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Posted: **Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:40 pm**

For Wendell, who does shoot fashion in France, and others, the third last line of this article is telling "In France, picture rights belong to the designers." The third last paragraph is the most interesting for photographers.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/fashion/oodl ... 33922.html

Posted: **Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:57 pm**

France also has some very strict privacy rules so taking photos of people is not allowed without the person's consent, unlike Australia, as was discussed a few days ago. See this link:
http://www.dslrusers.net/viewtopic.php?t=14622

See the section on France in the article at 4020 linked in the article above.

Not sure if this is somewhat related or not.

Cheers,

André

Posted: **Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:00 pm**

interesting article glen

regarding picture rights that's strange because at Fashion Week events in Australia i had to sign a contract stipulating that i could not sell the images taken at fashion week to the designers for their commercial use, images belonged to the fashion media and were to be distributed.

Also interesting i shot a printemps collection show asked the security if i could they said yes, but when i started taking pictures the manager stopped me abruptly and said it was absolutely forbidden to take images on a pro camera, which was fine with me even though i explained just taking pictures for myself not for any commercial purpose, i negotiated with her but in the end i was forced to delete all images.
I managed the next day to shoot the Galleries La Fayette collection show, they had no problem.

Glen is this the bit you are referring to?

"I'm the president of Saks Fifth Avenue and no, I don't have my invitation with me," barked one guest, after being manhandled by security. Saks Fifth Avenue, an internet retailer, got in — unlike 50 people who turned up because Christian Dior had sent them standing-room invitations.'

Got to be lucky sometimes alot of things change at the last minute. At Loreal fashion week i had to negotiate my way in even though i was acredited prior to the event and expected to shoot the shows.

Posted: **Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:16 pm**

Just scratched France off my 'To visit' list. Good thing Cartier-Bresson has retired. He wouldn't make it now. The land of the artist, the intellectual and the poet...the land of love...is now the land of "Non! Non!"

Posted: **Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:24 pm**

oh

you mean this para

'She might just as easily have been talking about Don Ashby, Marcio Madeira and Olivier Claisse - three runway photographers who were jailed for two days in 2003 after French authorities charged them with copyright violation, following the publication on their own website of their own images of a Chanel show. In France, picture rights belong to the designers.'

i guess i better take off the images of the galleries la fayette show from my website!

although fashion week event in Paris is pretty darn exclusive i think those copyright laws are aimed towards that event exclusively

Posted: **Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:25 pm**

wendellt wrote:but in the end i was forced to delete all images.

I hope that you later recovered them.

Posted: **Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:28 pm**

gstark wrote:
wendellt wrote:but in the end i was forced to delete all images.

I hope that you later recovered them.

no didn't bother i know the french, if i had and put them on my website they would of found out and done something about it

also was just happy to experience runway format in paris kind of like a dream come true, if i got away with images that would have been a bonus

Posted: **Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:29 pm**

gstark
Outstanding remark. You are as sharp as a tack!

Posted: **Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:50 pm**

wendellt wrote:
gstark wrote:
wendellt wrote:but in the end i was forced to delete all images.

I hope that you later recovered them.

no didn't bother i know the french, if i had and put them on my website they would of found out and done something about it

If they found out about it, that would have been down to yourself.

There's very little chance that, unless you specifically promoted the shots for what they were, they would have known.

Further: you're Australian based: do you think they're going to be chasing you down over here?

And even if they did, what would they do? Ask you to take the images down? Big deal. If they ask, you comply.

Posted: **Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:52 pm**

Wendell, it was the second remark and knowing you had done the Galleries La Fayette show I assumed you might have had them on show somewhere

Posted: **Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:01 pm**

Gary

when the manager told me it was forbidden to take pics, she later said if i ever see these published anywhere she would get a lawyer on my ass - in so many words

the printemps show was a much bigger production than the other one i shot

So that's why i did not bother trying to recover them there was a point where she wanted the card itself but i negotiated and said we don't have to go down that far, i just assured her that the images had been deleted and that we should leave it at that.

Glen
i don't think there is any issues from images from the galleries la fayette show, residing on my website in low res they aren't used to promote anything other than the fact i was there, i think those legal issues mentioned in the article apply to the really high end shows at Paris fashion week.

Posted: **Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:07 pm**

gstark wrote:Further: you're Australian based: do you think they're going to be chasing you down over here?

No, but things are a bit different if you intend ever to go back to France (as no doubt Wendell does, and who can blame him? Paris is gorgeous).

Posted: **Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:16 pm**

wendellt wrote:when the manager told me it was forbidden to take pics, she later said if i ever see these published anywhere she would get a lawyer on my ass - in so many words

So, when you were advised that photography was not permited, you stopped. She thinks you deleted the images. FIne.

What's the problem? Do you believ that she has nothing better to do than chase you?

What's a French lawyer going to do?

So that's why i did not bother trying to recover them there was a point where she wanted the card itself

That's entirely out of her domain. It's your private property, and she can go to hell.

Posted: **Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:20 pm**

MCWB wrote:
gstark wrote:Further: you're Australian based: do you think they're going to be chasing you down over here?

No, but things are a bit different if you intend ever to go back to France (as no doubt Wendell does, and who can blame him? Paris is gorgeous).

This wuld be a private matter between Wendell and the show organisers. I doubt that any government is going to buy into that ....

And besides, entry and egress into EU is so simple these days; they barely check one's passport.

Again, if there were any issues, they would be solely because Wendell (or whomever) drew attention to the content of the website in an indiscreet manner.

I really do not see any issues here.

Posted: **Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:24 pm**

gstark wrote:
wendellt wrote:when the manager told me it was forbidden to take pics, she later said if i ever see these published anywhere she would get a lawyer on my ass - in so many words

So, when you were advised that photography was not permited, you stopped. She thinks you deleted the images. FIne.

What's the problem? Do you believ that she has nothing better to do than chase you?

What's a French lawyer going to do?

So that's why i did not bother trying to recover them there was a point where she wanted the card itself

That's entirely out of her domain. It's your private property, and she can go to hell.

thanks for the support

you knwo the frnech Gary when their serious they can be very intimidating at hte time i felt it necassary to oblidge or she would of called security

but i need to remind you i was inside hte printemps store and there was security so i think she had the right to ask for my card if there were rules about photography

the fault lies with the security guards who saw my pro camera and my intent to use it after asking them if i could they said yes, i guess they wern't informed as much or the lesson here is you need to get official permission prior to the show, just thought i shoudl try my luck at rocking up and that didn't work - that time.

Posted: **Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:33 pm**

wendellt wrote:
gstark wrote:
wendellt wrote:when the manager told me it was forbidden to take pics, she later said if i ever see these published anywhere she would get a lawyer on my ass - in so many words

So, when you were advised that photography was not permited, you stopped. She thinks you deleted the images. FIne.

What's the problem? Do you believ that she has nothing better to do than chase you?

What's a French lawyer going to do?

So that's why i did not bother trying to recover them there was a point where she wanted the card itself

It's not just France. The rules are inconsistent here also and normally staff don't know what they are talking about. Last night I attended a fashion show at a local shopping centre. I approached the information desk within the centre first to ask if the photography was allowed at the show. I was informed by two staff members in one categoric voice "No, it's not allowed". When I came to the actual show security did not stop me or a few other people taking photos. So my advice is always turn up and actually take your chances. Finding out before hand is almost always useless.

Alex

That's entirely out of her domain. It's your private property, and she can go to hell.

thanks for the support

you knwo the frnech Gary when their serious they can be very intimidating at hte time i felt it necassary to oblidge or she would of called security

but i need to remind you i was inside hte printemps store and there was security so i think she had the right to ask for my card if there were rules about photography

the fault lies with the security guards who saw my pro camera and my intent to use it after asking them if i could they said yes, i guess they wern't informed as much or the lesson here is you need to get official permission prior to the show, just thought i shoudl try my luck at rocking up and that didn't work - that time.

Posted: **Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:44 pm**

A huge thanks from me for the heads up on those shocking French laws, I'll keep them in mind should my wife and I ever visit. I've got about four models in France who'd love to do TFP shoots with me, and thankfully the rest of the models I'm lining up for an eventual tour are all outside France.

I've always avoided doing street photography due to the reaction so many people have to it these days. (as the people in the shot) Having this info now, I wont feel as shutter shy in public.

Had one big run-in with a drunk niteclub patron who is now scared to return to that club lest I give him a tight bollocking for his actions when he threatened to take my card because he thought I had a shot of him on it. (I didn't and then refused to show him the rest of the shots out of principle)

As a general rule, security are the last to know anything along the lines of who is authorised to enter or not. Having run security details for years, I know that often organisers dont bother to give comprehensive lists to doorstaff and guidelines like these are nearly never considered when briefing these staff.

Posted: **Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:56 am**

gstark wrote:
So that's why i did not bother trying to recover them there was a point where she wanted the card itself

That's entirely out of her domain. It's your private property, and she can go to hell.

Yeah, it's private property, I don't think she has the right to take it.

If she takes it then she'd need to pay your back for your card. :lol:

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Fashion Photography rules in France

Fashion Photography rules in France