Lighting advice

[PiroStitch]

G'day,

Just need a bit of advice to help me clear my head. Also I'm a noob when it comes to this area of photography. I've been thinking of getting some portable lighting but I can't decide whether to get continuous lighting or flash.

One of the reasons I've started to think about lighting is the "car" shoot. I won't necessarily be purchasing it just for that as I'd like to get into playing around with lighting as well. I was thinking of getting two lights with soft boxes.

Flash vs continuous// AFAIK, portable = using flashes with softboxes and wireless trigger (with D70). Unless there's such thing as a continuous portable light that runs on batteries or something. The downside to flash means I'd have to get another flash (SB600 or SB800) and my budget doesn't allow that.

Budget//
Of course I'm going to be like everyone else and try to get it as cheap as possible but not too cheap. Is it possible to get something around the $400 mark for two lights with softboxes?

Excuse my ignorance about this

I'll probably pop into Vanbar over the weekend to have a look and maybe try the other camera shops around Melbourne....unless somebody who's been there and done that before can advise of better "value-for-money" places which isn't too far from the city.

Thanks all Appreciate all the help I can get.

[Alex]

Thanks for asking this, Wayne. I've been having similar questions on my mind for a while. Looking forward to the replies.

Alex

[birddog114]

Another SB600 is under your nominated budget ($400.00)
And it's well within your wishes as wireless, flexibility, transportable and can be used in many areas.

So far in the past 19 months, I found lot of members on this forum wanted or purchased a second SB flash for their own creatively of lighting.

And Nikon CLS is working well in this area.

[Matt. K]

Even a pair of Pro tungsten lights can set you back 1000 bucks. Maybe a couple of cheap floodlights from Bunnings and an SB600 as recommended by Birddog would be the best way to go.

[Hudo]

Hi Wayne,

I have been there and done that (so to speak) with the cheap Bunnings lights to now owning a range of Mono Blocks, Tota lights, Refa Lights, 800W Red head with soft box, gels and more. Very little change for under $7~8K. I still have the bunnings lights as well. Your welcome to come play and borrow them if I'm not using thm on an indoor shoot. Just PM me.

Mark

[jerrysk8]

go on ebay and get some vivitar 285hv's or some sunpak 555's or 544's or some metz 45ct's or 45cl's. if you want bare bulb get some sunpak 120j's or lash out and get some quantum t2's. all these flashes are favoured amongst skateboard photographers as they are cheap, portable and have very high guide numbers and fast recycling times. then get some cheap radio slaves off ebay or buy some quantum radio slaves for better quality but not the price of pocket wizards. softboxes can be bought cheap off ebay or you could make them yourself or use an umbrella and just use cheap tripods for light stands. you can get a seriously decent setup for under $400

seriously photogs from every skateboard mag (and other sports like snowboard, bmx, inline) use any of the above flashes and pocket wizards and get excellent results.

im currently using 2x t2's, a 285hv, a L358 and pocket wizards and am loving it

[PiroStitch]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the advice

The only issue I have with using another flash (ie. SB600) is batteries. Then again, I could get a continuous power supply for the SBs... I can see where you are coming from though with using the flashes to fire wirelessly and on a tight budget

I have two Bunnings lights but my main concern is having harsh reflections from the lights especially on reflective surfaces such as metal, which is why I'm considering getting some studio lights with reflectors and/or softboxes.

An idea occured to me to get reflectors and combine that with the Bunnings lights, but I'd need to custom build the stand for it :S

I've checked out Vanbar, Dragon Image and another mob (i can't remember the name but have it at home).

I'll check out the stuff you've mentioned Jerry.

[wendellt]

the bunnings work lights are good that way you can actually use them as modelling lights
you see what you get then shoot to your hearts content
only problem of these things is control, they probably have a constant light output and power source, you may have to get a generator or something to power them

Now when using portable studio strobes they flash and you only see the result when you review the image, also portable strobes have slow recycling times so if you shoot action you need to cafrefully consider your shots
say 1 flash then 2 second recycling time, unless of course you buy a expensive battery pack with faster recycling

studio strobes costs hundreds those bunning work lights are much more cost effective

[jerrysk8]

you mentioned you wanted portable lighting, how are you going to power your continuous lights/bunnings lights on location assuming there's no power points nearby

[birddog114]

you mentioned you wanted portable lighting, how are you going to power your continuous lights/bunnings lights on location assuming there's no power points nearby

Solarcell is your friend

[gstark]

the bunnings work lights are good that way you can actually use them as modelling lights

Only if they're in the exact same location as your flash heads, and only if they're also going through the same shaping/diffusion as your flash heads.

But they'll still be useful if you want to bar-be-cue your models.

In all seriousness, if you want to use the worklights, then go ahead; they're great, but be aware of the heat issues, and no, they won't really work as modelling lights because they won't be occupying the same space and using the same modifiers as your flash heads would be using.

And yes, they will be quite portable as long as you're at a source that has a power supply available. A location shoot at the local park obviously won't work, but for a static subject shoot in mechanic's workshop they'll actiually be quite good.

If you have white walls and ceiling in the workshop, I'd probably look at four or five sets of worklights, all pointed towards the ceiling to give some good diffuse light.

Don't worry too much aabout modelling (or the lack of) when you're using flash. Chimp, chimp, chimp!

Check shadows for intensity (soft is usually better), angles, and depth. You're trying to obtain as even an exposure across the whole frame as possible. Use your histogram to judge exposure though, rather than what you're seeing as the image in the display.


Getting back to costs, as Thanh says, an SB600 is around 400, but you should also factor in some lightstands and shaping tools- soft boxes, brollies, etc - and of course the appropriate adaptors to let everything mount together. A stand and brolly set will cost about $100, or sub a mini softbox instead of a brolly for around the same cost.

Lightspheres are also very good.

Don't overlook some cheaper non-Nikon flash heads; there are some that are made especially for slave flash use, and they include an optical trigger. Just make sure that your camera's built in flash doesn't go off, because that will trip the optical units prior to you making your exposyre, and then you'll be wondering about why your images are all under exposed.

Remember too that all of these very portable flash head solutions - including the SB600 and 800 - are actually rather low power units in the grand scheme of things, and as you lose light through shaping, you need to compensate your exposure through your aperture.

THis may or may not be a bad thing, but it's certainly a point to keep in mind.

[PiroStitch]

Sorry I didn't elaborate a bit more when I said portable.

There will be hardly any times when I'll be at a location that doesn't have at least 1 powerpoint

[gstark]

you mentioned you wanted portable lighting, how are you going to power your continuous lights/bunnings lights on location assuming there's no power points nearby

Solarcell is your friend

I usually just plug into the nearest powered tree. That was neveran issue up in the state forests around Dungog, where, in the campng areas, most of the trees were fake and so powered.

[wendellt]

by modelling lights i meant

you can actually see what the lighting setup is like

you shoot what you see

opposed to using a strobe flash that you have to do several light tests for to obtain the lighting effect you want

when using a strobe you dont know how the light will look like untill you take the shot, with work lights you have a contant light which can be a benefit.

[birddog114]

by modelling lights i meant

you can actually see what the lighting setup is like

you shoot what you see

opposed to using a strobe flash that you have to do several light tests for to obtain the lighting effect you want

when using a strobe you dont know how the light will look like untill you take the shot, with work lights you have a contant light which can be a benefit.

Whichever way or method, you all have to pretest/ preshoot with your lighting before the real shooting, aren't you? even you shoot in a studio.
Or a lightmeter for both flash and camera, still required to do some tested shots in advance.

[wendellt]

of course

it's just more of a benefit to have a constant light

all you have to do is adjust fstop and shutter opposed to doing several light tests, moving the light and lowering the intensity of the strobe

you can model the scene with a constant light

in a Art Directional sense it's important to see the scene the way you want it
in most high end shots cars and fashion they have huge studios with constant lights

[jdear]

if its for a one off... why don you ask around for a couple of SB's...?

I just saw nikon's speed of light movie... and I have to say... multiple SB600 / SB800 setups rock!!

J

[birddog114]

of course

it's just more of a benefit to have a constant light

all you have to do is adjust fstop and shutter opposed to doing several light tests, moving the light and lowering the intensity of the strobe

you can model the scene with a constant light

in a Art Directional sense it's important to see the scene the way you want it
in most high end shots cars and fashion they have huge studios with constant lights

Yes, but look at the cost which the author mentioned at his initial post. Under $400.00 is his budget. Can you help him with the a constant lighting?.

[PiroStitch]

Wendell, we're on the same wavelength. That's why I wanted continuous lighting as it'll be easier to meter. Also I'm a bit creatively impaired so I can't really imagine what the lighting will be like w/out taking a dozen or so test shots to get lighting right

The only time I won't have a powerpoint nearby is probably in a park or a warehouse and I'll use the SB800 in those situations I can't imagine myself being put in a situation to do a pro warehouse shoot anytime in the near future...then again the Porsche shoot kinda popped up out of nowhere (but that's besides the point ).

For weddings, I won't try to be too creative out in a park as I'd rather use natural lighting then and I don't want to be lugging around a whole bunch of equipment as well which means SB800 again.

Sorry for the confusion, but I guess when I said portable I meant portable enough for me to take to another building/workshop where there will be a power supply

With the costs, I'd like to keep it minimal as much as possible but it goes over by a bit, I don't mind. As I'm starting off, I'm not really prepared on shelling out over 1k for lighting (D70 body was different ). I'll just need a basic two light setup with either softbox/reflectors.

[wendellt]

of course

it's just more of a benefit to have a constant light

all you have to do is adjust fstop and shutter opposed to doing several light tests, moving the light and lowering the intensity of the strobe

you can model the scene with a constant light

in a Art Directional sense it's important to see the scene the way you want it
in most high end shots cars and fashion they have huge studios with constant lights

Yes, but look at the cost which the author mentioned at his initial post. Under $400.00 is his budget. Can you help him with the a constant lighting?.

yes birdy

a sb600 costs around $400 right?
it probably wont be powerful enough to produce a light to cover an entire vehicle depends on the ambient light level and ou only get 1 small flash

for that price you can get several big work lights from bunnings you can have a 4 light setup and get really creative

[birddog114]

PiroStich,
Look at those PP, they always have their own light meter when or wherever they do modelling or product shoot, due to your restricted budgetary, I don't see or find any other economical to have a constant lighting as you wish.

I agree, constant lighting is quite use & helpful but once again, it'll be hard to ferry around or costly and you wanted it to be mobile or transportable.

[birddog114]

of course

it's just more of a benefit to have a constant light

all you have to do is adjust fstop and shutter opposed to doing several light tests, moving the light and lowering the intensity of the strobe

you can model the scene with a constant light

in a Art Directional sense it's important to see the scene the way you want it
in most high end shots cars and fashion they have huge studios with constant lights

Yes, but look at the cost which the author mentioned at his initial post. Under $400.00 is his budget. Can you help him with the a constant lighting?.

yes birdy

a sb600 costs around $400 right?
it probably wont be powerful enough to produce a light to cover an entire vehicle depends on the ambient light level and ou only get 1 small flash

for that price you can get several big work lights from bunnings you can have a 4 light setup and get really creative

No, the SB600 is less than $320.00.
I don't think 4 big work lights from Bunning will solve and helpful for him, the work lights produce very harsh lighting + heat, then you'll need soft boxes, curtain, umbrella etc.....and they will be over $400.00
If you do the work as a smash repair to respray a car in spraybooth during winter then they're suitable for that job.

[jben_net]

if its for a one off... why don you ask around for a couple of SB's...?

I just saw nikon's speed of light movie... and I have to say... multiple SB600 / SB800 setups rock!!

Where did you get this movie from? Did you order it online? It sounds interesting

[Raskill]

Good thread Piro. It's something I need to think about also, and was leaning towards constant lighting also. I have a female friend who wants 'arty' pregnant shots, so I was thinking of getting her, her husband and three year old in the one shot, but lighting will be an issue as I'm flying to Qld to take the pics. So it needs to either be purchased there or portable'

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Brand-New-FE-Mini-Mobile-Studio-Kit-Delux-3110P_W0QQitemZ7596245949QQcategoryZ30088QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

What about something like this, it comes in a 'carry bag'. I know it's cheap and not the best quality, but for a beginners set up for studio lighting would it be any good?

[Matt. K]

Just one more thing you should all think about....the light that comes out of a $24 flashgun is exactly the same as the stuff that comes out of a $3000 flashead. It's how you use it that counts.

[PiroStitch]

G'day Raskill,

I saw that kit last night but it's shipped from HK and not sure about GST issues Really tempting though

Good point Matt

[Raskill]

I think it should be GST free because it's under $500.

That being said, I don't know if they include postage in the price to make you have to pay the GST.

I'm not sure about the quality of the stuff, but I can't afford to spend much more on something I won't use that often, or may decide that studio shots aren't for me.

[Antsl]

If you are looking to get some lighting equipment for photographing cars would not be bothering with flash units of constant light sources ... both will reflect as hard points of light and if you try and diffuse them you are going to loose to much energy (unless you are shooting at night and can use long exposures or multiple flash).

You would be better off spending the $400 in making a couple of large two metre x 1.5 metre reflectors for yourself that have either a white or a soft silver surface. Place these near your car and you sill see more of an improvement in the image then you will ever get using an SB-600 or any other sub $1000 flash you care to mention.

Compact flash units are small hard light sources ... if you are going to make a car look good you need large light sources. Using reflectors is the best way of doing it no a cheap budget.

[PiroStitch]

Thanks Antsl.

Arrggh, the best and worst thing about photography So many answers to just one question...well one series of questions

If my understanding is correct, consider using the worklights and reflect the light off the reflectors?

[jdear]

Quote:
if its for a one off... why dont you ask around for a couple of SB's...?

I just saw nikon's speed of light movie... and I have to say... multiple SB600 / SB800 setups rock!!

--------
Where did you get this movie from? Did you order it online? It sounds interesting

You can get it on DVD @ ebay for around $35 AUD ex postage... BH has it for $25 USD ex postage.

I dodgily d/l (downloaded) some of it, curious to see what it was like... not knowing there was an online preview on nikonusa.com.

more info is here: http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?ca ... uctNr=5661

you can watch a preview of this dvd at the above address.

Maybe a member has it... I hadnt heard of it on this forum tho.

Now all i need is a few SB's and a DSLR!!

Jonathan

[Antsl]

Thanks Antsl.

Arrggh, the best and worst thing about photography So many answers to just one question...well one series of questions

If my understanding is correct, consider using the worklights and reflect the light off the reflectors?

My advice if you are photographing cars is not to add light from a small flash or constant light source (tungsten, etc). Instead just get a couple of big reflectors and use them instead without any additional light source (other than available daylight).

You can make reflectors for yourself by getting some cheap one or two inch pipe, a few corner joints and making a frame; then add some material to the frame.... sewing on some velcro to the edge of the material and then using adhesive velcro mate to the pipes is a good way of fixing it in place. The result is a large cheap reflector.

Why reflectors?
Go and have a look at your car from any camera angle and you'll notice that in the paint work you can see the surroundings being reflected. These reflections break up the lines of the car. Now have a look at a commercial car shot ... you notice that you do not see much being reflected in the panels of the car and this is probably because the photographer ensured the surroundings were clean OR used reflectors...

In effect you are photographing a large shiny object and the rules are the same as photographing a small shiny object. Wanna practise this? Get a silver trophy, bugle, spoon or anything that is chrome, silver, gold etc and try photographing it so that all the surfaces are clean. Angle of incidence = angle of reflection.

When professional photographers are using flash to light a car in the studio they typically use tens of thousands of watt seconds of flash power pumped through very large diffusers..... an SB-600 is equal to about 50 watt seconds or less. The reflector option is a cheap, reliable alternative way of getting an excellent result.

[birddog114]

It'll be whole lot of fun in doing the way Antsl mentioned.

I thought PiroStich just wants to do a portable studio lighting set to do modelling or in a studio, finally, now I understood, he wants to do product shoot as car I'm giving up!!!!!!

[Antsl]

Your right Birddog ... there is no one lighting fix for everything ... would'nt that make life easy! It is why the best photographers are also great innovators when it comes to lighting.... learn to see how light works, learn how to modify it and you can do anything.

Have a great weekend!!

[PiroStitch]

Point taken - guest I'll be lusting over other stuff besides lenses for now then

[Antsl]

Lust knowledge, its cheaper yet oh so valuable!

[Alex]

Very useful thread, thanks. That portable studio on ebay looks interesting. I wonder how good it is.

Alex

[PiroStitch]

Went to Vanbar to get some pricing. Was quoted $880 for the following kit:

2 x Stellar 500W Tungsten continuous lights
2 x 2.1m stands
2 x softboxes
2 x reflectors

Do you think it's worth it?

Antsl, I understand the use of reflectors to reflect natural lights, but having to do the shoot in a workshop will be a limitation - I can only do it in the evenings as well so there won't really be much natural lighting around :S There needs to be a white bkg as well in the shoot, hence the indoor setting.

Cheers for the help.

[beetleboy]

When we shoot cars in the studio we pretty much go by what Antsl has said. On an average sized car (like a 380!) we tend to use around 5-6 2k's reflected off the studio walls with styrofoam between the car and the lights. This gives a nice smooth horizon line down the side of the car..it's similar when shooting on location. We find a nice spot where reflections on the car are minimal and never use any extra lighting. If we just can't fix a crappy area we use big white or black sheets to block the reflection and add that element in as another shot.

If I tell you anymore I'll have to kill you all - this statement is not admissable in a court of law. PS - Gary, can you please forward that member location list ASAP!!

Liam =]

Edit: Sorry i didn't answer your question directly Piro! The studio where i work has tons of lights and toys so i have no idea how much it's all worth!

[PiroStitch]

Thanks for the help Liam...I think *sets up paranoia defense mode*

[elffinarts]

I've shot my car in a carpark with a nice low white ceiling and kept the SB600 behind the car so that the light I got on the car was that which bounced off the white ceiling. having isues signing into flickr to upload the shot so I'll show the result when I get home and can access the secure server there.