DSLRUsers.com

I've been watching the skirmishes in dili on the tele lately, and I know this probly sounds a little suicidal/crazy but I'd do anything to be embedded with either dili local forces or australian troops going over there to fight and cover it with my camera.

There is something about this kind of photography that has always imensely interested me, something about capturing spectacular images of struggle triumph and also the perils of such events.

this begs the question.... what do the photographers do to get embedded in places like this to they strike up deals with news agencies as freelance photographers or do they wing it out of thier own pocket to get over there. I have no idea exactly what goes on in this part of photo journalism but this is the stuff thats always really captured my attentions and spurred on many ideas and thoughts.

If anyones read anything or knows anything it would be great to hear.

You are not alone, half of me really wants to go up there.

I think you would just find some photographers up there and string along.

File photos to Getty or AAP and hope they get used.

Any newspaper guys out there with more info to share?

If I had more cash and the means to transfer images to places like getty and AAP as well as a little more knowledge of a few things I'd be up there right now too.

but alas

Not simple as you said and think guys!
You should belonged or working to some news agencies as News Corp, Fairfax etc....
To get embedded into any War zone places required lot of work and accreditation same as your agency has to sign an agreement with The Defense Forces and have to be selected.

I was working with AP in the US and i learned something, but more than 20 years ago, at that time, it's not tough but now it's too difference.

I've read a few books from freelance embedded journalists this has probly helped to stoke the photojournalism fire for me a bit, this is something id love to get into one day.

one day.

birddog114 wrote:I was working with AP in the US and i learned something, but more than 20 years ago, at that time, it's not tough but now it's too difference.

Birdy what did you have to do to be represented by Associated Press?

There's a difference between being embedded and 'normal' war photography. I'd imagine to be embedded with a unit you'd have to go through military channels to get authorisation, and I wouldn't like your chances unless you have some press credentials (NB: This is pure speculation on my part).

I think this type of photojournalism (war correspondence) is amazing, at work we have a book with every Pulitzer Prize winning shot and all of them are just stunning. The Vietnam shots are some of the most famous photos ever taken, for good reason. I couldn't do it myself, but I have so much respect for those that do.

Robert Capa said "If your pictures aren't good enough, you aren't close enough." He got too close - died from stepping on a land mine . If you decide to do it, be careful.

wendellt wrote:

birddog114 wrote:I was working with AP in the US and i learned something, but more than 20 years ago, at that time, it's not tough but now it's too difference.

Birdy what did you have to do to be represented by Associated Press?

That was a long story, I posted on here before.
Mostly got in the game by friends and colleagues whose I knew them over the VN war, I ferried them to the front and rear daily on my slick or gunship, they were and some are working for UPI, AP etc....

rooboy wrote:There's a difference between being embedded and 'normal' war photography. I'd imagine to be embedded with a unit you'd have to go through military channels to get authorisation, and I wouldn't like your chances unless you have some press credentials (NB: This is pure speculation on my part).

I think this type of photojournalism (war correspondence) is amazing, at work we have a book with every Pulitzer Prize winning shot and all of them are just stunning. The Vietnam shots are some of the most famous photos ever taken, for good reason. I couldn't do it myself, but I have so much respect for those that do.

Robert Capa said "If your pictures aren't good enough, you aren't close enough." He got too close - died from stepping on a land mine . If you decide to do it, be careful.

rooboy,
Monday when you come for returning the loaned gear, I'll show you a ton of book about war correspondences, especially VN War as Larry Burrow, one of my best friends during my time, he was MIA and now confirmed KIA. and many others.
In the old days, war correspondences were easy to get in and mixed with any teams (friend and foes).
But now and especially these times, war correspondences required to be embedded, no way you can get into the briefing rooms or near any military zones without accreditation and authorization, not even saying that they'll let you board a military aircraft or a Navy vessel.

Michael wrote:I've read a few books from freelance embedded journalists this has probly helped to stoke the photojournalism fire for me a bit, this is something id love to get into one day.

one day.

Join the Army and fly gunship mate!

......... check out the price of a good bullet proof vest....... add 2 or 3 d2x camera bodies a lot of len's........ and this is before you leave the country

big pix wrote:......... check out the price of a good bullet proof vest....... add 2 or 3 d2x camera bodies a lot of len's........ and this is before you leave the country

And have your will with my name on it as one of the beneficiaries

birddog114 wrote:rooboy,
Monday when you come for returning the loaned gear, I'll show you a ton of book about war correspondences, especially VN War as Larry Burrow, one of my best friends during my time, he was MIA and now confirmed KIA. and many others.

I was sure I knew that name, and after a quick google search, I remembered why: these images are among the most famous from the war. An amazing photographer.

birddog114 wrote:In the old days, war correspondences were easy to get in and mixed with any teams (friend and foes).
But now and especially these times, war correspondences required to be embedded, no way you can get into the briefing rooms or near any military zones without accreditation and authorization, not even saying that they'll let you board a military aircraft or a Navy vessel.

That doesn't surprise me at all, and I think it's partly why we don't see the same sort of photography coming out of Afghanistan & Iraq as from VN.

big pix wrote:......... check out the price of a good bullet proof vest....... add 2 or 3 d2x camera bodies a lot of len's........ and this is before you leave the country

In Saigon macka and I saw a Nikon F (possibly F2) which had stopped a bullet . It wasn't going to take too many photos, and the back plate protruded a good inch or two, but somehow, I don't think that the photographer would have cared too much! For comparison, there were a few Leicas which had holes right through them . Nikon build quality wins

Edit: sorry for pulling this off topic. If a mod wants to move/delete anything, go ahead (make my day )

rooboy,
That books is one of my favorite book, gave to me couple years ago from my colleagues in the US, and an Epson P-2000 at the end 2004

birddog114 wrote:

Michael wrote:I've read a few books from freelance embedded journalists this has probly helped to stoke the photojournalism fire for me a bit, this is something id love to get into one day.

one day.

Join the Army and fly gunship mate!

My entire family about 3 generations worth are green I thought I'd try something differen't however I'd love to learn to fly a chopper.

Michael wrote:

birddog114 wrote:

Michael wrote:I've read a few books from freelance embedded journalists this has probly helped to stoke the photojournalism fire for me a bit, this is something id love to get into one day.

one day.

Join the Army and fly gunship mate!

My entire family about 3 generations worth are green I thought I'd try something differen't however I'd love to learn to fly a chopper.

Get up to Townsville and stay closed to the Army base, breathing the JP4 and one day you'll be on those birds at the control.

If i still had flight sim 04 installed id jump in my blackhawk and fly to dili and various other places myself

I think thats about as close as I'll ever get to flying a chopper unfortunatly.

Michael wrote:If i still had flight sim 04 installed id jump in my blackhawk and fly to dili and various other places myself

I think thats about as close as I'll ever get to flying a chopper unfortunatly.

Michael,
No to late, if you have a dream, you will get there one day.

Rooboy,
Recently, I got a book: "Lost over Laos" by Richard Pyle & Horst Faas courtesy from Matt.K, thanks Matt! They are both war correspondences in that era and friend of Larry, the fatal and last flight of Larry Burrow with other well known war correspondences as Shimamoto, Huet, Potter.
I was there on those days in the AO, but did not fly that mission, that why I'm still typing on the keyboard today.
Great book about tragedy, friendship and mystery.

Since I started photography in year 11 at my school using film, my passion has always been for photos I've taken to tell storys. I'm only 20 so I have a LONG time to find my little niche but I eventually hope to one day go OS and do these sorts of things and document things the average everyday individual doesn't get to see.

which is the reason why I started this thread, I love getting down and dirty in the muck and capturing a moment, an expression something thats hopefully worth more then a thousand words something that stirs a feeling deep inside someone.

Michael,
If you have an opportunity to visit Sydney, welcome you to my base, you can put on a flight suit, flight helmet and completed survival jacket with gears and pretending you're one of the jockey.
I will show you more of my works during that era.

Michael
There'e nothing to stop you flying over right now and shooting as a freelance. You don't need to get into the military briefings, they'll feed you what they want anyway, and you can hire a car and go where you want and shoot what you want. The images can be sent unsolicited to any newspaper or magazine and if they like what you shoot they'll eventually hire you and get you accredited. Many Vietnam photographers got started that way.

When I can afford to have 2 d2x's or equivalent in the future hanging off of me and various good quality pro glass is the time I think I'll get started on this sort of work, id really love to do it even if it was only once.

Actually, I'd probably find shooting in that sort of environment interesting.

I quite enjoy the PJ work when I do it, the odd times, even if some of the people can be assholes to work with.

Being a combat photographer seems like an exciting pastime... But having been shot at in training (with live ammo) and once in real life, I can assure you any glamour soon begins to evaporate. Trying to fit your upper body and head inside a bullet resistent vest makes you look like a scared turtle!

Michael, if you want to start down the path of a combat/war photgrapher, you could do a lot worse that find out who/what your local Reserve Unit is and try to organise through them to join them on a training exercise. It will give you the opportunity to photograph soldiers doing what they do. You could offer a few prints to the Unit for their 'Boozer'.

I think it will be the Royal Queensland Regiment you'd be looking for, I think they are an infantry unit.

Good luck regardless, it certainly wouldn't lack excitement!

Raskill that actually sounds like an idea, a friend of mine used to be in the reserves in toowoomba so I know exactly where the office is and the worst they can say is no.

Might be worth a bit of a try one day.

Michael, i'll swap places with you for a day. I know where i'd rather be right now. Do you have beer in your fridge and a remote for your TV?

No beer in the fridge, but I do have pay tv surround sound and a 3 remotes.

I know exactly where you are coming from. This has been my dream for quite a few years now... and one day it will happen.

The US have some great programs so that freelance pj's can embed, not just members of the media. However it will take a long time before the AU government see the value in embedding freelancers.

I think it's definatly something for me to work towards, itd be one of my dreams come true pretty much, quite a bizarre dream some would say though.

xerubus wrote:
The US have some great programs so that freelance pj's can embed, not just members of the media. However it will take a long time before the AU government see the value in embedding freelancers.

Mark,
I don't think the AU Govt. will, coz they have had enough problems with all the media and they have their own people to do or cover the jobs for them and they can control by shut those mouths up with gaffa tapes.

birddog114 wrote:

xerubus wrote:
The US have some great programs so that freelance pj's can embed, not just members of the media. However it will take a long time before the AU government see the value in embedding freelancers.

Mark,
I don't think the AU Govt. will, coz they have had enough problems with all the media and they have their own people to do or cover the jobs for them and they can control by shut those mouths up with gaffa tapes.

you are spot on there Sir Birddog... I have spoken with quite a few people in the Army about embedding and the replies have always been that it is an 'in house' role. Sadly it's just as difficult to tag along at an exercise.

cheers

Mark,
I'm currently doing some works at RAAF Williamtown for a private company in IT (Contractor) and met 4 x RAAF photographers, we exchanged our stories same as talked much into their lifes and roles, they are equipped with all the top gears which people are always dream to have.

I often met them at Officer clubs or on the tarmac or at their office or in the hangars, they earn good wages and pay packets and they are on call 24 hours if there's any emergency or immediately needs, they travel in military aircraft accross the world, with VIP or with their own people.

Defense Force Policy: No private contractor or personnel getting involve with their internal life (military media).

Close family friend of ours was a very highly accrdited photographer and has won mant POTY awards with various news affiliations.He used to run around bosnia and crotia with a few topend canons and his flack jacket while the troops around him fired thier canons.He was paid very well but you only need one stray one to finish the day off badly

Every job has its risks, you have a desk job and you risk being bored to death.

Joining the army/navy/airforce as a photographer/journalist would nearly be worth it but I also would imagine that just shooting one thing all the time would get a tad boring but maybe I'm wrong.

It's nearly be worth joining if you were gaurenteed that position or a position like it but I'm lead to beleive that you join the army and they put you where they want you.

stephen wrote:Close family friend of ours was a very highly accrdited photographer and has won mant POTY awards with various news affiliations.He used to run around bosnia and crotia with a few topend canons and his flack jacket while the troops around him fired thier canons.He was paid very well but you only need one stray one to finish the day off badly

That's the life of War Correspondences! not unusual!
Look at the invasion of Coalition of Willing into Iraq, how many war photographer and film crew were killed?
And back to VN War? World War II?
They accepted their fate and exhange their blood for their works!
Their personal weapons and ammo are cameras and films, but those weapons killed people more harder than the conventional weapons.

Michael wrote:... but I also would imagine that just shooting one thing all the time would get a tad boring but maybe I'm wrong.

I disagree

If it's a passion I don't think you will ever get bored, as long as you challenge yourself enough and push yourself to get that next shot. I've been doing the fire stuff now for about 12mths... and shoot something related every day.. and each day it's a new challenge and i look forward to the next day.

You are probably spot on about "they put you where they want you." I guess you would just make the most of where you are.

cheers

True I had a quick think about it and I thought nah that wouldn't get boring because there would never just be one thing, silly me.

Michael,
Every photo, regardless war or peace, all have its meaning.
And doing a job as war photographer or journalist, you'll face each day with difference story, the way you see thru the lens of each scene will interpret into diiference feeling.

I flew everyday, did the routine job as preflight check, at the control, take off and landing, shooting rockets, but I still love do it now if I could.

The PJ life is the same, they have to get out and go hunting their photos, bring back and give to their editors, that's!

They often do not see their photos (the result of their labour) at the end or their photos are never used or published, trashed all in the bin.

The next day they gone out again and do the same thing. That's life as I said.

I think that more war correspondents have been killed in Iraq since the fall of Saddam than in the whole of the U.S. Vietnam conflict.... Must be getting to be a dangerous job....

Raskill wrote:I think that more war correspondents have been killed in Iraq since the fall of Saddam than in the whole of the U.S. Vietnam conflict.... Must be getting to be a dangerous job....

You're correct!
There were more dangerous jobs for war correspondens/ Journalists in VN War than the recently invasion in Iraq, but the casualties were lower.

both sides have started targeting the free press.

Being honest impartial and independent is not safe anymore.

Not sure if you have seen these, but here's a set of photos from Dili by a SMH photographer... http://www.smh.com.au/photogallery/2006 ... 86245.html

has anyone heard of Ashley Gilbertson. well he's a friend of a friend. he used to skate and take photos of his mates skating and is now an award winning war photojournalist (he was awarded with the robert capa gold medal).

"The day I sold my skateboard to buy film was the day I knew I wanted to become a photographer"

google his name for more info. btw, he's a nikon shooter.