DSLRUsers.com

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:25 am**

See this article in the Melbourne Sun.

(Warning, the Melbourne Sun is the crappiest excuse for a newspaper this side of News of the World, and appropriate care must be taking reading anything in this deplorable rag)

The mental giants at Southbank Management have decided to ban photography to deter terrorists. Good grief.

To quote from the article...

"We've had a couple of incidents of tourists taking photos of obscure things, and they were approached by security and asked to stop taking photos," Southgate property manager Kathy Barrance said.

"It was just the facades of buildings, things that would be of no interest to put in a photo album."

It is reassuring that Kathy is making this value judgment on what constitutes interesting photographic material. Idiot.

One shop owner who did not wish to be named, questioned whether there were any vital targets in the complex.

''It's a bit much. I know they are trying to protect us, but it's just a food court," she said.

The shop owner seems to have considerably more sense than Kathy. Actually, a piece of bread has more sense than Kathy.

I was slightly heartened by this

Victoria Police told the Herald Sun it was unlikely any police officers would order the removal of images from a camera under such circumstances.

"I've checked with our privacy people and they said there's no law against taking photos," a spokeswoman said.

I almost contemplated writing to my local member about this, but it is not the one to fire up about. It is just some stupidity from a property manager.

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:30 am**

Your last sentace is right... thats it...

and for one security personell (I dont know about police) can not remove photos or demand to have you remove photos from your device...

terrorists my arse... people are so paraniod these days...

Stupidity + paranioa = freaky times

Plus, its not the ones you can see you should be worried about.,.. I'm sure a terrorist would be a lot more descrete

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:55 am**

It makes me so angry.

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:56 am**

Exactly Scott.

I despair sometimes.

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:58 am**

Me too Willy.

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:02 am**

Quick!

Man the fridge magnets!

On a related note (d# sounds good this morning) I heard a report this morning where the golfers in the British Open (was that the one over the weekend) were complaining about people using cellphone cameras and PHDs and shooting at any and every opportunity they could.

The report specifically mentioned that the pros were not the issue, just the great unwashed, who were a great unwashed distraction to the players.

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:11 am**

Imagine if everyone at a football match had to be vewy vewy quiet when someone was taking a shot at goal!

Golfers and tennis players seem to have no capacity to resist distractions whatsoever.

I am going to get a "I AM A PHOTOGRAPHER, NOT A TERRORIST" t shirt or perhaps a sign for my backpack (DSLR Users merchandise possibility?)

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:19 am**

Greg,

When I heard about this on the news this morning my blood boiled.
I immediately thought about organising some sort of petition or protest or something to rebuke this utter stupidity. Then I thought about some sort of DSLR accreditation or something like a t-shirt or a lanyard with details of our club or something!!!

Just anything so that when mr security guard, guarding our safety from people with fucking cameras, comes up to me and tells me that my camera poses a security threat I can wave my badge at them and tell them that I'm NOT A FUCKING TERRORIST!!!!

Jesus it makes me angry, and I'm sorry to swear!

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:24 am**

Greg B wrote:Imagine if everyone at a football match had to be vewy vewy quiet when someone was taking a shot at goal!

Golfers and tennis players seem to have no capacity to resist distractions whatsoever.

Precisely!!! And can you imagine the ground announcer telling the crowd to keep quiet while Brett Lee is stampeding in from the Vulture St end to bowl on the first day of the Ashes?!

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:25 am**

Greg B wrote:I am going to get a "I AM A PHOTOGRAPHER, NOT A TERRORIST" t shirt or perhaps a sign for my backpack (DSLR Users merchandise possibility?)

That is an awesome idea!!!!!!

I would offer to organise it but I am pretty busy atm.. but if some one did organise it I would buy one!

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:42 am**

I don’t know what you are worried about :roll:

It’s simple, if approached by an idiot and asked to cease and desist, politely agree and then whisper ”I’ll be back, with my AK47” :evil:

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:49 am**

Unfortunately this is what happens when the uninformed masses see one or two stories from the mainstream news broadcasters who feel that fear-mongering sells, and think they're an instant expert in the field of international politics.

Will there be a time when people are saying "I may be chain-smoking, but at least I don't take photos of interesting architecture"?

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:51 am**

rokkstar wrote:Greg,

When I heard about this on the news this morning my blood boiled.
I immediately thought about organising some sort of petition or protest or something to rebuke this utter stupidity. Then I thought about some sort of DSLR accreditation or something like a t-shirt or a lanyard with details of our club or something!!!

Just anything so that when mr security guard, guarding our safety from people with fucking cameras, comes up to me and tells me that my camera poses a security threat I can wave my badge at them and tell them that I'm NOT A FUCKING TERRORIST!!!!

Jesus it makes me angry, and I'm sorry to swear!

Matt, I love your passion and I agree with you 100%

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:53 am**

Another Marketting weenie who invents and then believes their own Bulls*t :shock:

The Southgate precinct is supposed to be a tourist area. Most of it is also a public area.

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:55 am**

Ivanerrol wrote:Another Marketting weenie who invents and then believes their own Bulls*t

The Southgate precinct is supposed to be a tourist area. Most of it is also a public area.

Exactly.

Idiots. Stupids.

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:59 am**

My suggestion for the t-shirt slogan:

"I'm not a terrorist, and I'll bomb anyone who suggests otherwise"

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:00 am**

Scott,

I think that Overclockers has them available.

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:04 am**

gstark wrote:Scott,

I think that Overclockers has them available.

They're not permanently available, but every now and then someone organises a group buy. Pat has one, and the words "Terrorist" and "Photographer" are bigger than the others, so from a distance...

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:14 am**

Greg B wrote:(Warning, the Melbourne Sun is the crappiest excuse for a newspaper this side of News of the World, and appropriate care must be taking reading anything in this deplorable rag)

Greg, have you ever read the Courier Mail? Total twaddle every time, written by journalistic nitwits, but great for starting fires with...

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:21 am**

Just read the article, the world is full of morons. Why not ban all cameras everywhere? Why stop at cameras? Why not ban all camera phones? This would be a deterrent to all terrorists, no doubt ... strike me pink, what's the world coming to.

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:22 am**

Wouldn’t it be great if serious amateur photographers gathered en mass and walked through the city streets and shopping malls blinding feeble security guards and rent a cops with our high powered flash units, with those gorillas watching powerlessly and threatening to call the police.

A photography sit in. Be a classic. Nikonian and Cannonians unite!

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:31 am**

Willy wombat wrote:A photography sit in. Be a classic. Nikonian and Cannonians unite!

As long as the Nikonians were in front of the march...

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:32 am**

Is there a Darwin award Kathy Barrance is eligible to enter? :evil:

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:43 am**

What happens if you dont stop taking photos in the area. It is a public place, so in theory the police cant arrest you or take your camera.

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:49 am**

ozimax wrote:
Willy wombat wrote:A photography sit in. Be a classic. Nikonian and Cannonians unite!

As long as the Nikonians were in front of the march...

No!

Let the Canonites take the first fire.

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:15 pm**

Screw it. The Kodakans are in the first line of fire. They deserve it if they bought that 14mp piece of junk.

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:42 pm**

macka wrote:
gstark wrote:I think that Overclockers has them available.

They're not permanently available, but every now and then someone organises a group buy.

Actually, I think they ARE permanently available. I think this is where OCAU gets them from: CafePress.

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:56 pm**

Ahh didn't realise this thread was already started

I'm thinking of marching down towards southgate on the weekend and point my nice telephoto lens at the buildings and security personnel

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:03 pm**

Nnnnsic wrote:Screw it. The Kodakans are in the first line of fire. They deserve it if they bought that 14mp piece of junk.

Good idea Leigh.

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:15 pm**

Reading this, all I can do is shake my head - WTF ? Being the arts capital of Australia, didn't think it would happen in Melb, but I guess the fed government's fear mongering campaigns over the last couple of elections over terrorism have had their effects.

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:21 pm**

MHD wrote:
Greg B wrote:I am going to get a "I AM A PHOTOGRAPHER, NOT A TERRORIST" t shirt or perhaps a sign for my backpack (DSLR Users merchandise possibility?)

That is an awesome idea!!!!!!

I would offer to organise it but I am pretty busy atm.. but if some one did organise it I would buy one!

name a colour shirt, colour print, design and i'll knock a few together.
cheaper than cafepress as well.
shirts and polos

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:23 pm**

Willy wombat wrote:Wouldn’t it be great if serious amateur photographers gathered en mass and walked through the city streets and shopping malls blinding feeble security guards and rent a cops with our high powered flash units, with those gorillas watching powerlessly and threatening to call the police.

A photography sit in. Be a classic. Nikonian and Cannonians unite!

Not a bad idea. Manta might make a shopping centre as one of the targets in the upcoming Brisbane Hunt & Shoot.
Craig

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:26 pm**

I have dealt with these types of people many times. A little bit of power goes to their heads and they get addicted to control.

When I think that someone is attempting to exercise control improperly, I simply call them on it. It's amazing to see how quickly they retreat!

For example, I've had security guards threaten to call the police over photos I've taken. When I encourage them to call the police, they are surprised and don't know what to do. Usually they go skulking off saying that they going to do something and never return. And these have been at places where I am wearing my ASIO-checked aviation security card saying that I'm not a terrorist!

I think the mini-meet idea is great. If they hassle you, move off their property, bolt on your 70-200VRs and continue! For bonus points, invite the press to take photos of you taking photos!

Good luck!

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:25 pm**

Has anybody taken a good look at the photos used in the anti-terrorism posters? A lot of them seem to be photos taken candidly in public space...seems a bit hypocritical to me based on the purpose of the posters.

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:28 pm**

willy wombat wrote

blinding feeble security guards and rent a cops

just so you know, not all security personnel are complete FWs

I put my bag through a very quiet Coolongatta airport last week (all 6 security personnel looking particularly bored)

It took 3 attempts and lots of frowning before Mr "look at the screen for bombs, knives and contraband" turned to me and said "thats some lens you have there - must be worth more than the camera"

Alas an intelligent, photographically literate security man who can tell the difference between a 70 - 200 VR and a ultrasonic-George W destroying-laser device.

thats the good news ...

re this thread

.... IMHO Australia has become a paranoid fearful society who put their personal (wealth) security above everything else - so much so that they believe the tripe fed to them by a fear mongering govt in bed with the US (and the US$) plus a media in bed with big brother...whoever he/she maybe.

So remeber...Please dont take my photo or that of my office, playground, sportsfield, house, street, suburb, city, mountains, ocean

where will it end??? :evil:

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:30 pm**

It is sad that as a result of the US government and it's small apprentice Johnnie & Co.'s campaign to control the population through fear, that this sort of misinformation is promoted and encouraged. Of course one of the greatest demons here is ever capacious appetite of the press for bullshit, but really the best approach is to point out that they are, in fact, not within their rights to demand that you desist from taking photographs. If you wish, ask to be taken to the manager in person and ask to see the LAW in writing. Blank looks will ensue.

On the T-shirt front, put me down for a couple. Seriously!

Start the thread now. Orders taken here.
Col

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:34 pm**

obzelite wrote:
MHD wrote:
Greg B wrote:I am going to get a "I AM A PHOTOGRAPHER, NOT A TERRORIST" t shirt or perhaps a sign for my backpack (DSLR Users merchandise possibility?)

That is an awesome idea!!!!!!

I would offer to organise it but I am pretty busy atm.. but if some one did organise it I would buy one!

name a colour shirt, colour print, design and i'll knock a few together.
cheaper than cafepress as well.
shirts and polos

anything like the cafepress ones.... just with a DSLRUSERS.COM logo stamped on there as well!!

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:39 pm**

XXL for me.

My thoughts are this is a conspiracy by the vested interests of the established media / photography conglomerate to stop all these amateurs stealing their thunder... :shock:

were those tourists taking photos of boring walls really just checking their white balance / dust bunnies?

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:55 pm**

Another silly and misguided person. It is interesting to hear Ms Barrance say that photography on the promenade is all right. Of course it is!! This is a public space and not part of the property managed by Southbank Property Group. Quite a few of the tenants in the complex think that the directive is stupid, and it is interesting the read the Victoria Police's comment. Seems that they have their views on it as well

As a matter of fact, I was strolling along the Southgate Promenade yesterday, with my camera, along with quite a few Chinese tourists who were snapping away madly, and did not see one "Security Guard."

Regards
meicw

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:59 pm**

Maybe we should create fridge magnets that say something like "Be alert not stupid" and distribute them to everyone.

Seriously.. i'm all for any rally, petition, public sitting, or whatever to show the people how stupid this really is.

Geoff

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:00 pm**

'cos australia needs 'lerts'... hehehe... sorry

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:02 pm**

From the Southgate website.......

Southgate Website wrote:ABOUT SOUTHGATE

Opened in 1992, stylish, cosmopolitan Southgate is a reflection of Australia's cultural diversity, with a distinct Melbourne flavour.

Dining. Shopping. Entertainment.

Southgate has so much to offer overseas visitors, city workers and day trippers alike.

• restaurants, bars and cafés
• unique stores
• a riverside Food Court
• exciting entertainment programs
• secure undercover parking

HISTORY
Southgate has always been a meeting point on the river. A waterfall at Princes Bridge protected the fresh water coming downstream while trading ships could navigate upstream from the saltwater of Port Phillip Bay.

Located south of the river, breweries and food processing supported the growing city, and the ever increasing shipping and trading utilised the docks and warehouses nearby. By the 1940s, the Trocadero Dance Hall and the Glaciarium Ice Skating Rink sat as lonely leisure spots in the area.

The National Gallery of Victoria was relocated here in the sixties, the College of the Arts in the seventies and by the eighties, a vision of a rejuvenated waterfront and leisure precinct saw the birth of Southgate.

TODAY
Southgate today is part of the fabric of Melbourne life. Situated in the heart of the arts district, our neighbours include the Victorian Arts Centre, St. Johns Lutheran Church, Australian Ballet, Victoria State Opera and Victorian College of the Arts. You’ll also find the IBM and Herald & Weekly Times corporate towers here at Southgate.

The red highlights are mine to draw attention to the hypocrisy of their position.

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:06 pm**

Legaly they have no right to ask you to stop taking pictures, would i be wrong in saying this?

Seems little Johny isnt all that happy with what they are doing, judging from the news break i seen on TV a few hours ago.

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:09 pm**

You can get the contact info for these muppets over here - http://www.yarrariver.info/index1.html - I called their marketing department and told them their ideas are nuts (too bad it was a vm) but I'll try again a bit later.

Makes the blood boil :evil:

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:15 pm**

Anyone can ban photography on private property. If the Soutbank area is private (although publically accessible) then they are within their rights to ban photography.

Now, that doesn't meant to say it's an intelligent, rational decision.

It is an example of where anything can be justified by the threat of terrorism.

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:30 pm**

I’d like to see them try to get away with banning Arabs because of terrorism.
Photographers are a soft target, and it gives the appearance of action by banning them.
I may be wrong, but I don’t recall much info regarding the planning of past terrorist activities involving photography.

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:30 pm**

Well I just got off the phone to their national marketing manager, Lorraine, in Sydney. She said something along the lines of:
They see no reason for "back of house" photos, and if people want to take those photos then they can ask center management for permission. The frequently grant permission for students to take photos of escalators, etc - and these restrictions have been in place for ever - it is private property and they take the protection of their retailers and shoppers (safety/commercial) seriously. The property management extends to the hedges outside the restaurants, so they are not going to police photography on the river, and if people are obviously taking happy snaps of the statue then no problems. She felt that it was important for security personnel to feel empowered to be able to stop activities which they thought were inappropriate in their centers. She quoted an email from a photo pro that supported their position.

I thought her position was reasonable. I do still think that the very concept of putting up "no camera" signs in a very public (although private property) place seems unfriendly. So they have the right to deny photography without prior permission - maybe just a sign of the times....

Cheers
gary

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:34 pm**

obzelite wrote:name a colour shirt, colour print, design and i'll knock a few together.
cheaper than cafepress as well.
shirts and polos

You might want to take a look at this thread over at OCAU:
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showt ... p?t=464064

The person organising it has to pull out and I'm sure there'd the'd be happy for someone to pick it up and extend it over to here as well.

Back on topic I believe the ban is "no cameras" (someone from OCAU are headed there this afternoon to take photos of the signs to clarify) so as one caller pointed out on radio this morning will stores have to remove their private security cameras? Shoplifters will no doubt be happy.

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:38 pm**

Yep, that is the issue. If the property is privately owned, and virtually everything inside a building is privately owned, the owner has the right to restrict or prohibit photography. Additionally, some areas have statutory control imposed, the rail network is an example and we have discussed that before.

If you are in a public space, I reckon you are in the clear to take photographs, and I would think that you can take photographs of anything you like except where prohibited by law in which case there would be a notice. A military base is an example.

Frankly, the idea of prohibiting photographs in a tourist precinct is just plain stupid. Stupid. And for the property manager to decide that taking photographs of something she couldn't see as interesting was an indication of terrorist activity, and I think that is a reasonable interpretation of what happened, beggars belief.

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:38 pm**

i just sent a message to http://www.southgate-melbourne.com.au/contacts.php

where they invite you to [b]Please take the time to fill in your details along with any comments or suggestions you may have to help us improve our service for you.[/b]

Anyway it makes me feel better..no doubt wont make much difference to them even if they get loads of calls emails etc with the same sentiment (ie I'll take my camera (and family & $$) elsewhere.

start production on the tshirts!!

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