DSLRUsers.com

Being a fairly newie to this forum and to "Digital Photography" for the last three weeks Ihave been reading a
LOT of posts ,[ I'am on a long long holiday] and the knowledge one gain's
from the answer's, and different view's and opinions, is truely very informative, [I already had some of my questions aswered previously.]

I think the SITE should be congratulate
, and many thanks to guy's like[gstark...birdog...etc]
Iwould also like to ask the following question:
Why the D70 speed reading starts at 200 ISO
and not 100 ISO or 50 ISO ? bearing in mind the
quality of the camera. I always believed from my [film ] days, the lower
the ISO the finer the photo .

Is it a technical point or economical point,or simply not necessary.?

NeoN

That is true, but keep in mind that this is still a consumer DSLR.
Only Nikon's truly professional models sporting the "x" in their model names have had under 200 as a selection in their ISO, specifically the D1x sporting 125 and the new D2x with 100.

Thanks Leigh, now I know what the X means

one can only roll their eyes back and drool at the idea of the D70 having an ISO of 100 or 50 (me rolls his eyes back as slobber runs onto my shirt)

Is ISO an arbitrary rating, or a set standard?

By arbitrary I mean that the manufacturor says that that much sensitivity = ISO x.

Or is it a somehow calibrated standard? (Either within manufacturors or across)

pippin88 wrote:Is ISO an arbitrary rating, or a set standard?

By arbitrary I mean that the manufacturor says that that much sensitivity = ISO x.

Or is it a somehow calibrated standard? (Either within manufacturors or across)

Pinched from Kodak:

ISO is the abbreviation for the International Standards Organization, an agency that specifies many standards, not just photographic ones. Their standard, ISO 5800:1987, specifies how to measure the film speed for color negative film.

How is film speed measured?
The basic approach is relatively simple. The film is given a sensitometric exposure, then it's processed, and density measurements are made. The ISO speed rating is then calculated based on the exposure given to the film and the resulting density. The actual method is specified in the publication, ISO 5800:1987, and is very precise. It tells how a film should be exposed, measured, processed, stored, etc.

The page doesn't seem to be there any more, but I guess you get the idea!

Cheers

Pippin,

It's an international standard - ISO refers in fact to Internationmal Standards Organisation, and so, like film, it's telling you that there's a certain level of sensitivity to light that you can expect to see for any given rating.

Thusa you can also expect to use any flashgun or lightmeter with confidence, set at the determined ISO, and obtain predictable and consistant results.

Neon: Why? It just does... The ISO is decided by programmable gain amplifiers on the CCD chip which have a descrete number of settings... for reasons known to Nikkon they decided on that range...

however let me assure you it is not as bigger deal as everyone makes it out to be and unless you absolutely must have access to 50 or 100 ISO then dont worry about it...

The D70 is a value camera you can not expect everything... but you will be very pleasentlly suprised what you get for your 1.5K

If you want it all wait for the d2x

The Cannon 20D starts at 100 ISO.

Oneputt wrote:The Cannon 20D starts at 100 ISO.

But that's not all that relevant, at the end of the day.

There are two issues that need to be considered: sensitivity to light, as defined by the ISO, and the number of photosites that collect the light and make up the image.

IOW, you need to look at the image quality that the camera sensor can produce at it's minimum ISO.

Thus the question becomes one of comparing the D70's ISO200 image with ... whatever else you want to compare it to,

That will always be a subjective assessment, of course, and while person A's ISO200 6MP image might look better than person B's 100 8MP 20D image (or it might not), Person C's ISO100 12MP D2x image might eat them both for breakfast.

Or it might not.

But again, I stress, beyond giving you the baseline sensitivity of your camera to light, it's largely irrelevant.

Yes, but the 20D is a Canon.

And from what I'm told about it, it doesn't feel as solid as the D70... which for the type of user it's aimed at would worry me.

You know Nnnnsic,This is definitely NOT the begining of a beautiful friendship .!!
Here I'am believing all these years that an [X] meant well...a.sort..of a..NICE things err..mysterious creatures Lovely colours mainly err..Black..Red..Wine.. !! and here you are in a nannosecond telling me it's only a designation on a Nikon camera.! I'am sure [b]Glen is disappointed too .
But seriously Guys thanks for your input so far, and as MHD said is not a big deal!
By the way [b]Stark I think before 1987 it used to be called ASA[b] that is American Standard Assosiation .


NeoN

The "x" designation on these models isn't just for the ISO... from what I understand, the "h" essentially means it's a high speed camera and the "x" is for it being the highest end camera in the number bracket.

From what I understand, while the D2x pulls in at a better resolution, the D2h is still a faster camera for sports photo-journos.

So, can someone tell me what would be the main stumbling block for Nikon to have given the D70 100ISO? is it just to differentiate it from the Pro models or does it cost too much to put in a relatively cheap camera?

G'day,
I'm certainly not knowledgable on the techo side of the camera, but can the same or similar effect or end result be ahcieved by varying the exposure setting on camera (ie: exposure +/-)?

Cheers,
Mudder

Not quite... a 100 ISO would essentially cause less grain.

You can still push and pull your "film"... just not in the same way... but it won't reduce the grain in the same way a lower ISO will.

ISO 100 would be nice for slower available shutter speeds for waterfalls and the like.

If it weren't for the laws of physics as we know it today, I'd be shooting at the highest possible ISO equivalent sensitivity, as it gives you more shooting options (aperture and shutter speed range), ie. if ISO200 and ISO1600 both had equal noise characteristics, I'd pick ISO1600. Unfortunately, an unchangeable aspect of high ISO is noise. So generally in today's digital photography environment, you'd usually only bump up ISO if it's absolutely necessary to obtain a shutter speed to prevent blurring.

NeoN

NeoN wrote:I think before 1987 it used to be called ASA[b] that is American Standard Assosiation .

I'm not sure of the date, and like the conversion to metric here in Oz, it took a long time, but yes, the measurement of film sensitivity we know as ISO used to be called ASA, which stoood for, as you say, American Standards Association.

There is - or was - a secondary standard too, which was parrallel to, but used a different scale of numbers from, ASA/ISO. That was the German standard, DIN (Deutsche Industrie Norm), and IIRC, ASA50 = DIN18, ASA100 = DIN21, ASA400 = DIN27, and so on.

phillipb wrote:So, can someone tell me what would be the main stumbling block for Nikon to have given the D70 100ISO? is it just to differentiate it from the Pro models or does it cost too much to put in a relatively cheap camera?

I would suspect it's an engineering decison. The sensor in the D70 is the same as that in the D100, which also shares the minimum ISO200. My guess is that, for the sensor, they found little if any gain in terms of image quality with any reduction in sensitivity, hence that's what we've got.

Again, it's ultimately unimportant, so I'm curious: why does it bother you?

mudder wrote:G'day,
I'm certainly not knowledgable on the techo side of the camera, but can the same or similar effect or end result be ahcieved by varying the exposure setting on camera (ie: exposure +/-)?

Sort of, but no.

You can certainly pretend that you're shooting at ISO100, but what would you be gaining? An incorrectly exposed image would be the most likely result.

You can achieve exactly the same in NC by hitting the exposure compensation there.

In film processing, you can often expect to pull a slightly finer grain image from doing this and compensating in the processing - reduce development time to compensate for the overexposed image - but with digital processing, there's no real equivalent of push/pull processing from which you can derive a similar sort of gain.

Overexposing a film image might lead to some blocking in the grain and, perhaps, a reduction in the size of the grain, but in digital processing, the number of photosites (and thus any appearance of grain as well as maximum available theoretical quality) is fixed (by the sensor's size) and the only variable becomes ... exposure.

If there's an ISO 100 available on the D70 then another question and wishing, endless stop:
Can I have the ISO 10, 20, 30, 40, 50?

gstark wrote:

phillipb wrote:So, can someone tell me what would be the main stumbling block for Nikon to have given the D70 100ISO? is it just to differentiate it from the Pro models or does it cost too much to put in a relatively cheap camera?

I would suspect it's an engineering decison. The sensor in the D70 is the same as that in the D100, which also shares the minimum ISO200. My guess is that, for the sensor, they found little if any gain in terms of image quality with any reduction in sensitivity, hence that's what we've got.

Again, it's ultimately unimportant, so I'm curious: why does it bother you?

There is a camera (olympus?) that uses the same sensor as the D70 that has ISO100. It is basically held thet not having iso100 was a marketing decision to differentiate the camera and leave a little something up the sleeve for NIkon. D90?? Either way, as been stated, ISO 200 is perfectly fine and only an issue that arose because other cameras have it, why doesn't mine? Because it doesn't really need it. Just look at some of the submissions around the web, absolutely stunning images.

Andy

gstark wrote:
There is - or was - a secondary standard too, which was parrallel to, but used a different scale of numbers from, ASA/ISO. That was the German standard, DIN (Deutsche Industrie Norm), and IIRC, ASA50 = DIN18, ASA100 = DIN21, ASA400 = DIN27, and so on.

The logarithmic scale used in the DIN standard is also specified in the "new" ISO standard.

Cheers

There's one coming D90 with ISO10

Birddog114 wrote:There's one coming D90 with ISO10

whats the info the D90 Birdy? Don't hold out on us now!!!

a

atencati wrote:

Birddog114 wrote:There's one coming D90 with ISO10

whats the info the D90 Birdy? Don't hold out on us now!!!

a

Andy,
It's on its way, cos everyone seems to have lot of requesting a lower ISO and once the D90 with ISO10 came out, guess what? there are more question: how can we don't have ISO 00 I have more grain on my images and B&W CF card is on its line to shoot with

Birddog114 wrote:
It's on its way, cos everyone seems to have lot of requesting a lower ISO and once the D90 with ISO10 came out, guess what? there are more question: how can we don't hace ISO 00 I have more grain on my images and B&W CF card is on its line to shoot with

You forgot about built-in SB800 .....

Hlop wrote:

Birddog114 wrote:
It's on its way, cos everyone seems to have lot of requesting a lower ISO and once the D90 with ISO10 came out, guess what? there are more question: how can we don't hace ISO 00 I have more grain on my images and B&W CF card is on its line to shoot with

You forgot about built-in SB800 .....

Hilop,
Built in flash look hmmm! thinking! hmmmmmmm! and try to remember in its virtual manual
Yes, it has the new Speedlite SB-900s built-in with voice activated when the photog want to use flash, just say: "flash" and voice commander in adjusting -/+EV and all modes
It needs to be trained before it can be put in real use though.

Birddog114 wrote: just say: "flash"

I thought you have to say "LIGHT!"

Hlop wrote:

Birddog114 wrote: just say: "flash"

I thought you have to say "LIGHT!"

Hilop,
It can serve you: booze and softdrink same as other needs if you well train it! good D90 though! 'll order one quick!

I heard some rumours that it trains lawyers for you, acts as a ghost detector, and encourages hot women to have sex with you... but they're just rumours.

Nnnnsic wrote:I heard some rumours that it trains lawyers for you, acts as a ghost detector, and encourages hot women to have sex with you... but they're just rumours.

Leigh,
It's real!! and it'll be announced by Nikon at PMA 2005 soon! so stay tune everyone! Forget the D70, dump the D70 and go for that new marvellous toy.

Hlop wrote:

Birddog114 wrote: just say: "flash"

I thought you have to say "LIGHT!"

"Let there be light!"

Nnnnsic wrote:I heard some rumours that it trains lawyers for you, acts as a ghost detector, and encourages hot women to have sex with you... but they're just rumours.

And it'll automatically take photos for you at such locations like the beach and your local Westfield shopping centre.

It'll probably come with a complimentary towel and shopping bag, then.

Nnnnsic wrote:It'll probably come with a complimentary towel and shopping bag, then.

Leigh,
You named it has!
Can be intergrated as surveillance camera due to the nature of it , it can capture images at 0 Lux and guarantee with no grain or noise, thanks for the ISO 10 and/ on a B&W CF card.

I Have seen the LIGHT!!! and the BLUE'S BROTHERS too.

NeoN

NeoN wrote:I Have seen the LIGHT!!! and the BLUE'S BROTHERS too.

NeoN

Is that with the ISO 50?

Ok, this thread's getting out of hand. Lol.

I have to do my civic duty and lock it. Sorry all.