ND FILTER QUESTIONS

[jamesw]

hey guys,

i am pretty keen to get some filters and shoot a bit of landscape photography... get back to basics a little bit.

where do i start with filters? i would like to get a few ND filters so i can stop bright skies down, has anyone got any tips for me - particularly exactly what i'll need to start off with, and where to purchase from at a reasonable price.

any help is appriciated.

cheers,

james

[radar]

James,

you probably want some graduated ND filters for landscape photos. They are good for sunrise/sunset. I use the Hitech variety that I ordered from here:
http://www.teamworkphoto.com/hitech.html

I'm pretty happy with the set of three that I got.

They fit in a Cokin P filter holder. I got that at Vanbar in Sydney. A lot of places sell those on ebay. Cokin also make grad-ND. If you want to spend a lot of money, the Leigh or Singh-Ray filters are meant to be the best. Search on google, you'll find lots of references. Plenty on the forums here to.

If your scene is fairly static, HDR is an option as well for those bright skies, look at the photomatix software. Photoshop CS3 also does it pretty good, I am told.

That should get you started

cheers,

André

[glamy]

I was going to comment on the post that was after Radar's to say that in my opinion CPL filters give the sky a quite unnatural look especially on wide angle lenses. GND filters give the best results. I use hard edge over water and soft edge elsewhere. I would start with a 3 stop GND, I use the 2 stop far less than the 3stop. Also all my lenses take the same filter size which makes it easier.
Cheers,
Gerard

[Wocka]

On Monday I placed an order from http://www.2filter.com/prices/htpackages.html the following HiTech GND kit.

Qty Name SKU Each Sub Total
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Hitech P 58mm 0.9 S.L. Grad Kit HT58GD9S $55.54 $55.54
1 Hitech P 62mm 0.6 S.L. Grad Kit HT62GD6S $55.54 $55.54
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shipping: INTERNATIONAL $26.50 (6-10 Day Delivery)
Grand Total $137.58 USD

The 0.6 kit is on backorder, expected to take 7 days to fill.

I did lots of reading on POTN about which way to go. My understanding is that Lee / Singh-Ray / HiTech then Cokin is the preferred order of filters, depending on your budget. The Cokin filters aren't neutral and have a grey tint to them which affects the image.

To add to what Glamy and Radar have already typed:

Then you need to choose which size filter you want.
Cokin P = 84mm wide x 110mm height
Cokin Z = 100mm wide x 125mm height
Cokin X = 130mm wide x ???mm height

Soft Edge = Great for horizons that don't have a definate line (eg mountains / buildings)
Hard Edge = Great for flat/ sharp horizons (eg oceans)

The P series limits it's filters to about 77mm lens diameter size. On a 77mm lens you only have 23mm from middle to adjust the filter up and down. So if your horizon isn't in the middle or close to it, then you don't have a lot of room to play with.

The Canon L glass start @ 77mm. I don't have any L, but also didn't want to have to re-purchase all the filters again. This is where I stopped and thought for a long time about which path I wanted to take. The Z series http://www.2filter.com/prices/Hitech_Z_package.html are more than double the price of the P. I ended up going the P as I just couldn't justify the cost yet of the Z when I don't have L glass. I'll worry about the larger filters when I get to that point.

What I have noticed is that there isn't a lot of original Lee / Singh-Ray / HiTech or Cokin gear on Ebay worldwide. So I'm hoping I'll be able to sell my filters if I want to without loosing too much on them. 2nd hand filter stuff sells very quickly on POTN.

Some nice info here http://www.2filter.com/faq/techgradinfo.html

Cheers

[glamy]

All my lenses are 77mm and I find I have plenty of room to adjust my P size filters up and down, I never felt limited in any way. Cokin suggest 82mm for the P series.
Cheers,
Gerard

[MarkW]

I was going to comment on the post that was after Radar's to say that in my opinion CPL filters give the sky a quite unnatural look especially on wide angle lenses.

As an easy example have a look at most of the books on landscape photography, the photographer usually lists a CPL rather than ND or GND. NDs & GNDs are generally reserved for effects such as softening water in falls or waves by using higher stops rather than to produce a landscape.

NDs & GNDs wont make the clouds "pop out", won't give saturation to the sky without changing the land side of the colour balance and won't reduce haze from refracted light. If you preference is for an "as you see it natual look" thats fine. Horses for courses but you don't find flat colours in coffee table books.

The previous post was withdrawn by me.

[glamy]

I was going to comment on the post that was after Radar's to say that in my opinion CPL filters give the sky a quite unnatural look especially on wide angle lenses.

As an easy example have a look at most of the books on landscape photography, the photographer usually lists a CPL rather than ND or GND. NDs & GNDs are generally reserved for effects such as softening water in falls or waves by using higher stops rather than to produce a landscape.

NDs & GNDs wont make the clouds "pop out", won't give saturation to the sky without changing the land side of the colour balance and won't reduce haze from refracted light. If you preference is for an "as you see it natual look" thats fine. Horses for courses but you don't find flat colours in coffee table books.


The previous post was withdrawn by me.

I am only speaking from experience

[sirhc55]

I agree with Glamy. Unfortunately the angle of light in a wide angle shot can produce a most un-natural look with part of the sky polarised and the other not. My 2 bobs worth

[glamy]

On Monday I placed an order from rey tint to them which affects the image.

To add to what Glamy and Radar have already typed:

Then you need to choose which size filter you want.
Cokin P = 84mm wide x 110mm height
Cokin Z = 100mm wide x 125mm height
Cokin X = 130mm wide x ???mm height

Soft Edge = Great for horizons that don't have a definate line (eg mountains / buildings)
Hard Edge = Great for flat/ sharp horizons (eg oceans)

The P series limits it's filters to about 77mm lens diameter size. On a 77mm lens you only have 23mm from middle to adjust the filter up and down. So if your horizon isn't in the middle or close to it, then you don't have a lot of room to play with.

The Canon L glass start @ 77mm. I don't have any L, but also didn't want to have to re-purchase all the filters again. This is where I stopped and thought for a long time about which path I wanted to take. The Z series http://www.2filter.com/prices/Hitech_Z_package.html are more than double the price of the P. I ended up going the P as I just couldn't justify the cost yet of the Z when I don't have L glass. I'll worry about the larger filters when I get to that point.



Cheers

I just measured a P size Cokin filter, it is 100mm long, Singh Ray are 120mm long. Although these may be considered expensive 20mm, it may alleviate the problem suggested by Wocka regarding the horizon adjustment.
Cheers,
Gerard

[jamesw]

does anyone have a site with a good tutorial or something for polarisers? what do they actually do?

i read through a tutorial on grad ND filters on nikonians.org, they seemed to suggest it was great for landscapes in bringing the whole scene to 6 or so stops of DR (ie so you can get a good exposure).

mmmmmmmmm