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About a month ago i did this commercial shoot for a real estate development company they had a development at Marrickville that they wanted to photograph as well as the township.

they neglected to organise any kind of permits so i could do my job without getting hassled

the development was easy no one cared

marrickville was a hot issue i went into a cafe explained blah blah what i was doing and did the right thing some people consented alot did not which is totally understandable

so i proceeded to photogaph the local bars butchers, shops from a far like across the road i even spent time explaining to everyone what i was doing got dirty looks and even got shooed away - understandable again

so i then decided o.k time to shoot marrickville landmarks like the park, a few exterior shots of churches and all, no problem

then i decided to take a picture of this old marrickville police station which had been abandoned it was a heritage looking building somehow someone identified me and reported me to the police as being suspicious and now the police has questioned me and written a report about it. The police say they get these kind of reports all the time and alot of the time it's just people getting too overly cautious he said things shoudl be fine but somehow this whole thingsbothers me.

i know people are paranoid at this time but really i was photographing an abandoned police station during midday light how obvious and innocnet is that? I dressed and conducted myself as a professional too.

I explained to the people who comissioned me that is was a really bad shoot and i wished not to work with them under those circumstances again
I explained to them that if they wanted photographs of shop interiors and train stations they needed to get permission from the council first and get the proper permits consent from shop owners.

Somehow they convinced me i did not have to worry about those issues, well they were wrong

Wendell - hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it? Next time though you will know to ask that your employee has permits for you so that you can produce them if questioned. It sounds like the person that has reported you as gone a bit over the top, sadly its a sign of the times. From what you've said though, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

Wendell,

I wouldn't worry about it. Yes, people are paranoid. And they're idiots.

The issue is whether or not you did anything wrong. From what I'm seeing, you were making images from public property, or from private property but with the permission of the owners or occupiers of those properties. There is nothing illegal, nor wrong, with doing any of that.

Wendell,

do you have the communcations b/ween yourself and the company in writing? If so, you can probably use that in your defence as well.

Shouldn't have anything to worry about mate

good luck with it.

Cheers,

Wayne

Better get used to bread and water to eat, and wearing prison clothes..??
You should be ok, the police have to act on any reports, but like they said you should be fine.
Last resort is to act dumb & stupid, it always works for me...!

Marty

Wendellt,
You have no problems there in principal but you have done an illegal act (as described by little Johny's laws" , I don't think you should worry about it, just something to learn.

Same as my shooting for most the charity works, the organization who I shoot for (work for) always showed me their current permits to shoot and give me a copy of it, if not I'll request, especially with the present of VIPs.

I will never shoot if I don't have any legal document in my hand + including their Public Liability insurance policy.

So Wendell

a. would the police have been contacted if you were a nice white caucasian?
b. how did the police find you?
c. did they refer to the photographing the old police building as the reason for their visit, or was it more general?

Disclaimer I'm a white caucasian

We had a situation like this. There was a guy walking around North Ryde taking pics of building...looking a bit dodgy, as he had a SLR and Video Cam. One of the managers called me over because I am apparently the "company expert" ?!@#!$ on cameras.

Well after he took pics of our building he calmly walked up did the same to Raytheon and apparently already had pics of Lucent, CSC, Marconi and Boeing Missile systems.

I thought not much of it. But I did tell the manager it's a bit funny as this was a not a tourist area and the fact he had a SLR and Vid, and none of the building are a landmark as such. Well he rang one of the guys at Raytheon and all hell broke lose within 10 minutes there was about 3 cop cars and about 5 security guys from Raytheon came out about the same time. I presume the security just waited for the police before coming out to question him.

They let him go - he was talking the pics for CBRE and they commissioned him as they wanted pictures of the area for a new development they are flogging offshore.

It was a talking point for the week. Not the fact it was harmless mistake but how many scary looking security men were in Raytheon!!!!!!! PS: they let him go...I presume he had documentation or CBRE vouched for him.

Sad times I guess.

stubbsy wrote:So Wendell

a. would the police have been contacted if you were a nice white caucasian?
b. how did the police find you?
c. did they refer to the photographing the old police building as the reason for their visit, or was it more general?

Disclaimer I'm a white caucasian

o.k this is the weird thing

right next to that old abandoned police station with no strategic importance
was a cafe i shot that cafe too after getting permission from the owner i handed him my card, somone on the street or at that cafe must of got my details from that owner, weird thing is if i were really dodgy why would i give out my business card and be easily identifiable

I don't really care too much but this has happened to me twice first time under the harbour bridge
i'm just worried now that i have 2 reports under my name and the fact that i just came back form a kids shoot in noosa what's next

in a months time a policeman is going to call me up and say hey we got a report of you photographing kids in swimsuits on a beach in Noosa!

birdy your right about the permit thing
when i do press work i have my papers.

wendellt wrote:i'm just worried now that i have 2 reports under my name and the fact that i just came back form a kids shoot in noosa what's next

None of which are at all dodgy. Where's the problem?

Wendell,

As Gary said, people who are overly cautious are also stupid.

From what you've told us, you've done everything within your power correctly, short of wearing a shirt that says I'm a photographer, not a terrorist/paedophile/*insert dodgy status here*

I've had a few moments with gung-ho citizens and security guards before and it's more of an annoyance than anything really.

Wendellt,
Don't come to my place again! you're followed by ASIO

You always need or have the permit, contract, paperwork including their Public Liabilty insurance policy with you whenever you commisioned by someone, regardless who they are.

Thing may turns into nasty if you once ignore those rules. I warn you once again.

birddog114 wrote:Wendellt,
Don't come to my place again! you're followed by ASIO

You always need or have the permit, contract, paperwork including their Public Liabilty insurance policy with you whenever you commisioned by someone, regardless who they are.

Thing may turns into nasty if you once ignore those rules. I warn you once again.

the people who comissioned me just somehow assured me everything would be fine since i wasn't too thriled about the job i just casually went o.k i'll shoot the township even though in the back of my head i knew they had to do a lot of groundwork(getting permits consents) before i could do my job properly

it wasn't worth it

now i have a few things to burn.

wendellt wrote:now i have a few things to burn.

CD's?

wendellt wrote:i know people are paranoid at this time but really i was photographing an abandoned police station during midday light how obvious and innocnet is that?

"Abandoned police station" - yeah right Maybe you were onto something, and someone was worried what you could have found in this "abandoned police station"

Cheers
Steffen.

if you work with children in Queensland you need a Blue card......

This has always been a nagging point in the back of my head. I get nervous to shoot photos of public areas for fear of getting embarassed after being shooed away. I am a novice photographer just starting out, clicking away for fun and hence dont have permits or large client names to drop.

I always wondered what do you do in such kind of situations.

makario wrote:
I always wondered what do you do in such kind of situations.

Hit 'em over the head with your longest lens and run

Very interesting topic here. I get paranoid when shooting in a public place with my 500 f4. If there are houses nearby or anything where it could even remotely look like I'm being dodgy (maybe I should get rid of my goatee)I think twice before taking photos. Sad really.

Paul

Wendell, is it possible that you should be investigated?

big pix wrote:if you work with children in Queensland you need a Blue card......

opps the blue card is for the construction industry..... Looking up the correct one

Greg B wrote:Wendell, is it possible that you should be investigated?

I didn't think it was illegal to abuse ones lens in public, maybe I missed the memo ?
(j/k Wendell)

opps I was right the first....... lots of info here.......

http://www.childcomm.qld.gov.au/employment/index.html

If it was anything serious Wendell, I'm sure you would have heard about it by now.

Perhaps next time you are commissioned, you can tell your employer to either obtain the appropriate permits, or give you something in writing (with their letterhead on it - and signed by someone), so if anyone questions you, they can pester the people who are too ignorant to do the right thing (and obtain the permits)...instead of the person who gets sent out to the front line without any ammo

Wendell... I can't believe you are justifying people's ignorance by worrying about this. It's a waste of your time. If you had done something wrong the gents in blue would have invited you to the cop shop for a cup of coffee and a donut.

You're on public property... shoot until your heart is content. If someone asks you to move along or stop shooting their property etc, weigh up their request and do whatever your instinct leads you to do.

You only feed the paranoia of the uneducated if you scuttle away. Never let the bureaucrat's get the better of you, and never show them your cards. People need to move on and stop listening to Little Johnny's cotton wool campaigns.

Aussie Dave wrote:Perhaps next time you are commissioned, you can tell your employer to either obtain the appropriate permits, or give you something in writing (with their letterhead on it - and signed by someone), so if anyone questions you, they can pester the people who are too ignorant to do the right thing (and obtain the permits)...instead of the person who gets sent out to the front line without any ammo

Any contractor, photographer, who's commisioned by other party to do the shooting in public, required to have a copy of the permit + P/L insurance + copy of contract and never hand out your own business card as your presentation.

Legally, if any Authority want to challenge or asking you more questions, just refer them to your superior and play dumb: " sorry, I'm only a worker for this organization, please contact this or that person".

xerubus wrote:You're on public property... shoot until your heart is content. If someone asks you to move along or stop shooting their property etc, weigh up their request and do whatever your instinct leads you to do.

Mark,
If you just shoot for fun or hobby, then it's OK.
But when your shooting as commercial, then a permit + P/L insurance is required within any Local Council boundaries, National Parks, Landmarks etc...

is this federal or just nsw law? i've shot many commissioned jobs which either include or are on both commonwealth and 'public' property? perhaps i need to look into this?

cheers

xerubus wrote:is this federal or just nsw law? i've shot many commissioned jobs which either include or are on both commonwealth and 'public' property? perhaps i need to look into this?

cheers

Mark,
Just an example:
Ask Wendell, how many permit and other requirement did Fred Bare acquired prior to the children fashion shoot?

And I believe it had been discussed here few times regarding shooting commercial of landmarks as Opera House, Harbour Bridge, National Parks.

P.S: Shutterbug, who frequently shooting wedding will add more of his information.

I thought I was hard done by with the dirty looks and hassles I sometimes get for being a sweaty leather clad motorcyclist. Imagine what would happen if i pulled my camera out and started shooting whilst standing beside my bike.

The Qld Blue Card is given to just about anyone, I've got one.
Craig

wendellt wrote:I don't really care too much but this has happened to me twice first time under the harbour bridge

Wendell, this line from your previous post disturbs me slightly. Not because you were taking pics under the Harbour Bridge, but because I've done EXCATLY the same thing without any hassles. A little story:

About nine months ago I found myself at Milsons Point with some time to kill and my D70 in the car with me. I went down to the foreshore and took the usual harbour shots as well as a few candids, etc. Then I started taking pics of the actual bridge from unusual angles, eg, standing directly underneath photographing the bridge deck, taking pics of those huge anchor bolts on the pylons, etc, my only motive being to try and capture an arty or unusual shot. About this time a security guard that had been watching me wanders up for a chat. I think "Shit, he must think I'm taking pics of where to place the charges".

Nope, he just wanted to let me know that the local parking coppers were due to make their rounds soon, so I should go and feed the meter!!

I can only conclude I didn't "LOOK" like a threat, being Anglo. The moral of the story is that apparantly we should be alert but not alarmed, especially if you look racially correct... I have a friend of Chinese ancestry whose ancestors came to Australia 150 years ago during the gold rush, way before many of my forefathers came to this country. However, if it had been him taking the pictures, would he have been treated so politely?

I have done this kind of background shoots for ages no paperwork no permits just a contract to cover the area. If I am shooting from a public area then there is no problem.

If police want to know what I am doing they can ask me,

If they have a problem with what I am doing they can charge me.

I have no idea what they could charge me with though using a camera in a threatening manner?

People are paranoid the cops know that but have to check everything out just incase, imagine the stink if this happened "terror attack photographer reported police did nothing" they are just covering their butts.

Dug wrote:I have done this kind of background shoots for ages no paperwork no permits just a contract to cover the area. If I am shooting from a public area then there is no problem.

Perhaps with people whose you signed contract with, is already got the permit and insurance covered but you may not know or noticeable.

Some folk just don't get it!...This is a free country!....It is not Bolivia or Belarus or Libia or Iran! It is Australia! In this country photography is not an illegal act! Yes...there are times when commercial photography may need a council permit and there are times when commercial photographers may need to have PL insurence.....but most of the time you don't need permission from anyone to use your camera in a public place. Wendell....taking pictures of an old police station is fine. Nobody can stop you and if somebody asks "what are you doing?" you can tell them to F...off! A lot of fine young soldiers died so that you can be free....Don't insult their memories by being afraid to stand up for those rights for which they have made their sacrifice! Stand up for your rights always or somebody will take them off you.

In regards to Wendalls worries i add the following for interest,

A little while ago i was taking pics of the Commonwealth Batton relay coming through our town ,i arrived early and surveyed the scene to choose locations to shoot from,and chose a spot on a median stip in the middle of a dual motorway so i could shoot in all directions, there were groups of primary school children every where, begging for their pics to be taken so i rattled off a few while waiting for the batton to arrive, i was approached by a bloke who said he was a teacher of the school and that it was illeagal for me to take pics of the kids without permission, i was very pleasant (for me) said ''oh i didn't know that'' and that i was just a poor struggling photographer, after which he said ''if you want i can arrange the kids after the event so you can take some pics'' i declined and explained the moment would be gone , he then left me after i said i would be moving away to another location, which i was,
I noticed as he rejoined his group that he spoke to a press photographer i know by appearance only who was pointing my way and becoming quite adjitated, anyway i moved along, and nothing more happened however i got the feeling it may have if i had been agro, i found it weird he told me to stop taking pics but did not ask me to delete the frames i had already got and that the press fellow was obviously worried ,(could have been about anything )

This is not the first time i have been told to cease and desist taking photo's, i hang around the docklands and pier area's of Melbourne on a regular basis as i have been documenting the changes to the area's over the past few years ,( as recent as the comm games) and i have been spoken to by , the police, the federal police, customs, chubb security and others, the water police, harbour control and even had my bags searched by asio, at all times even though i was upset i remained calm , friendly and polite, a couple of times i was worried as i was told i could have my gear confiscated, but it never happened,

As an interesting point, prior to and during the comm games i took pics from all over the yarra,docks, etc and including pics of every law enforcement watercraft i saw, military anti terror and private and i reckon the security was much less strict towards me during those times !!i shot mostly in broad daylight in full view of those i had targetted/ oops i mean framed to take a pic of,

I really don't feel we do anything wrong taking our camear's into public places, it aint illeagal, but we need to be mindful of the frenzy our leaders have whipped up in relation to terror etc, so we ALL must keep taking pics when and where we want, but when on contract take Birdies advice (is that man ever wrong?!!!)

It is at this stage a free country

It's good to see our fridge magnets are successfully keeping police occupied in pursuing dangerous elements in our society

Bad luck Wendell, our society seems to have a very low view of people with cameras in the streets. Some of the most powerful images and pieces of art from the 20th century were street photography, not that the average terrorist-fearing paranoid moron seems to care...

Wendltt do you have a working with children permit? Dept of Sport and Rec will accept an application and check you out with police checks etc. not a bad pass to have.
jethro

Nikon boy wrote: i was approached by a bloke who said he was a teacher of the school and that it was illeagal for me to take pics of the kids without permission,

In my particularly interesting way of approaching people about this kind of thing, I generally inform then that they are wrong, continue to do what I'm doing and invite them to call the police to come and arrest me.
I even offer to do it on my own phone.
When they are confronted like that they normally just go away.

About a year ago I was working in Adelaide and took photos of every police station in the CBD.
The next day, back in Canberra I got a phone call from SIB. The conversation went roughly like this:

"Andy, were you taking photos of this building yesterday?"

"Maybe. Why do you ask?"

"Someone matching your description was seen taking photos of Wakefield St."

"Do you have the description of this violent felon?"

"Yep. Dark Shirt with a logo, black pants. Black backpack and very short hair. "

"Did they mention "extremely handsome, bordering on gorgeous"?"

"Nope. "

"I reckon that your eyewitness is full of shit then, or obviously it wasn't me.."


Every time I go back, they give me shit about that little episode... but at least we have photos of every major police station in Australia.


Don't let people bullshit you because they've seen "A current Affair" or they think that they have some sort of authority where they don't.
You can take photos of anything you like in public, if you're taking them from a public place.

(Just be sure that you don't include any kids who are named in court orders)
Although you'd be able to plead ignorance about that one and most probably get away with it.

And as for being "Investigated", believe me, the coppers know exactly what kind of crap has happened since those fucking fridge magnets got distributed....

when the missus arrived back from a boat cruise i took pics of the ship coming in to the wharf etc and got chased off by an official helocopter ... they didnt say anything just buzzed me so i moved up the river and started getting some long distance shots and they chased me off again

bloody dust everywhere

whiz wrote:"Did they mention "extremely handsome, bordering on gorgeous"?"

"Nope. "

"I reckon that your eyewitness is full of shit then, or obviously it wasn't me.."

Gold, nicely played

Big Red wrote:when the missus arrived back from a boat cruise i took pics of the ship coming in to the wharf etc and got chased off by an official helocopter ...

Not to mention that you could quite easily claim that you were intimidated by the aircraft being flown near you in a public place. TWICE, intentionally.

People lose their pilots licences for things like that.
Do you have any shots or witnesses for that?
The Civil Aviation Authority might like to hear your side of things...

looks like someone needs an OCAU's

I'm not a Terrorist I'm a Photographer T-shirt

kenny12 wrote:looks like someone needs an OCAU's

I'm not a Terrorist I'm a Photographer T-shirt

That won't help but it is getting worse!

This is an interesting read (by an Australian lawyer) regarding our rights. It does settle a few misconceptions.

http://www.4020.net/unposed/photorights.shtml

Cheers
Sheila

Thanks for the interesting link Sheila

Cheers
Gecko

kenny12 wrote:looks like someone needs an OCAU's

I'm not a Terrorist I'm a Photographer T-shirt

If only they made one for the bigger photographers... then Ill wear one... bloody skinny nerds..

Tim

I have been rousted twice by the cops whilst out photographing birds.
first time had 2 uniformed cops come up and ask what I was doing.
one had a look at the review screen and was happy.

The second time it was 2 cops on bicycles and a police helecopter.
again the bike ones just asked what I was up to and had a look at the screen and were happy. The wocka passed over me and IDed me.
When I was sure they were close enough to see that I didnt have a weapon, I took some shots of the wocka.

Interestingly enough, I had the monopod on my rig both times.
Perhaps some concerned citizen reported a guy with a rifle at the local park, or it could have just been a coincidence.

I havent used the pod since and have had no further issues. weird.

Steve

Zeeke wrote:If only they made one for the bigger photographers... then Ill wear one... bloody skinny nerds..
Tim

Get 3 of them, sew them together and make a poncho

Thanks for the link Sheila. Very long read, but will read it.

Sheila Smart wrote:This is an interesting read (by an Australian lawyer) regarding our rights. It does settle a few misconceptions.

http://www.4020.net/unposed/photorights.shtml

Thanks for the link Sheila.

I've printed out the 2 page summary to add to my kit and also added links to this into the Important Links thread

stubbsy wrote:

Sheila Smart wrote:This is an interesting read (by an Australian lawyer) regarding our rights. It does settle a few misconceptions.

http://www.4020.net/unposed/photorights.shtml

Thanks for the link Sheila.

I've printed out the 2 page summary to add to my kit and also added links to this into the Important Links thread

And show it to the people who you took their photos on NC beach early last year, ask them to read it loudly! or print few spare copies and hand out to them.

This document was posted here last year and I have made good use of it