you want to get as many bodies on the street so you disable some functionality to offer your product to a wider range of customers.
What made me wait:
I hated the feel and look of the rebel
In the time between the 10D and the rebel there where advances in technology that would normaly be incorporated in a new product even if a cheaper one Canon did not seem to do that
Nikon on the other hand seemed to say OK it is not the D100 so no MLU no vertical grip BUT there are thing we can do better now so lets do it
And I really hate that silly silver body
So I am the very happy owner of a D70 and Nikon will most likely have me for life. I do not have that much glass yet but I shudder at haveing to repalce it
Has anyone ever made a converter so if you change brands you can save your glass technically it should be doable is it a copyrite thing not that I plan on switching back

nearest neighbour focussing? what kinda whacko setting are you using man! choose your AF point manually !

First of all, I'm not knocking Canon; I have a lot of respect for their cameras, which are fine tools and are capable of making excellent photographs.

I happen to disagree with the marketing led approach that Canon seem to take however; I view marketers as evil, cynical peopl who treat customers (or prospects) with contempt. They're like politicians, really.

The dumbing down of the 300D to bring it to market is exactly the sort of cynicism I despise. Clearly, the 10D could have been brought to market for the cost of the 300D. Eventually. Marketing (greed) prevented it.

By way of contrast, Nikon is an engineering led company, and generally speaking comes up with sound engineering and design concepts. Their lens mount is a prime example of this - I have cameras that are 15+ years old, and they accept pretty well all of the newest lenses, with their newest features, inlcuding features that I doubt were even contemplated 15 years ago.

That tells me something about Nikon's engineering, and it's all good.

So: Canon is good, but I believe that Nikon just happens to be better.

goodrich62 wrote:Has anyone ever made a converter so if you change brands you can save your glass technically it should be doable is it a copyrite thing not that I plan on switching back

It's sometimes doable, but not as easy as you might think. Apart from the physical characteristics of the lens mount (diameter, placement of bayonet nodes, etc) there are other factors to be considered too, such as the distance between the mount face and the focal plane. Consider that if the body of camera A is deeper than the body of camera B, then this distance will be greater in Camera A, and any lens from camera B would need to be countersunk into body A in order for those lenses to achieve their designed focal range.

Presuming that the relative diameters of the lens mounts even permits this countersinking to occur, you may now be faced with the situation whereby the countersinking - the deeper mounting of the lenses within Camera A's body - may now interfere with the mechanical operations that the body needs to undertake, like pulling the mirror up and out of the way.

That's just for starters, but it perhaps gives you a bit of an appreciation for some of the issues that need to be addressed.

And for what it is worth, we have a Canon Epoca, an exceptional film camera, which has served us extremely well over a number of years and on several overseas trips. I have had many complimentary remarks on the quality of the photos produced.

Of course, we all know now that it was because I was the photographer, but at the time, the camera received some excellent reviews

Interesting discussion there gentlemen

The reason why I wrote the original piece was to illustrate how Canon are bringing a huge number of products to market and that they spend a significant amount of revenue on R & D.

Extrapolating Canon's success, my perception of Australia's spending (Govt and private) on R & D, is that we spend very little and the Government seems to reduce R & D budgets every year.

Are we the clever country? or will we be a follower, while, like it or not, profitable companies like Canon and Nikon prosper because they invest heavily in their business and because their government (Japan) encourages them to do so.

If Australia was to make a great digital camera, what would we call it?

Cheers

Graham

Mate, now you tell us! When the Canon v Nikon war is nearly over

Hi Phil



hehe Well put. No it's not a war. Each company is competing for our photographic dollars and putting out products to attract different market segments.

I am indifferent to Cannon and Nikon brands, but Onyx and Gary, as evidenced by their excellent posts, are well and truely on the Nikon side. Their recall of facts is astounding and having learnt that, I'm going to avoid arguing with those two!

I got pushed in to this D70 crowd and am loving every minute of it.

But I think when someone comes across something that is interesting, they should post it here on the forum to raise awareness and engender healthy debate. We all learn from this.

Cheers and thanks

Graham

Couldn't agree more.
At least we can be civilised in this forum in our discussions. The other day I went across to dpreview after a long absense and the very first thread I read, some idiot was raving on about people being too nice to each other and sick of people complementing lowsy photos just to be nice.
I sure hope he doesn't find out about this forum.

phillipb wrote: The other day I went across to dpreview after a long absense and the very first thread I read, some idiot was raving on about people being too nice to each other and sick of people complementing lowsy photos just to be nice.

Actually, I hope that that never happens here either.

I was just reading a post by Killakoala in another thread here. and Steve made the point that others here will critique the images that we post, criticising with the goal being to help improve everyones' skills and picture taking abilities.

As you've said, we're civilised here; there's nothing at all wrong with vigourous debate, stating one's opinion, or the quoting of facts. But we're basically sticking to the point, and maintaining the focus on the subjects, rather than flaming individuals. That's where we're doing it right, I think.

Graham,

Some interesting points here.

bago100 wrote:Extrapolating Canon's success, my perception of Australia's spending (Govt and private) on R & D, is that we spend very little and the Government seems to reduce R & D budgets every year.

Are we the clever country? or will we be a follower, while, like it or not, profitable companies like Canon and Nikon prosper because they invest heavily in their business and because their government (Japan) encourages them to do so.

One of my pet peeves is how our government, for lack of a better word, refuses to encourage intellectual development here. The rot, sadly, starts at the very top, with honest Johnny, the country's #1 cricket fan, doing everything he can to stimulate the interests of the masses in mass sports.

How much was pledged in the last election campaign to improve sporting centres? How much has been spent in the last, say, 10 years, on sporting facilitiies.

What about improving university facilities: how much was pledged in the last election campaign? How much over the last 10 years?

Let's look at the nomination of Australian of the year: how many nominees come from fields of intellectual or artisitic endeavour, as compared with sport or pop culture fields? Nicole, Delta, etc is not from the field of artistic endeavour, btw.

Let's look at the local tv news shows: despite what their editors decree, nothing that Delta does is news, IMHO.

Tourism, of course, brings in big bucks; this government, left to its own devices, would happily see this country's population relegated to consist solely of taxi drivers, waiters, and chefs.

And whatever you do, don't think. It'll be illegal before too long.

First
I hope no one thought did my "I wount bash Canon" was a slam because I thought any of the previouse did. It's just that I didn't want to precieved as a slamer. Maybe I still have a hangover from too much time in other forums
I agree Nikon seems to be Engineer diven Canon marketing I'm an engineer I have a lovely D70

Second:

Are we the clever country? or will we be a follower, while, like it or not, profitable companies like Canon and Nikon prosper because they invest heavily in their business and because their government (Japan) encourages them to do so.

You Blokes are not alone we in the US exported our manufacturing in the 80's and 90's for cheap labor. In the 2000's we are exporting are brains. From programming and tech support to R&D we are sending it all over seas.
From the Wright brothers in their Bicycle shope to Mister H and Mister P in a garage the name of the game was inovation. Where is the next great step going to come from? Not the US .
Goverment R&D that is a laugh my taxes are not going to social programes to feed and educate they are also not funding Stem cell research, a cure for AIDS, alternate fuel or a host of other technical issues. If it does not help build a better way to kill people we as a people(Government) don't seem to care
As an exmilitary man I know the need for a strong armed forces but we also have to move foward. If it means a couple of more duckets from my pay I'll live with it .
I'll get off the soap box now and have a cool down Beer Anyone?:

First
I hope no one thought did my "I wount bash Canon" was a slam because I thought any of the previouse did. It's just that I didn't want to precieved as a slamer. Maybe I still have a hangover from too much time in other forums
I agree Nikon seems to be Engineer diven Canon marketing I'm an engineer I have a lovely D70

Second:

Are we the clever country? or will we be a follower, while, like it or not, profitable companies like Canon and Nikon prosper because they invest heavily in their business and because their government (Japan) encourages them to do so.

You Blokes are not alone we in the US exported our manufacturing in the 80's and 90's for cheap labor. In the 2000's we are exporting are brains. From programming and tech support to R&D we are sending it all over seas.
From the Wright brothers in their Bicycle shope to Mister H and Mister P in a garage the name of the game was inovation. Where is the next great step going to come from? Not the US .
Goverment R&D that is a laugh my taxes are not going to social programes to feed and educate they are also not funding Stem cell research, a cure for AIDS, alternate fuel or a host of other technical issues. If it does not help build a better way to kill people we as a people(Government) don't seem to care
As an exmilitary man I know the need for a strong armed forces but we also have to move foward. If it means a couple of more duckets from my pay I'll live with it .
I'll get off the soap box now and have a cool down Beer Anyone?: