DSLRUsers.com

In light of Leigh's comment in an earlier thread, I thought it would be interesting to see how many of us feel they have truly outgrown their D70.

And we are talking about the actual camera body (and associated functions available), not shortcomings due to lens performance etc...

In what level of user?

- Pro
- Semi Pro
- Hobbyist
- Beginner

Each of above photographer's level has difference preferences and I don't see your question will address to all above 4 categories.

First of all, once people engaged in photography, they started at a P&S, then became a hobbyist, if their passion well developed into photography then they move up to Semi Pro or Pro. Those will take them in consideration of the uses of their camera bodies along their moves and progresses.

Birddog114 wrote:In what level of user?

- Pro
- Semi Pro
- Hobbyist

Each of above photographer's level has difference preferences and I don't see your question will address to all above 3 categories.

First of all, once people engaged in photography, they started at a P&S, then became a hobbyist, if their passion well developed into photography then they move up to Semi Pro or Pro. Those will take them in consideration of the uses of their camera bodies along their moves and progresses.

True. In this case they will choose either Definitely OR Getting close.

I did think about refining my query, however you could quite easily get caught up in refining it too much. Is a D70 acceptable for Pro wedding photography ? Pro Wildlife photography ? Pro Sports Photography ? There are so many variants to the "PRO" connotation, it could get confusing very quickly.

For this reason, I chose to keep it very simple and straightforward. If others want to voice their opinions, as you have, please do so as it is good for everyone to see this from all sides.

I voted no, mainly because I have only had access to this camera since Christmas, and before that had never used an SLR, let alone a DSLR, for anything other than a handful of occasions, such as at family functions. I still have loads to learn about this camera and about photography in general.

There is no doubt that the D70 was a brilliant camera when launched, particularly given its price point.

However, as time passes, technology improves. There are, in my view, some shortcomings in the D70 as compared with newer models. Many of these shortcomings were identified in this forum and other places when the camera first appeared, but there were not so many options then.

I see the following as critical issues:
viewfinder too small
LCD too small
higher ISO levels too noisy
flash sync too slow

I'm not even going into the FF sensor thing!

Once again, I make the point that the D70 is a wonderful camera, and I love mine. I have enjoyed working with it for the past couple of years, but...

does a Holden Kingswood rate as well as a Commodore? I think not.

And, by the way, although it is still true that the skill of the photographer is the biggest factor in producing fine images, I see nothing wrong in wanting to use the best tools available for the job.

Trevor I upgraded to the D2X simply because I could. I certainly had not outgrown the D70 and I am a long way short of mastering my new camera.

I think my D70 still has a lot to offer and I'm still learning from it.

But, I've heard things about th D200 which I feel would be so useful - for example the use of the inbuilt commander flash mode being able to control two channels independently and act as a flash itself (this might be rumour but the idea is very very appealing).

I'll continue to use my beloved 70 for a good while yet. I'll definately upgrade at some point in the future, but for now, I'll keep pluggin with "ole faithful"

No. There is things I would like extra, but it is still a perfectly good tool. In fact the image quality doesn't seem to have decreased with age at all

Glen wrote:No. There is things I would like extra, but it is still a perfectly good tool. In fact the image quality doesn't seem to have decreased with age at all

So you're going to sell your newly acquired 5D at a bargain price?

There's not a lot I need to say I guess I'd echo what Trevor has already said.

Outgrown for me would be an understatment, i'm still trying to chase the quality and imagination from some of our members, simply sensational......

I haven't even got mine warmed up yet hehehe

I answered No, as I'm barely scratching the surface of the D70's potential, and it is rare that I feel the camera is holding me back. Possibly the only place where I have ever felt that is with the D70's level of noise, particularly in long exposures, but thats only a small niche of the photograph I do, that I live with it.

If it doesn't suit I may. I doubt I would lose money

I consider that people are illogical beings Stubbsy. We may have a perfectly good camera, car, girlfriend, boyfriend, etc which does the job fine, but sometimes we need a change to refresh the creative juices. Of course if you are John Laws or Lindsay Fox you just keep on buying extra cars and keep the old ones. I would aim to emulate the last two, buy new but keep the old. I still have my 1975 Cadillac Fleetwood Eldorado convertible in the garage which I have had for ages, still have a 1976 911 Carrera at the panel beaters which I bought 22 years ago, etc, etc

You can see by those two cars that my tastes are eclectic, I think one can be the same in cameras. I still have an FG on the shelf here, unfortunately it doesn't work Luckily my old 601 does

I voted "Not Sure, Maybe?" because, though I'm not always 100% happy with the type of shot I'm taking, it's not the camera that's letting me down but rather my own shortcomings in compostition, subject choice, etc.

I'm very comfortable with D70 and I'm not shy of making use of all its features depending on the photographic situation. There's not much unchartered territory left in the camera for me so I suppose it's lost a little of its initial WOW factor. Having said that, I think it's vital to be comfortable with your equipment; being able to quickly dial up settings almost without thinking and knowing they'll do what you want them to do may sometimes mean the difference between getting a shot and not. In this way, having a familiar old friend hanging around your neck is very comforting.

Obviously, as Trevor said, there's nothing wrong with wanting the best tools for the job so it would be great to have a top-of-the-line camera. It's all a matter of budget and need vs want. I don't need a new set of Pings in my golf bag, I don't need a Lamborghini Murcielago in my garage and I don't need a D2x in my camera bag. But do I want them? Rhetorical question...

Outgrown the D70s? Not even close!!! The camera is just an enabler. A better camera just makes it easier to fulfill your potential as a photographer, but it won't produce better photos.

In fact, I reckon if you had a selection of the best photos taken with a D70s, the best photos taken with a D2X, hell, even the best photos taken with a 1Ds Mk II... You would be hard pressed to tell the difference unless you were doing A/B comparisons of the same subject.

All a better camera (or even lens) will give you is: speed, more flexibility and convenience. If you are getting paid to be a photographer, you pay the extra so that your job is easier. The images won't look any better in the end IMO.

I have a loooooooong way to go before I feel that the camera is holding me back

I don't think I've outgrown it, no. Do I want a D200? Yes. Is the D200 value for money compared to the D70? Perhaps not. Is it going to improve my photography? Probably not. Is it a nice new toy that I'm going to have a lot of fun with? Hell yeah!

As always with these things, you pay lots% extra for an extra few% of features...

Aussie Dave wrote:
Is a D70 acceptable for Pro wedding photography ?

This is a really good question, and one i hear from guests who own D70's at weddings. This is more of a business question.

Birddog touched on it; hobby systems are completely different to working systems. If people are paying you on a frequent basis to take photos, then usually your first priority is not the cost of the camera's or lenses, but more about will this give you something that people will pay more for. I.e. will you get a greater return on the investment. In the end, working systems pay themselves off.

I could talk on the business side of things for ages, but getting it back on track, yes i've out grown the D70. As for the hobbyist, the D70 is a great camera. My wife used one for a few years and had great results.

There are quite a few limitations with the D70 that I don't have with my other camera's. Apart from the limitations mentioned by cricketfan, i'd like to add the limited dynamic range. Highlight data is clipped to early. And anything above 400ISO had interesting artifacts when printing above A4.

Having said all that, I think the glass is more important then the body. I'd rather shoot with a D50+85mm f1.4 or 17-55mm then a D2x+18-70mm.

If you're charging $900 for a wedding then i'd say yes. If you're charging $5000 for a wedding, then you should be producing prints that push the boundaries of a D70. So i'd say no.

No way for me - im also only just scratching the surface and starting to get creative with my beast.

"No way!" for me. The D70s is still long way way from holding me back; I'm pretty sure I'm the one holding it back at the moment (I hope it doesn't get frustrated and put me on eBay)

padey wrote:Apart from the limitations mentioned by cricketfan, i'd like to add the limited dynamic range. Highlight data is clipped to early.

Have you used a custom tone curve in the camera? You can use curves that hold more highlight data than the standard curve to ameliorate the situation somewhat.

There have been times where I felt a bit limited by the D70 but those times have been very rare

As for the high ISO noise, I've learnt to deal with it and be creative with the noise as some may have already seen

Haven't outgrown the camera from the technical perspective though

Uh ... isn't the point to produce a good photograph, irrespective of the tool?

I may be missing the point here, but it seems to me that the "greats" of the past, eg: Adams, Bresson, Dupain, etc, didn't have all the technology that we have today and managed to produce images that most (well, I personally) would (almost) die to claim as my own.

Without meaning to offend anyone, I think, personally, that we can get so caught up in the "who has what, who's got the best" phenomena that we forget the issue of photography itself - ie: the photograph.

I know many Pro Photographers who produce wonderful shots using the D70 and their clients don't give a damn what model or lens produced the shot. They love the shot and are happy. Isn't that what it's all about?

That doesn't mean that I wouldn't LOVE to have a D200 or D2X - I really really would! But my "budgetary constraints" (ie: I'm forbidden to buy anything else for quite a while!) are such that it's out of the question for now.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth. As I said, I may be missing the point but if you produce a good image, who gives a damn whether it was taken with a Canon, or Nikon, or D200 or D2X or a D50? I produced some lovely African images with my (beloved) FG which, like Glen's, is now Resting In Peace

By the way ... no, I haven't outgrown my D70, if you haven't guessed.

MCWB wrote:Have you used a custom tone curve in the camera? You can use curves that hold more highlight data than the standard curve to ameliorate the situation somewhat.

I think you've confused Tonally Curve and Dynamic Range.

If not, then you're going to have to explain to me how a tonally curve applied to sensor data can adjust the dynamic range of a given sensor.

Maybe was my vote. The D70 is an extremely capable machine with first rate exposure and flash systems. The limiting feature for an advanced user is most likely the sensor. Next most wanted feature would be a vertical grip with the appropriate controls. Unless a user needs very high resolution images, he/she would have to be a very sophisticated user to hit the wall with a D70.

I have put my vote in as a definite.

For my type of photography I need an upgrade of the following:

High ISO performance: a lot of shots are at night and in the dark

Frames per second: a lot of shots are action

Larger viewfinder: to help with composing the shots

Upgraded lcd: Not necessarily larger

Battery grip (extended battery life): I chew through the batteries at an incident

Camera build: sometimes the D70 gets a little knocked around.. could use something a little more solid.


If i wasn't doing the PJ stuff I'd say that the D70 was more than perfect for nature/landscape photography.. without a doubt.

cheers

I like the D70 and it takes nice pictures but it is not necessary to outgrow it to change. I do not think there is much to look for,unless you like to split hairs, then again I have a superficial mind. There are only so many ways you can shoot, I only want faster AF, a bigger view finder, more definition to fully use the lenses which I think are just as important.
Cheers,
Gerard

I'd have to say sorta...

I feel that the D70 is a great camera and I haven't outgrown it as such.

But for when I'm doing bird photography there are definately limitations to the CAM-900 autofocus system. That's not to say that I can't get good shots with it... but when the light levels get low it can get very frustrating to see a great bird photo come into focus... then go out of focus... then in ... then out as the focus hunts around.

So while I definately don't think that I have outgrown the D70... I think that sometimes a D70 limits my picture taking abilities. I don't think a D2X would make my photos any better... but it would allow me to take photos when sometimes the D70 won't allow me.

Now I just have to figure out if the D200 will overcome the CAM-900 problem or if I will have to save for the D2X (something I can never see myself being able to justify... even when I have the money).

Paul

I think the D70 is a Brilliant camera.. its my first ever SLR camera... and I love using it all the time.. but geez.. id love a big fancy looking camera aswell... but my skills are still only minimal.. and I think ive got a long way to go before I can really justify me having a better camera... or a more pro type of camera

Tim

No, I haven't outgrown my D70. Besides the fact that I promised my wife that this camera would last me a LONG time, it really does everything I need. In comparison to others, I guess I don't take a lot of photos, so all I need is a reliable and functional tool which allows me to satisfy my creative needs. I'm in this game purely for the enjoyment, and at this point I can't see any gain by upsizing my camera (obviously extra/better lenses and other doodads is another matter)

Frank

Not at all! I'm still learning photography and from what I've seen people doing with D70, it's a long way to go. I'm definitely more than happy with my D70 and the features it offers to an amateur photographer like me.

I definitely haven't outgrown this camera - still take shit shots

Seriously though, I would like to have been able to use this camera with an infra-red setup for bats, but only available with D70S or above (Thanks for letting me know that Zeeke ) .......

So will continue to take so-so shots, and enjoy doing it

Rel

I'm at the point of thinking about the D200, but I'm not sure its going to be any better than the D70 in regards to noise at high ISO (and at not so high ISO sometimes- D70 at ISO 200 some shots show noise bands)
The D70 definitely isnt reliably up to the task for astrophotography, although occasionally it does produce decent results after I have PP'd them a bit and added several images together to average out the noise.
That said its still a great camera for general daytime photography and I'll keep on using it for another year or 2, as I cant justify the expense of the D200 yet.

Gordon

I voted "No Way!". I have a looong way to go yet to reach the limits of the D70.

Not the D70 but lusting after some nice glass..

MATT

I hadn't outgrown my FE2 when I switched to the D2H, for merely practical and convenience reasons. I still think that the FE2 (+MD12) is very close to the perfect camera, and I certainly wouldn't mind a digital version of it.

Now, imagine that: a DSLR with match-needle meter (centre-weighted), simple TTL flash, manual focus and a big sutter speed dial. No LCD display either, or maybe just a histogram display. I'd even tolerate a focus indicator (like AF without the motor). Sounds like something Leica would make

I'd swallow that hook, line and sinker.

Damn, I'm drooling over my keyboard again...

Cheers
Steffen.

Now that is some wish list Steffen