DSLRUsers.com

... about their lack of Pro lens releases. Here is my email and the response.

I have a couple of lenses in for repair (28mm f1.4 and 85mm f1.4) at the moment. And it has been a pleasure to deal with your service staff at Homebush. Very professional

I do have a question about your PRO lens line up. I am disappointed that there has been little to no new PRO lenses released by Nikon in a while. No new WA f1.4 lens nor AFS updated to the 85mm f1.4, 135mm f2. Although these lenses are great optically, they are slow to focus and noisy. Canon are constantly updating their PRO lenses, F-mount users appear only to get soccer-mum zoom lens updates.

As a working PRO wedding photographer I wonder if the PRO lens market has been forgotten? As that is the impression I'm getting.

cheers,
Andrew Pade
http://www.catoandpade.com.au

and the reply

Dear Andrew

Thanks for the feedback on our service team. We appreciate you taking the time to let us know your thoughts.

As for the pro lenses Nikon are constantly evaluating the performance of lenses and the demand from pro shooters such as you.

I will forward on this email to the product development team and Nikon Professional Services representatives so that they understand your situation and can feed this into future product development discussions.

One of the great things about being a Nikon Pro Shooter is that the development teams do contact us for feedback and listen to what is said. So I can assure you that your sentiments will be heard.

Regards

Craig

So guys, get busy on the feedback section on the Nikon website. You never know, they might just do something.

They then basket balled it into the nearest waster paper bin whilest the whole office rocked with laughter.

But then again it may be just the letter that starts them getting serious about their lens production.

Very cynical Matt. Maybe, just maybe they do give a stuff about their existing customers. maybe.....

Andrew
I hope you're right. Like you I often wonder why they make some nice glass but never finish the job properly. The 85mm you mentioned is a perfect example. It could have been a world class classic with a tad more refinement.....and added VR?

Maybe they are just biding their time until Sony takes them over

sirhc55 wrote:Maybe they are just biding their time until Sony takes them over

sirhc55 wrote:Maybe they are just biding their time until Sony takes them over

Start saving money to jump over to the dark side when this happens

Yi-P wrote:

sirhc55 wrote:Maybe they are just biding their time until Sony takes them over

Start saving money to jump over to the dark side when this happens

Jump I would take a bloody flying leap

His email sounded like perhaps he might have shared your view andrew?

About time the working professionals made their voices heard.

Nikony.

You may need to wonder, however, how much feedback from pros like Andrew Nikon get - the R part of R&D does generally involve a two way street between developers and end-users, and if the users (particularly pros in this case) only sit back at their keyboards and bemoan the lack of development, it does make it harder for a company like Nikon to get their act together. I am not trying to defend Nikon.

P

The one thing i have learnt about Nikon since getting into cameras is their lack of Pro support.
for myself this isnt a huge problem, but being a massive Nikon fan now, i would hate to be in the position some people are (Dan comes to mind RE D200) where their 'Pro' cameras are not cutting it. Lens are another issue and i have not got much to say about them because i have no idea on them!

Reschsmooth wrote:how much feedback from pros like Andrew Nikon get

I can only speak from knowing people who work for the light side of the farce, but that lot get a heap of feedback - apparently they regularly survey counter staff at CPS to find out what the members have been saying at the counter, as well as looking at service records. Plus (not being a CPS member I'm going off hearsay) they respond to demand from members. Although, as you might guess, for Canon Pro does mean "member of CPS" to some extent. But they must be aware that the other 50% of L purchases are wannabe's like me

edit: I mean, the 16-35II was largely a reaction to the copious whining from people that the MkI is just not sharp in the corners.

moz wrote:

Reschsmooth wrote:how much feedback from pros like Andrew Nikon get

I can only speak from knowing people who work for the light side of the farce, but that lot get a heap of feedback - apparently they regularly survey counter staff at CPS to find out what the members have been saying at the counter, as well as looking at service records. Plus (not being a CPS member I'm going off hearsay) they respond to demand from members. Although, as you might guess, for Canon Pro does mean "member of CPS" to some extent. But they must be aware that the other 50% of L purchases are wannabe's like me

edit: I mean, the 16-35II was largely a reaction to the copious whining from people that the MkI is just not sharp in the corners.

The corollary of that, given my understand of Canon's release of pro lenses, is that Nikon either don't get the feedback or don't listen to it.

P

I am a Canon user so I watch the Nikon world with only a passing interested, however....

Nikon gave up producing all but a couple of their film cameras so that they could focus their efforts on digital, the results of this seem to be nothing more than an ever increase range of lower and lower end SLR's. I'm not saying that there bad cameras, just that they don't seem to be putting any effort into the PRO end of the market.

I don't know if it is that they don't care about the high end of the market or that they are unable to react, surely just the fact that they are being outsold by such a huge margin by Canon should be enough to make them look at what they are doing.

I for one want to see Nikon get some really good stuff out there if for no other reason than that it will force Canon to try even harder and that will be a good outcome for everyone.

tbgphoto wrote:Nikon gave up producing all but a couple of their film cameras

Actually, they're down to just the F6 now. The FM10 is dead and buried.

so that they could focus their efforts on digital, the results of this seem to be nothing more than an ever increase range of lower and lower end SLR's.

High-end PHDs, if you like.

High margin, high volumes, low costs.

Look at their bottom line.

I'm not saying that there bad cameras, just that they don't seem to be putting any effort into the PRO end of the market.

We're waiting to see who disagrees ...

I don't know if it is that they don't care about the high end of the market or that they are unable to react, surely just the fact that they are being outsold by such a huge margin by Canon should be enough to make them look at what they are doing.

See above: look at their bottom line.

The problem I see with that approach is that, in the late 70s, Pentax started to abandon the pro market when they switched to the K-mount, and started manufacturing Volkscameras.

It works.

For a while.

I'm guessing there is an element of funding involved - new lenses do cost a fair bit to develop especially at the high end. In a way I think Nikon has made the right choice there - come up a with a few really good lower end lenses (one of the kit lenses is surprisingly good IIRC, and then there's the 18-200VR... the Canon competition to that is over $5k but it does come with a free full frame camera )

I can't help wondering how long it will be until Sigma buy Nikon just for the lens badging. I would be amused as all hell to have a Nikon lens on my Canon camera

I can in part understand why Nikon have focus their efforts, the low end gives volume and return, and they have done pretty well in this, but they need to put more effort into the highend because I really wouldn't want to see them taken over by the likes of Sigma and just become a badge.

Only time will tell whether Nikon continues in the pro market or releases a new pro-lens or body.

Perhaps their lack of penetration and reduction of user-base in the pro-market will be the deciding factor.

Nikon Imaging is a company that needs to make a profit and if that profit comes mostly from the lower end of the market, then it makes sense to focus on that section. I can only imagine how difficult it would be to increase market share against the huge plethora of competitors in that market. The pro market has less profit as there is a much lower volume of sales. Canon seem to be doing well in both markets and are increasing market share in the higher one.

We will just have to wait and see.

A bunch of incompetent jokers is all Nikon are. AND i shoot with their gear.....not for much longer i might add. They really couldn't give a stuff about the higher end user, the war is over Nikon threw up the white flag just after releasing the D200 (remember how long we all had to wait to get one?)

I have no real idea what pros want, but I do have a good idea of what I want. The D200 is a joy to use, the 105 is a beautiful lens as is the 80-400 VR which is extremely good value for what you get. The SB800 is a work of art (notwithstanding the confusing manual). Canons are good too, I have a couple of them - albeit not SLR.

The D70 was pretty useful too, and the kit lens that came with it continues to punch out of its weight.

Nikon is an incredibly successful company - notwithstanding some well publicised stuff-ups like the D70 problem with the BLOG or BLOD or GLOD or whetever, and the banding on early D200's. I guess they are not as incompetent as some would like to think, and they retain significant support. For those who don't like Nikon, there are plenty of other options. Use them.

Killakoala wrote:Nikon Imaging is a company that needs to make a profit and if that profit comes mostly from the lower end of the market

Yes, but how much of that is driven by the prestige marketing ploy of having pro toys available? I'm more inclined to believe Sony than Nikon when it comes to marketing smarts, and their fake "prototype" pro cameras at PMA were a bit of a giveaway on that front.

My suspicion is that the Canon 1-series make little or no direct profit, but are funded as a technology driver as well as a marketing effort. That wall of white you see at pro sport definitely counts as advertising dollars.

I could not agree more with Moz, the value of R&D and brand awareness is where Canon get there value from the 1-series.

All true Greg. All I want now is an FM radio built into my next Nikon so I can listen to Alan Jones whilst I'm prowling the street.

Matt. K wrote:All true Greg. All I want now is an FM radio built into my next Nikon so I can listen to Alan Jones whilst I'm prowling the street.

Alan Jones......god help us

Alan Jones......god help us

But we need to listen to Alan so we know where the next riots will be!
You've go to think of the photo ops

moz wrote:That wall of white you see at pro sport definitely counts as advertising dollars.

It counts as advertising dollars for the pros. For the average consumer, white lens, black lens, they don't know which brand it is and most likely don't really care.

What will get them in terms of advertising is the banners/boards that get flashed in front of them.

As an example, at the swimming championships in Melbourne, Nikon was a major sponsor. There always seemed to be a Nikon sign when they were interviewing someone. Sometimes you could see a pro photog in the background with a white lens. I bet you most consumers would remember the Nikon sign. Amateurs like us and the pros know what brand is the white lens, but as others have said, Nikon make their money elsewhere.

I am still hopeful that we will see some great gear from Nikon RSN. For me, I'm happy with my gear and certainly that's not the limiting factor, it's the computer behind the viewfinder that limits it.

As Andrew said at the start of the thread, make yourself heard to Nikon, sometimes/eventually they will listen. Failling that, feel free to jump ship, I'm always looking in the bargains section

Cheers,

André

Plenty at the Baseball too, even one right behind the home plate Umpire.

One thing easily overlooked is the distribution channel. Here in Newcastle I can walk into a number of electrical stores (from Harvey Norman through to Myer) and amongst the offerings there are certain to be a number of Canon Point and Shoots. If I'm lucky there will be a Nikon. So when first exposed to cameras as a purchase chances are that (if one of those 2 brands is purchased) it's a Canon. When someone then thinks about moving to DSLR they are already primed to like Canon (after all they DO make good cameras) based on experience with that brand. So off they troop to a store that sells DSLRs. In Newcastle guess what you find? Canon, Canon and Canon. Not a Nikon in sight. Guess what brand of DSLRs get sold most in Newcastle? And it's not a tiny place - the Newcastle & Lake Macquarie region has a population of about 340,000 people.

stubbsy wrote:One thing easily overlooked is the distribution channel. Here in Newcastle I can walk into a number of electrical stores (from Harvey Norman through to Myer) and amongst the offerings there are certain to be a number of Canon Point and Shoots. If I'm lucky there will be a Nikon. So when first exposed to cameras as a purchase chances are that (if one of those 2 brands is purchased) it's a Canon. When someone then thinks about moving to DSLR they are already primed to like Canon (after all they DO make good cameras) based on experience with that brand. So off they troop to a store that sells DSLRs. In Newcastle guess what you find? Canon, Canon and Canon. Not a Nikon in sight. Guess what brand of DSLRs get sold most in Newcastle? And it's not a tiny place - the Newcastle & Lake Macquarie region has a population of about 340,000 people.

I noticed this in Sydney too, although I think the situation has improved somewhat these last few months. When I bought my D80 last Nov, the only retail shops where I could play with one were the photographic shops. These days, a D40/D80 can be found on display sitting next to the 400D/30D in big electrical chains like Bing Lee/Harvey Normans.

This is probably the result of Nikon Aust cleaning up their act after the Maxwell debacle.

Ben

Alpha_7 wrote:Plenty at the Baseball too, even one right behind the home plate Umpire.

Craig, I must say those grand-stands look pretty steep - even compared to the MCG! And the Yanks still have an obesity problem!

P

Let's just say that Nikon and Canon are just flavours that we like.

Maybe Nikon should take note of that Giant Glass sign and work together with them to get some big glass out.

Nnnnsic wrote:Maybe Nikon should take note of that Giant Glass sign and work together with them to get some big glass out.

Well spots, but sadly I've lead this off topic.

I love to see Nikon response to the Pro and Semi-Pro market with some top quality glass and updates to some already good lenses. It would definitely bring a bit of life to the upper end of the spectrum, and also cause a cascade affect.. Pros drop their second hand 85 1.4 for the new AFS 85 1.4 VR, or something along those lines.