Something's been bothering me...

[sheepie]

Something's been bothering me...

Just over a week ago, broadbean made this post: http://www.dslrusers.net/viewtopic.php?t=28990&start=0

In that post, broadbean made the following statements (although this wasn't the main topic of his post, hence I've started a new thread rather than hijack that one):

One of the reasons I joined DSLRUsers (rather than just reading the odd post as a guest here and there) was because I wanted to purchase a Nikon 18-200mm VR lens ...

and

Then a couple of DSLRUser members posted the possible deals you could get over here on the Whirlpool forums. It sounded good to me, so I was happy to bide my time as there was no rush to get it for this trip.

Now please note that this isn't a comment directly aimed at broadbean, nor at anyone else in particular, BUT...

This concerns me on a number of fronts. This forum has developed on the back of great community spirit - not on the basis that it offers great bargains to it's members. When we start to concentrate on the bargains rather than the community, things start to go pear-shaped (and yes, we have had this happen within this forum in the past).

I'd hate to think that members here are promoting this site as a spot to 'catch a bargain'. Sure, tell people about how this place has a fantastic community feel to it; that we get together and have a great time; or even that the admins here are a bit grumpy at times! But please don't go telling people to come here for the bargains!

And please do not post the extent of those bargains elsewhere - this is wrong on all sorts of levels (for that matter, it could even impact on the goodwill Poon is showing us in prividing this service)!

And to anyone here that has joined with the bargains being their main aim - I really hope you come to appreciate the real attraction of this site.


{end rant}

[blacknstormy]

Here here Sheepie

[gstark]

Leon,

Thank you for raising this important issue.

This forum has developed on the back of great community spirit - not on the basis that it offers great bargains to it's members.

For some of the newer members, this is why the bargains section is not made immediately available to you. It's considered a privilege, and you need to demonstrate to the mods that you are an active member of the community here.

I'd hate to think that members here are promoting this site as a spot to 'catch a bargain'. Sure, tell people about how this place has a fantastic community feel to it; that we get together and have a great time; or even that the admins here are a bit grumpy at times! But please don't go telling people to come here for the bargains!

Absobloodylutely!

[Underload]

Couldn't agree more...well said

[Matt. K]

Now you tell me!

[Reschsmooth]

Now you tell me!

Matt, have you qualified for the bargains section yet?

Leon - well said.

[Biggzie]

Id like to say that we are not all here for the bargains. I dont expect to find any bargains for Pentax in the bargains section and I havent asked.

I agree with your rant

[MCWB]

This forum has developed on the back of great community spirit - not on the basis that it offers great bargains to it's members.

I see the point you're making Leon and I agree that the community spirit of this forum is fantastic. I disagree, however, with your assertion as I think that both of these things have had a part to play in the development of the forum. I'll happily admit that originally I came here looking to grab a good deal on a D70 and I know others have done similarly. Came here for a bargain, stayed here for the community spirit.

No-one wants this place be treated as just another retail outlet rather than the community it is, and justifiably so. There have probably been some who bought some bargains and then buggered off never to be seen again. However on the other hand were it not for this forum being suggested on other forums in connection with "the bargains" I would likely never have joined or contributed to this place. Who knows who else might also be missing from our community? Just some devil's advocate stuff, not everything is black and white...

[ATJ]

I came for the bargains (2.5 years ago) and stayed for the community. In that time I've bought a battery (from Birddog) and a lens (from Poon). At least in my case the community is winning over the bargains.

[CraigVTR]

Agree with the sentiment. Although I did join up originally to get a bargain (recommended to me by a retailer) I stayed for the advice and the community.

Due to work commitment over the last six months I have not been able to participate as much as I would like, or shoot photos, but I do check in once a week to see what is happening, pick up tips and keep a desire for photography somewhat fed. All of this I owe to a recommendation of where I could go to save a few dollars on a potential purchase.

Get em on the hook and never let them go.

[Onyx]

I dunno, IMO the hurdles that Gary makes new members jump through to access the hidden treasure of the bargains section is enough to weed out all those who come here purely for that reason. I think the membership qualification process currently in place takes care of that.

Sorry Leon, I disagree with you that people here should keep quiet about the bargains contained therein. This is not a cult. Sure, it shouldn't be the sole focus or aim of attracting new people, but it shouldn't be a hushed up secret either.

[jamesw]

i too came for the bargains...

but stayed for the active and vibrant community.

the forum is a good size; not so big that you get lost, but not so small that you have to wait forever to get a reply.

its good here.

i'd think its short sighted and a lil narrow minded to suggest hushing up the bargains section. it attracts members... in the course of the 50 post minimum i'd say you get em on the hook most of the time.

[who]

I personally don't think it has ever been said you can get a 18-200 for $x here elsewhere.....

The general referral I make is to the ebay store and I have mentioned that I have purchased from Poon both via ebay and via private order methods.

And also, how shall we put it, the redirection of photographically inclined persons here is as much about growing the community seeing as there is only a small number of people with knowledge/skill in photography actively posting on Whirlpool.

This forum is one of very few I have a regular read of, and try to contribute even though I am new to the area.

JMHO as a poster who has commented there.

[radar]

Sheepie,

in principle, I agree with your points. However, in practice, you need to get the customers in the door first. As Onyx points out, the current Member eligibility criteria tend to weed out the ones that strictly come for a bargain. What does end up happening is that in the process of the Newbie "earning" his/her Member status, the Newbie that may have come originally for a bargain, ends up discovering that there is much more to bargains here, the community is actually the best bargain around

For me, I initially joined to learn more about my D70s and I'm still here , still learning.

Good point to raise,

cheers,

André

[rangie]

Well, I can honestly say I am here to learn. I am a veteran 'lurker' and found that i only have to use the search function and I find enough answers to keep me busy!

Maybe one day I will qualify for the bargain section

[aussichef]

I came for the knowlage & community here. The bargins was a bonus which i at first didn't know about but have since used to my bank accounts reduction lol
I have found this to be a great place to learn & talk about photography
Living in the country 200 klm from Adelaide .If it wasn't for DSLRusers I wouldnt have met Fozzie, BigV, DanielA, BBJ ( weather thats a good thing i will leave up to you people lol ) & the like @ minimeets had great times in a community spirit & learnt more than i can usually remember by the time i get home again
warren aka aussichef

[moz]

This forum has developed on the back of great community spirit - not on the basis that it offers great bargains to it's members. When we start to concentrate on the bargains rather than the community, things start to go pear-shaped (and yes, we have had this happen within this forum in the past).

I didn't know that had happened, I've always assumed that the restrictions were dynamic - Gary would tighten them if he/we felt that as necessary. I fairly often point people to this forum, using the bargains as a hook, just because the other forums I'm on (Whirlpool etc) have very limited photography areas and poor search (as a result of the limited content), so that coming here and signing up works quite well for both sides. The WP camera meetups I've organised/been to have been very small (Johnno and me plus one or two others) and nothing like as good as the DLSRUsers ones. FWIW I don't post exact prices just "cheaper".

My observation of a couple of people I've introduced is that the month wait usually breaks them of the "join to get bargain" mode of thought, by then they've either lost interest or got hooked. But that might be just me.

[glennles]

I'm much like aussiechef.

I started to get a little more into photography just before going away on a trip. Craig (Alpha_7) showed me the site and I started to have a look around. I didn't even know about the bargains then except that Craig mentioned he had got some good deals through the forum.

Since then I've enjoyed throwing up some photos and getting feedback and learning more about taking pictures. I visit every day and think I learn a little bit more. Hopefully I can make the next mini meet.

I can definitely understand people who come for the bargains and get hooked. The criteria for access to the bargains is pretty good I think.

Anyway sorry for the long post.

[ATJ]

...found that i only have to use the search function and I find enough answers to keep me busy!

Maybe you need to run a tutorial on getting the search function to work.

[zafra52]

Here is my two cents on this issue. I was introduced by a friend, who told me about the bargains but insisted that these privileges were to be earned as a prize for loyalty to the club and helping others in need.

I certainly have saved a lot of money by buying my lenses through dslruser.com, but I gained more by watching, participating and asking questions. To me the real value is the knowledge that I am not alone for there is always somebody here willing to help, advise or give me an honest opinion (whether I like it or not that's up to me) on the images I choose to present, a particular technique or lens. I also value politeness, courtesy and good manners when dealing with others.

However, I believe we need to exercise caution and common sense with the bargains for we do not want to attract unwanted attention from business competitors or Poon's discontent and risk loosing them.

[gstark]

the month wait usually breaks them of the "join to get bargain" mode of thought

You'd actually be surprised by how many members ask for advancement as soon as they've hit their 50 posts.

What's less surprising is that we, the mods, can predict just which members are going to be asking that question once they hit their 50th post. In that regard, we have a very good hit rate.

Just to reiterate this... the absolute post count is merely a guide. If we consider someone has demonstrated what we want to see after just 30 posts, then that will not be an issue.

Our most important point is community participation, and that includes such things as attendance at our shoots, minimeets, etc. Make 30 quality posts including an image or two, turn up at a shoot and join in the fun, and there'll not be any issues.

Act like a prat and piss off a couple of the mods, or myself ... not the suggested course of action.

[gstark]

...found that i only have to use the search function and I find enough answers to keep me busy!

Maybe you need to run a tutorial on getting the search function to work.

Nah ... it's not as effective as we'd like to believe it to be.

[glamy]

I found this forum after searching the net. I first was not attracted to join because of the ever present thread "Who can play the guitar?" . Then I found good information and was hooked after my first mini meet where I found out about the bargains. I think that if I had known about them I would have joined earlier in spite of the thread mentioned earlier...

Cheers,
Gerard

[gstark]

but I gained more by watching, participating and asking questions. To me the real value is the knowledge that I am not alone for there is always somebody here willing to help, advise or give me an honest opinion (whether I like it or not that's up to me) on the images I choose to present, a particular technique or lens.

And there's the reason we exist.

I think I'm safe in saying on behalf of the mods and KMs that there is nothing that we enjoy more than seeing the newer members listen, learn, and improve their photographic skills through the facilities we offer.

And we learn too, in the process, so it's trule a win-win situation.

we do not want to attract unwanted attention from business competitors or Poon's discontent and risk loosing them.

Business competitors are not a concern, in that I welcome the fact that members can and do choose to buy their gear elsewhere. We offer a facility that I think provides fair trading at a fair price, and which also helps to support the forum along the way. But I recognise that every person needs to act in their own best interests, and I accept that that might mean that they might shop elsewhere. That's fine, and it's as it should be.

As to Poon, the relationship there is simply getting stronger, and that too is good.