DSLRUsers.com

Hi,

Today I could successfully post my maiden snaps on the D70. Critique / openions welcome. Thats best way to learn. All photos are posted "as is" without any post processing.

http://www.pixspot.com/index.php?cat=10030

cheers,
ajax

ajax, well done on having the courage to post.

I'm not gunna mince words here, they're fairly ordinary. Lack of post processing - is this due to lack of know-how? I feel even running the ill-advised Auto levels and Auto contrast would improve the images somewhat. The two roses especially, looking rather flat. Keep at it, whether we like it or not, post processing and mucking about with the image is an unavoidable part of digital photgraphy and creating images.

Thanks for posting some pics.

Question, were you using the kit lens for all shots?

Onyx is right about the difference some post processing will do - however for your firs pics they are pretty good.

Another tip (if you aren't already - is to play around in the other modes of the camera (ie Manual, Aperture Priority, Shutter Priority) - keep shooting and posting

Looking forward to the next batch - cheers

Hello ajax,
You must be happy with your new 'toy'..I found when I got my D70 (and I'm still on a massive learning curve) that the best way to improve is to just get out there and shoot. JordanP made a GREAT suggestion to experiment with the different modes of the cam. I started in AUTO, then moved to AP and now well I hardly go out of Manual, and yep..I'm proud of myself for that. I've had some great lessons both in person and on the forum here and I'm loving it all! Cant' wait to see your next photos! Cheers,


Geoff.

Hey man,

Nice work capturing the boomerang there.. If those events are something you visit regularly, maybe try getting a shot of the 'rang just having left the thrower's hand.. if you get the timing right, with the right shutter speed I think that could look really great..

Otherwise.. keep snapping away and ask question if you get lost along the way..

Edit:
This is what I mean with the boomerang, but.. not with a bird..and maybe with some blur..

ajax, further to what the others have said....

With the shot of the dog, the feet at the top of the frame tend to make the shot look very much a snapshot. You probably didn't have much opportunity to direct, but even a small change in your position would have enabled you to crop them out in PP.

Keep posting

Ajax,

Well done.

As Onyx has said, there's certainly room for improvement. In the rose shots, switch to A, open the aperture up to wide open, and see where that takes you.

With the dog, change your viewpoint: drop down to your knees and look at the dog from the angle of another dog.

Keep posting, and watch how quickly your snaps will start to become photos.

Guys,

Thats very good. Healthy criticism is one more step towards improvement.

Onyx, you are right. Post processing is inevitable my mindset is just comming out of Pentax me super days. Adobe PS is out of question -- too dear. Is there any s/w could be used ? Is NC any good ?

Jordanp -- Yes the kit lens for all of them.

Greg, the composition in the dog snap was a mess, but I decided to post it "as is" first and find out where I stand.

Gary, Platinum, Geoff thanks for the encouragement.

merry xmas and a happy new year to all.


ajax

Ajax;

'The Gimp' is a completely free image manipulation program. I don't know how good it is with photo editting, but the price is right..

tip on the cost of Adobe Photoshop - if you can get your hands on an old copy - second hand or something - its worth it. I have predominantly used PS7 and it has more power and features than I could ever realise. Nothing against the new version .... but it might be a cheaper option.

Nikon Captre is good - but for me ... not as a primary post processing tool.

Looking forward to seeing more of your images

Seeing as you're near me...

I'd recommend heading to the Carribean Gardens Market on a sunday and have a look at the software being sold there. You should be able to pick up a demo of photoshop and see whether it's worth it buying a copy.

Sometimes people accidently sell full versions of software there for the same price. If this happens to you remember that legally you have to buy your copy, it doesn't matter if you've got a perfectly working pirated copy that you bought for $20..

That's all i'm gonna say on the matter.

ajax

Thanks for posting. Keep it up. The more shots you take, the better they'll get.

For pp, I use Photoshop Elements - this is a cut down version of Photoshop, but it has most of the feautures I need and is much cheaper. The auto correct functions are usually pretty good, but you can also do everything manually also when the auto doesn't work so well. It also comes bundled with Photoshop Album (which is very good also). The new version (Elements 3) also does RAW. I would recommend it highly.

Vic

Photoshop elements and others are editing programs geared towards enthusiasts like myself. My brother has PS CS so I use that for now, but when it becomes unavailable, I'm going to by Elements 3 for about $70 from Fryer's Outpost (Thanks Gary). But there are others as well, not too expensive and all of the options you'll ever need. Elements is simply one of them (and arguably the best out of most of them). PS I excitedly opened this post expecting to see a story about someone's girlfriend that suddenly lost her cool.

some of those look are overexposed / cooked

Hi Ajax

Hope you don't mind but I copied your photo of the nice dog (I love dogs) and put it through Photoshop Elements.
Did a little alteration of levels, sharpening and cropping.
Here is your original dog picture now



Compare this to



I was going to suggest Gimp as an alternative to spending money but others have already pointed out various software options to you.

As you can see though, post processing does add 'oomph' to most digital photos.

I'm assuming you would not object to my using your dog photo to illustrate post processing but if you do, please pm me and I'll delete your photos immediately.

Thank you for sharing your work Ajax

Merry Christmas

Graham

Nice work Graham, the eyes on the dog have really come alive, and the cropping is a big help.

ajax, you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear, but PP (which I am just getting into) is fantastic and very necessary with digital. Graham's demonstration is invaluable.

I ran your imaes through CS for some level adjustment, saturation change, colour balance change (on the rose shot.) and all round "d70 defog" unsharp mask of 20%, 17 pixels, 0 thresh.

http://photos.darb.net/photos/stuff/ajax/

(just fixed the link)

Graham,

don't mind at all. If fact it was nice of you to post both images so I could see the differences instantly. Look n learn. thanks for that.

darb,
good handywork mate.

cheers,
ajax

Just fixed that URL ...

http://photos.darb.net/photos/stuff/ajax/

Darb

You did a much better job than I did, especially on the dog.

Ajax

Thanks for your kind message. I copied your image being very mindful of your copyright and probably should ask for permission to do so before doing so. But, having said that, you are among friends here and therefore I assumed that it would be OK to do so before asking. (Does this make sense?)

I am in kindergartden as far as photography is concerned but probably in primary school with Photoshop elements.

Keep on snapping away, posting and learning.

Merry Christmas

Graham

Graham (bago)

Pls dont apologize, as I said I dont mind at all. We learn from each other and especially from the veterans here, that's why we have the forum. So NO WORRIES MATE.

cheers,
ajax

G'day Ajax, I was in the same boat when I first started using a high quality camera...

One thing I did which may help (it helped me heaps) was to take the same shot but with different settings using "A" (Aperture priority) to see the effect that different apertures have on the pic. Like using a low number (which means a large opening as the numbers are a fraction I think) will isolate subjects from other stuff in the pic by blurring backgrounds etc. so they don't distract your eye from your subject. Try taking a rose shot with a large aperture (say F3.5) then try the same shot with a small aperture (say F16) to see what happens to the end results... Same focus point but check out what the aperture does to the backgrounds etc.

Using the "A", "P" and "S" modes the camera adjusts other parameters to try and keep the exposure constant/OK, that way you can see how to compensate for the different settings and the effect thay have... In "A" mode the aperture stays constant and the cam adjusts shutter etc. In "S" mode the shutter stays constant and the cam probably adjusts aperture etc....

Once you've had a play, try switching to "M" (Manual) mode and try just framing a shot (looking at the subject through the viewfinder) and changing values like the aperture (default front dial I think) and the shutter (default back dial I think) to see what happens to the exposure (the meter reading in the middle)...

After a while, it all comes easier... It did for me... ***I hope I've got these things sort of right, the more experienced guys will confirm or correct where needed...***

Also, trying different angles really takes a pic from a snap to an interesting photo. With digital it's all free so go for it... Take heaps and experiment... I hope I haven't bored you , you might be thinking "oh, der..."

Most importantly, have fun mate! We do...

Cheers,
Mudder

mudder,
thanks. BTW what about the mini eastern suburbs meet ? Is there any progress ? I can see you are not very far...

cheers,
ajax

G'day Ajax,
Check: http://forum.d70users.com/viewtopic.php?p=16307#16307

Cheers,
Mudder

I'm in Surrey Hills boys, just down the road....

Ajax,

I agree with Mudder. There is nothing like playing in M mode to find out how things really work.

One of the things that I have noticed in the forums is that many people are intimidated by a SLR camera. After using a CP5700 for 18 months, I found that the d70 is, in fact, much easier to use. All of the camera controls are much easier to find and manipulate, so shooting A or M is very easy. Some people are particularly intimidated by M mode. This mode is not as manual as the name suggests - the camera will guide the user via the meter in the display. Learning to shoot M mode and using FV lock and EL, will definitely give you a big leg up when, for example, you start shooting heavily backlit scenes with flash.

As to your question concerning software. NC is decent enough software, even if it is only for its ability to upload camera curves - although it is very expensive if this is all that it is wanted for. NC's strength is in its ability to handle RAW exposure adjustments. PSE and PSCS can handle this through ACR, but this is a huge learning curve. Calibrating ACR on its own can be a real mind bender.
I usually recommend NC instead of ACR because the learning curve for d70 users is so steep that ACR can be overwhelming and NC handles NEF files the way in which Nkon intended - ACR does not.
I have tried all of the other RAW manipulation software available. Some do some things better than NC, but overall I keep going back to NC for RAW adjustments. Keep in mind that NC is not an image editor - it is no PS. I generally use it as the first step in post processing to make small adjustments to exposure, WB...

Sometimes I use Curve Surgery Pro from RawMagick (a bargain at US15) before and/or after NC because my in camera tone comp curve is just not right for the shot. Curve Surgery is for NEF files, Curve Therapy is for TIFF and JPEG. Raw Magick Lite is looking very promising as a RAW processor.

The standard tone comp curve is pretty horrible unless you are willing to spend time in PP. Colours are washed out and the image is dull. The images are very disappointing when compared to the instant saturated results of a P&S. Both of your images are standard d70 and could have used a different tone curve. It would have made a huge difference. I generally use Oldscools sReala curves, Nikon Low Contrast and sometimes the Nikon Normal Curve, depending on the situation. I would have used sReala for those shots.
I do not wish to over emphasise tone curves. They are just one part of the process for getting good results.

For the image editor, many are available. PSE3 is a good one on a budget. It really does not seem to give to much away to PSCS. It can be found bundled with some new scanners if you are in the market for a scanner. Alternatively I am sure that you could probably get it dirt cheap somewhere.
Paintshop Pro is another good one and very capable.
The Gimp had me scratching my head when I tried it out because colour management goes straight out the window. As a free image editor it is quite capable but users need to be aware that they give up a lot of control over colour between devices. eg monitor to printer. What you see on your monitor is not necessarily what you get from your printer. It would probably work quite well as long as everything is kept in the sRGB colour space (mode 1 or 3). There is a RAW plugin for The Gimp which works well. This could be a viable option for you if your budget is zero. Just be aware of its limitations.

A note, it is possible to shoot mode1/3 aRGB or mode2/sRGB with the d70 if you shoot RAW and use NC or ACR to open the images. Very handy. I work in aRGB but I can still shoot Mode1/3.

My photo suite is like this: NC, CSP, PSCS + I calibrate my monitor using Spyder2PRO. I had this all sorted before I started buying lenses and accessories. I stuck it out with the kit lens and a 70-300.

This is what I recomend to others: NC, CSP, PSE3 + hardware calibration. If you were living in my part of the world I would help you out with the monitor calibration.

Do not underestimate the importance of monitor calibration. This is one area that can cause much frustration. eg aRGB to sRGB conversions can cause colour shifts on uncalibrated monitors that can push ones sanity to the brink. Adobe Gamma and other visual tools are next to useless for calibration unless the user really knows what they are doing.

Now, having said all of that, I have made one fundamental mistake. I have assumed that you will be shooting RAW. There are a 101 compelling reasons to shoot RAW and not to many for shooting JPEG. The number one reason for shooting RAW is total control of post processing.

I apologise for the excessive length of my post. When I make a recomendation (in this case several), I feel obliged to explain why. Perhaps this really belongs in the tips and tricks forum.

Christmas Cheers to all

Matt

Matt,

thanks. Dont worry about long explainations, its steep learning curve.

thanks again,
ajax

matt,

Sorry! What I mean t was, I certainly dont mind the long explainations.

cheers

I really like to take pictures of dogs as well. Here's one that I'm particularly fond of, however looking at it now I think I made it a little too orange. I liked the warm look at the time. It was the first picture I have ever Post Processed. It definitly shows the difference between taking the photo on the dog's level as opposed to taking the photo from the human's point of view. Hmmmm, got me thinking about challenge #3. Dog's perspective eh? Picture of a set of jaws flying through the air snapping a frisbee... Just might work.




Dogs are funny, Some hate the camera. Some love it. I put some dogs in a pose and they just lie there and look at me until I grab the shot.

They are your first pics. Keep them somewhere and look at them again in 12 months and see how much improvement you 'will make' / 'have made'

Ajax, remember that you will learn more from practise than from reading tips. However, the tips in this thread are excellent and should be heeded, but the 'University of Life', is a far greater teacher, so get out there and shoot pics, pics and more pics.

The camera is the photographers equivalent of a painters paint brush. Practise make Monet.

Well done.

Killakoala wrote:Practise make Monet.

Eventually get to be good at this and manage to sell some photos. Make more Monet. :)