DSLRUsers.com

Posted: **Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:17 pm**

What to do (if there is anything I can do...)

http://www.drivebathurst.com is the site, They offer drive days, trackdays and racecar driver training, at premium prices..

Note the image of the silver porsche with the bathurst 07 decals.

Here's a screenshot of my photo in cs2, posed next to the image from their site.. http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/8984 ... umpxx2.jpg

Worth emailing them or something? I mean, it's part of their site that they are using to sell trackday events on, so theyre making money with something I produced.

I don't know.. If I had been asked permission, I just might have said go for it...

Thoughts?

Kyle.

Posted: **Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:21 pm**

if you have had no prior dealings with them:

send email requesting payment

and send letter in writing too (mention this in email)

ask for them to remove image or pay $x.

if you have had prior dealings with them, perhaps just call up and ask them wahts going on.

Posted: **Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:23 pm**

Kyle,

Have you at some point sold the image to anybody? If so, to whom?

You most certainly should send them a polite note, pointing out that you believe that they may be using your image without appropriate authorisation, and see what sort of a responde that yields.

Posted: **Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:29 pm**

This image was not sold to anyone, others from the event were to mag houses though.

Hmm, time to start writing a letter I think..

No doubt they will sell 60 odd tickets to the bathurst event... 60x average of 3000 = :shock:

Edit, the image has also been modified, they removed the dutton rally event number..

Posted: **Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:50 pm**

How did you get to notice this? Did someone tell you before or just that you randomly browsing and found this out?

I agree with the polite email asking for them to clarify this before going into too wild.

Posted: **Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:51 pm**

i would chase it up they used your image without your permission

they may want to compensate you when they are found out maybe you could use this situation to your advantage and ask them to use you for future events or compensate you in that sort of way, by giving you work

and i would get them to credit you as well thats important

if they turn out to be real bad asses well thats bad and i hope it doesnt come to that but usually when people are caught out they seem to be willing to putit behind them quickly by doing whatever

Posted: **Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:00 pm**

Found out through a friend yi-p, photos coming to you too soon btw

Ok.. I'll make contact tonight or tomorrow with them regarding this, cheers all for the input!!!

love this place

Posted: **Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:28 pm**

And quote a decent amount, it is on the front page as commercial advertisement.

Sad that people can't make the time or effort to find out who the tog is!

Good luck Kyle!

Posted: **Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:30 pm**

When you contact them inform them that you have the tools to authenticate via a checksum that the image is yours and that this evidence is admissable in a court of law. On second thoughts, that should be contained in your second letter if you don't get a polite reply to your first. :evil:

Posted: **Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:33 pm**

Matt. K wrote:When you contact them inform them that you have the tools to authenticate via a checksum that the image is yours and that this evidence is admissable in a court of law. On second thoughts, that should be contained in your second letter if you don't get a polite reply to your first.

Is it actually 100% possible to verify that it's mine Matt? I mean, apart from the obvious ways of matching fine details by eye etc...

Posted: **Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:16 pm**

Yi-P wrote:How did you get to notice this? Did someone tell you before or just that you randomly browsing and found this out?

I agree with the polite email asking for them to clarify this before going into too wild.

i pointed out to kyle, i vist the site often, well their main site (track corp) and now drive bathurst as i wanted info to possibly shoot the event. I know kyles work pretty well (having shot dutton with him) and knowing the image from here so promptly let him know.

Posted: **Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:23 pm**

Kyle wrote:Is it actually 100% possible to verify that it's mine Matt? I mean, apart from the obvious ways of matching fine details by eye etc...

EXIF data perhaps might account for it. The web image is unlikely to have the EXIF in it, but the original extracted for the web would.

Posted: **Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:31 pm**

Make sure to take a screen capture of it ASAP.

If they are bad...You can also send a letter to the hosting company.

Posted: **Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:33 pm**

Nothing further to say, cause it's been said by everyone else.

Good luck with it. You could always make it work to your advantage..... offer yourself as the official tog for the meet, plenty of dollars trackside....

Posted: **Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:37 pm**

Raskill wrote:Nothing further to say, cause it's been said by everyone else.

Good luck with it. You could always make it work to your advantage..... offer yourself as the official tog for the meet, plenty of dollars trackside....

Wont happen I dont think... theyre mates with 'drift king' the guy who does dutton and easternats i'm led to believe..

Posted: **Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:48 pm**

There is a way to compare 2 images and authenticate if they are exactly the same. You need to get a digital copy of each image and they need to be the same size and resolution. The suspect image is copied and then pasted on top of the original. In the Layers pallette the blending mode is changed to "difference'. The way this mode works is to examine the values of a pixel and the one beneath it .. if they are an exact match then it will show them as black. If the entire image is shown as pure black then the images are exactly the same. If there are any differences then colour and shapes will be seen. To test this method try the following experiment. Open an image in Photoshop and make a copy of it (Control + J). Go to the layers pallette and change the blending mode to "difference" and you will see nothing but black. Now enlarge the bottom layer and make some very slight changes such as, clone,blur, slight colour change to some part etc and then see what happens in the layer pallette.

Posted: **Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:56 pm**

So this test wouldn't help Kyle if the people who pinched the photo did some cloning or other pp work to the photo, I think kyle has already mentioned that they have done.

Posted: **Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:06 pm**

Phillip
I think if more than 70% of the image was exactly the same....considering 6 million pixels, then the mathematical odds would be extraordinary. Some localised messing with the image could well prove the image had been altered because you would know exactly where to closely examine the image for alterations. It is almost impossible to alter parts of an image without leaving a trace and this is seen at the edges of the transition when the image is greatly magnified. If the image was globally distorted or stretched then it would be impossible to prove it was a copy.

Posted: **Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:11 pm**

What if the image was resized? Wouldn't that screw up the comparison?

Posted: **Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:18 pm**

ATJ wrote:What if the image was resized? Wouldn't that screw up the comparison?

No.. Basic manipulations must be done so the features align (rotate, crop, resize). Afterwards you should see the general structure of the images match very closely when overlaid. At that point I think the evidence is pretty damning..

Posted: **Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:32 am**

Any more news on your fight, Kyle?

Mark

Posted: **Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:47 pm**

Kyle layer the 2 images in Photoshop theirs with a 70% opacity and if its the same get your lawyers involved for copyright infringment. No more said. If they used your inage witout consultation have a go!
Jethro

Posted: **Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:14 pm**

I'm having a serious case of writers block

Anyone have any suggestions as to what to write exactly?

:oops:

Posted: **Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:59 pm**

omg you suck you lazy sod you havent done anything.

"TAKE MY IMAGE OF TEH SITE YOU A*****"

HEHE just kidding.

the one you original thought of was fine mate. just quote some copyright rubbish and come up with a monetary figure

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:14 am**

Kyle
Sir
It has come to my attention that you have used one of my photographs without my permission in publication...date....page. As you are no doubt aware this is a breach of the current Australian copyright laws and it is also a form of stealing property that does not belong to you. I have invested a great deal of time ond money in my photographic endevours and I expect to be fairly compensated when my work is used as a commercial product. My normal fees for the use of one of my photographs used on a one time basis are $74.50 I would appreciate settlement within 14 days. My account details are....

Something along these lines is a good start Kyle

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:45 am**

Just sent this...

To whom it may concern,

It has come to my attention that one of my photographs has been used on your website without my permission in publication - (front page http://www.drivebathurst.com – image ‘bathurst2.jpg’ Silver Warren Luff Porsche that has had its Dutton rally competitor marking removed by retouching).

As you are no doubt aware this is a breach of the current Australian copyright laws and it is also a form of stealing property that does not belong to you.

I have invested a lot of time and money in my photography business and I think that it would be only fair that I am fairly compensated when an image of mine is used in any commercial advertising/marketing situation.

I am more than happy to release this image to you, and will provide you with a full resolution copy at my normal rate for this situation.

- One full resolution image (3000x2000 or greater) with no usage/time/copyright restrictions whatsoever will be $125.00

If you would like to discuss this matter further, I can be contacted via reply email, or phone on 0402 bla bla

How quickly do you think he will remove the photo from his site

I've got a screen shot also showing time and date..

Time will tell i guess

Thankyou all for your valid input, and mattk, thanks for the starter

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:07 am**

You're selling yourself short Kyle.

I would have restricted it to a period of 12 months and for the website only. Specially at that price.

Let us know how it turns out!

Cheers
Brett

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:05 am**

Brett, it won't matter in the long run..

Why would they pay to put a photo on their site when they can get someone elses for free... :roll:

Ahh well, time will tell i guess..

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:11 am**

Kyle wrote:Brett, it won't matter in the long run..

Why would they pay to put a photo on their site when they can get someone elses for free...

Ahh well, time will tell i guess..

Because your photos are better than the free ones and worth the price! (and no I'm not trying to blow smoke up your proverbial either).

It's the same as anything in this world (specifically photographic images), people don't place value on something that is cheap, if it is cheap it must be of inferior quality.

And when I say cheap I mean either a) free, or b) well under market rates (yeah I know, define market rates...).

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:48 am**

Got a response, very prompt and all good!

:D

Hi Kyle,

I believe that the image that you are referring to was sent to us by an
enthusiast and we were not aware that the photo was taken by you. We
generally use images that we own or images provided by the Bathurst Regional
Council on our site and we are more than happy to pay for stock images.

Please point us to your page where the image came from and by all means send
through an invoice made out to TRACKCORP PTY LTD - ABN blah blah . You
can email the invoice to me or post it to PO Box blah blah 1360.

Have you taken any images of the Mt Panorama Circuit that we may be able to
purchase?

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:56 am**

Great outcome!

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:02 am**

Great outcome Kyle!

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:07 am**

Yeah I'm quite suprised actually

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:09 am**

I'll have to get someone to 'steal' some of my pics. :lol:

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:50 am**

Kyle,

That response is precisely why you should always start off in a friendly but firm manner.

As I suspected, they probably (and truly) did not realise that the image was your's and any reputable person will, given the opportunity, be very happy to rectify the wrong, given half the chance.

Your note to them was professional and courteous, and that is exactly how your first contact needed to be.

Well done, and a great outcome.

And also, seeing how you're giving them a perpetual license to use the image, I think they've got a bargain too.

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:00 am**

Excellent Kyle plus they have opened a door for you with other images :up:

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:04 am**

Thanks guys for pusing me to take it up with them!!

If it wasnt for this thread, i would have just gotten over it and forgotten about it..

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:35 pm**

and if not for me you would have never known so 50% kthxbye cash will be fine on the weekend ;P

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:03 pm**

Invoice sent and links to other photos of interest sent

Michael, thanks mate

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:56 pm**

Well done, Kyle. Best of luck with your other photos.

Mark

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:00 am**

Well, My bank acct just recieved his payment :shock:

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:56 am**

A good result Kyle!

Great to hear the door is open for future work :up:

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:07 pm**

Great outcome!

Posted: **Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:24 am**

Whether they "received the image from an enthusiast" or whether that was just an excuse, doesn't matter - excellent result!
I suppose they could have apologised and removed it, that would have been the end of it... Now you have a potential market for more photos - go for it!

Posted: **Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:58 am**

Ding ding round two...fight...

http://www.wheelworx.com.au/round3_win.html

Two images used there in their media release, both still with circlework tags on them

Maybe I should just give up and sell my gear, it's a never ending fight to try to make money from motorsport photography... :roll:

Posted: **Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:12 pm**

A blatant breach of copyright. Get serious. Ask them for a lot more money or threaten legal action and make it look serious.
Maybe even get legal advice so you do know where you stand.
Don't be disheartened - they have STOLEN from you. If they want to purchase your photos for this purpose, they can... for a reasonable fee and WITH your permission, making it legal.
They're at fault, undeniably.
They will need to compensate you for (a) the unauthorised use of your images, (b) the use of your images. And don't forget (c) legal costs if they don't come to the party.

Posted: **Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:43 pm**

i only see one, but dont be worried kyle look at the outcome with drivebathurst just take the same approach

Posted: **Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:47 pm**

Kyle, are you sure that someone else didn't take that image and put your name and company affiliation on it :lol:

I would download the site, including the source date from when it was put up, as they will probably remove it instantly. By the look of the photo, with no concealment of your ID at all, I would guess they are blissfully unaware of copyright. This should be straightforward.

Posted: **Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:00 pm**

michael_ wrote:i only see one, but dont be worried kyle look at the outcome with drivebathurst just take the same approach

They used a 2nd one in the same release on the nissansilvia.com forums..

I had best make up some money recovery email templates soon i think, i can see this sort of thing happening more frequently...

For sale:

1d mk2n, 23k shutters, perfect condition..make an offer
70-200 2.8 non is... UT date code, immac cond
Crumpler 7mil home $100
Etc
etc
etc

:roll:

Posted: **Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:36 pm**

Kyle wrote:
michael_ wrote:i only see one, but dont be worried kyle look at the outcome with drivebathurst just take the same approach

They used a 2nd one in the same release on the nissansilvia.com forums..

I had best make up some money recovery email templates soon i think, i can see this sort of thing happening more frequently...

For sale:

1d mk2n, 23k shutters, perfect condition..make an offer
70-200 2.8 non is... UT date code, immac cond
Crumpler 7mil home $100
Etc
etc
etc

What else are you selling?

DSLRUsers.com

Image used without auhorization... Lol @ this...

Image used without auhorization... Lol @ this...