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So yesterday afternoon I had finnished my 2nd folio shoot in the japenese gardens I was packing up my gear with the girls in a little shelter thing, I saw this old guy wondering around with a pretend SLR with a lens hood and all that.

Anyway the two girls who are close friends of mine noticed him skulking around our field of vision from where we were sitting and told me about it and how it was wierd and such.
Then the guy stands out in the open about 20 meters away pointing his camera at the girls and probly me taking photo's

Candid photos are nice but when you're photographing someone else like that I think it's realy creepy and I was pretty annoyed at this guy for doing it.

I wouldn't of had any problems if he had of come and asked us if he could but to stand that far away and take photo's is pretty rude.

your thoughts?

Maybe you could have told him he was breaching your copyright

I could have done that.... But that may have given him a chance to get more candid closeups.

Tough one Michael - I honestly can't say what I would have done....
probably would have gritted my teeth and walked away.
Rel

sorry - that was absolutely no use at all was it?

It's a bit of a grey area in this instance. Was the garden a private garden or public space? If it's public space, then yourself and the models are fair game.

Also what do you mean with a pretend SLR? If it's a pretend SLR, surely he was only pretending to take pics then?

I'm all for public photography, but if you felt uncomfortable or violated by the man's actions you could have approached him about it.

Personally I like taking urban shots and yes this involves catching people out in public as well. However there are sometimes where the situation could prove uncomfortable for both myself and the people in the pic so I wait until they're out of the scene or I don't take the pic at all. If I had taken a pic of someone and they were uncomfortable with it and approached me about it, I'd gladly delete the image.

Just my 2c for now.

Hey guys

I'm also all for public photography but this hiding and stuff was kinda creepy so yeh it just kind of annoyed me and I wanted to vent.

Also what I meant by pretend SLR is one of those sony things with the lens hoods that you can't actually change the lenses on.

One thing I forgot to point out was that the girls with the dresses were having a bit of trouble with the wind late in the afternoon keeping thier dresses/skirts down, I know it seems funny but it was also a little un nerving for them having that guy around in that kind of situation.

I like candid photo's just the legitimate less creepy kind I mean no offence to anyone in here that may enjoy taking candids.

No offense taken Michael You do have the right to vent as well as approach the "creepy" guy as well and question his actions (obviously don't go and sucker punch him).

Michael
It's a bet that if you felt uncomfortable then approaching him and asking him what he's taking photo's of would have settled it one way or another. On the other hand it was probably one of our more obscure forum members first day out in public with a camera and feeling very self conscious.

The one lucky thing is that I was packing up to leave so I didn't bother doing anything about it.

I certainly hope it wasn't the guy the police were chasing a few days earlier for following a young girl and taking photos of her.....

Dont forget Michaels age, he's only 19.. .. so fronting up to "creepy" people might not always be a wise choice.. but understandable in some circumstances

Tim

Ahh thanks for clearing that up Zeeke Michael, if you are ever in the situation again, approach teh person with a tripod That ought to give you a bit of a confidence boost

I don't have a problem with telling people that are being losers or just generally unfair where to go, but in this case I was just happy to pack up walk to the car and whinge about it in here.

Michael wrote:....I was just happy to pack up walk to the car and whinge about it in here.

You mean like your sig?

Yeh something like that, there's no place like home.

Michael, the way you felt on this occasion mirrors the emotions of the population against photographers, esp candid photogs. How many times have we had reports/discussions here, in the media and elsewhere of fellow photogs being harassed by security guards or police because someone reported a 'creepy guy' with a camera?!

TBH, I'm surprised you weren't more sympathetic to his plight, given that you seem to enjoy the pursuit of photography yourself.

In your orig. post, you said the guy stood out in the open some distance away and pointed his camera in your direction. Perhaps this was his way of showing he had nothing to hide and to announce his presence by remaining visible. If he indeed was as 'creepy' as you seem to imply (and implying he might have been a criminal, etc), he would have gotten his shots without you knowing he was ever there.

It screams of hypocracy to me, what you do is 'legitimate', and what 'he' does is 'creepy', even though it's exactly the same thing.

In my lifes experience if someone looks creepy, or you get a gut feeling that something is not right, or the hairs on the back of your neck begin to bristle....then you are right to be concerned. That's how I stay alive.

Onyx Hypocracy or not, I felt what he was doing and the way he was going about it he could have handled with a tad more class.....

I said I wasn't overly creeped out by it, the girls were creeped out by it more so than I.

Also If I wanted to imply that he was a criminal I would have said "bet he is" rather than I hope he isn't the guy that the police were chasing.

and later on down the page I explained perhaps why The girls thought this guy was not your average camera toting person but a more creepy person maybe you forgot to read that.

Perhaps you need to be in the situation to understand how it is on the otherside?

Difficult situation as you clearly felt uncomfortable Michael, or you could look at it the other way you were the most interesting things in the park so he chose to shoot you.

Like Chi, I feel there is some hypocrisy here, we mostly expect the right to shoot what we want, but don't exactly feel others should do the same. We all look different on the forum, but all assume that to others we look "normal" not creepy. The old guys might think that the young photog looks close to a girls age and trying to pick up, the young guys might think the old photog looks like an old pervert. It is all relative to where one is standing (talking in general, not specifically this case).

All freedoms have a price, this is one of them, as has been said before on this forum by a wiser head than mine, we should cherish the freedoms we do have.

Michael, just a side question, you said it was a folio shoot, was there any chance the photographer thought he had stumbled on to a professional shoot (no matter how far down the totem pole) and just wanted to capture the moment? The same way many of our members would take Megan Gale or Elle Macpherson's image if we stumbled upon a photo shoot at the Opera House with them.

Glen wrote:Like Chi, I feel there is some hypocrisy here, we mostly expect the right to shoot what we want, but don't exactly feel others should do the same. We all look different on the forum, but all assume that to others we look "normal" not creepy. The old guys might think that the young photog looks close to a girls age and trying to pick up, the young guys might think the old photog looks like an old pervert. It is all relative to where one is standing (talking in general, not specifically this case).

I can't help feel that you may have also missed the point. There's a huge difference between someone openly taking snaps, and someone skulking around in the bushes hoping to get a naughty shot. This, to me, also differentiates between a paparazzi photog doing his job, and those that are clearly stalkers - it's all in the approach, open vs hidden.

If the guy was merely taking a shot of an interesting girl than that's cool but if the guy was clearly hanging around for a period of time trying to get a specific shot then that's no different to a guy hanging around an elevator with his camera in hand waiting for the "right" shot.

"Then the guy stands out in the open about 20 meters away pointing his camera at the girls and probly me taking photo's "


Paul, that was the line in the first post which lead me to believe they guy wasn't skulking in the bushes. I wasn't there but how it is written looks pretty open.

The Lynx hosties were outside Channel 10 in the city recently. One of our members took photos, but I don't think that was unusual or wrong. This could be a case like the Opera House example I used above.

We all alllow our own prejudices to affect us, in this case it was claimed he had a "pretend" dslr. In your case it you mentioned "time" as what made him suspicous. You can see how easy it is for us all to label someone as "creepy", but more worryingly, how anyone can find a derogative way to label anyone of us as a xxxxxx photographer. (Substitute old, creepy, suss & young, middle eastern even big lensed for xxx)

Either way It's not like im pressing charges or accusing anyone of anything I just wanted to vent.

Oh as for the "pretend" SLR I didn't know what it was but it had a lens hood and thats the first way I could think of describing it, It's not like I regard my D70 to be the be all and end all.

Anyway I think this has been blown out or proportion just a tad. Sorry everyone...

Sorry Michael, not trying to make any examples with your post, just showing how easy it is for us all to be labelled as suspect photographers not to be trusted. It's already happening on the beaches and also with the Surf Lifesaving Assoc nippers.

I could buy a t-shirt with "pervert" on the front, but people might think it is a joke t-shirt, seems all I need to do is carry a camera and people know it is true

I am with the majority here. As someone who shoots a lot of candid shots (none demeaning to the subject), I do find it a pain having to justify shooting folk without their permission. In fact, I don't justify it any more!

Its a tad precious for a photographer to complain about another photographer's way of shooting.

Cheers
Sheila

Well I guess thats why we all have opinions.

I too have photographed people candidly without them knowing, most likely because they were oblivious to my presence rather than me hiding behind a bush. (NOTE: I was not hiding behind a bush)

Fortunately i am unlikely to be on the receiveing end of a candid shot as i am not an attractive subject (other than at mini-meets with you lot photographing anything and everything in sight) so i will probably never have to confront a wannabe papparazi/pervert photographer.

However i have confronted perverts at the beach, not because they were checking me out though, i was protecting others. I won. When confronted, if they are doing the wrong/unethical thing they back down quickly and piss off.

I was not hiding behind a bush

but hiding IN a bush?????? LOL

blacknstormy wrote:

I was not hiding behind a bush

but hiding IN a bush?????? LOL

Maybe it was more like MattK's Avatar, where he 'was' the bush!

Another time, some work collegues and I visited HMAS Watson on South Head (Sydney) which (sort of) overlooks a nudist beach and we could see all the perverts lined up and hiding in the bushes below us. I will neither confirm nor deny the use of rocks and gravel being thrown at them. I don't remember any of them having cameras though.

Very interesting reading others coments on this, Micheal I think you were justified in having those feelings as were those of the girls concerned.

It seems you handled it in a mature and correct way, you did not create a scene or confront him that could have turn ugly.

Others are allowed to have their own opinion ,as shown.

It seems that he was not "hiding" what he was doing, but you all still seemed uncomftable.This is normal.

I feel somewhat uncomftable taking candids at such a piblic place,others do not.. Maybe people dont have to justify shooting without permission, this is fine, but also theres no point complaining if someone does take offence and you end up getting chased up the street.

I think you did the right thing and here is a good place to get this off your chest and I am happy to here you r concerns.

MATT

Killakoala wrote::)

Another time, some work collegues and I visited HMAS Watson on South Head (Sydney) which (sort of) overlooks a nudist beach and we could see all the perverts lined up and hiding in the bushes below us. I will neither confirm nor deny the use of rocks and gravel being thrown at them. I don't remember any of them having cameras though.

Having stayed in those barracks in the past and walked past the beach in question, I don't remember seeing any sunbathers under the age of 50 there. What were all the pervs looking at!!

Re this topic which is a bit all over the place.. being photographers, I think we tend to be more perceptive than most people of whether someone is behaving in a suspect manner. I think it IS fair to judge another photographer (with or without DSLR) if they pass all personal criteria for being a cretin.

Killakoala wrote::)

Another time, some work collegues and I visited HMAS Watson on South Head (Sydney) which (sort of) overlooks a nudist beach and we could see all the perverts lined up and hiding in the bushes below us. I will neither confirm nor deny the use of rocks and gravel being thrown at them. I don't remember any of them having cameras though.

Many years ago I was a crew member on the Westpac rescue helicopter. One day we picked up a floating rock fisherman off South Head and dropped him off at Lady Jayne. Lots of laughs that day

Without buying into the debate over the guy's motivation, I think I would have pulled out my camera, attached my biggest, bulkiest lens so he couldn't miss the point and aimed it at him. See how he reacts...

Surely that's fair?

Matt. K wrote:In my lifes experience if someone looks creepy, or you get a gut feeling that something is not right, or the hairs on the back of your neck begin to bristle....then you are right to be concerned. That's how I stay alive.

Here here to that and what skippy just said just turn your camera onto him and see what happens either that or attempt to approach and discuss photography, If he has a guilty conscience he will not hang round. if he stays then he is probably OK.

Whatever trust your gut instincts they will usually get you through.

A female friend who was want to bathe unclad at a southern beach with a few friends was slightly disturbed to find a gentleman in the dunes watching them and, how shall we say, paying undue physical attention to his male appendage.

They just walked over together and told him " If it's OK for you to watch us, we want to watch you" and sat down to watch what he was doing.

He hurried from the beach never to be seen again

Dug, that is such a great riposte

My friend is quite a woman! I would not want to cross her.