How would you light this?

[losfp]

I have to take a group photo of about 50-55 people, somewhere in Milsons Point. I found a semi-interesting spot with a partial glimpse of the bridge



Taken with a "pretty decent" phone camera

So I'm thinking about 3 rows of people, the front row kneeling, and possibly getting benches / chairs for the back row, or maybe just sitting (precariously) on the fence there. I can get in a bit lower, get the bridge taking up more of the sky.

Took this around 5pm, which would be roughly the time of the photo. As you can see, it'll be bright in the background, and shadow in the foreground.

Now, I can do one of two things, I can either take multiple exposures and blend in photoshop (or use HDR), or I can try lighting it.

I have 2 SB800s, light stands and umbrellas. I can simply set one up on either side, fairly close to the group and then blast them. But would I have enough power from the SB800s to balance out the background if it's still quite a bright afternoon?

Any lighting gurus care to give any suggestions? I've never done anything like this before, with so many people.

[W00DY]

I think we need one of Gary's special emergency mini (well maxi in this case) meets to practise... can we get 50 people

I'll let more experienced lighters answer your question as I would do what you said, just set the SB-800's up and blast them

[gstark]

Taken with a "pretty decent" phone camera

No such thing.

And I'm not seeing your image either.

Regardless, you're talking about shooting three rows of about 20 people per row, and wanting to have the background.

What glass are you thinking of using, and on what body?

I would have very little confidence in anything less than about four or five SB800s ... which means that you'll be using available light.

Depending upon the light, try to get some incident readings, and set your camera accordingly. Slowish shutter speed may be needed, camera mounted on a tripod.

If you're using an incident reading, then your background, if the sun is still up, should be pretty good.

Watch shadows: late afternoon can be very harsh. Try to position your subjects so that the sun is behind them, but also off to one side. Essentially, they should be backlit. Rim/hairlighting can be attractive.

HDR is probably not an option: can you get your subjects to all pose in exactly the same position three times, over an elapsed time of several minutes?

[losfp]

Hence the winky smilie, Gary

Yeah, I'm under no illusions as to the enormity of trying to light that many people with a couple of hotshoe flashes. HDR is a definite possibility BUT it will have to be manually blending two exposures (tripod of course) in photoshop, due to the likelihood of movement in the frame.

Going to be a pretty tough assignment. They have only got 20 min allocated to the group photo, and that doesn't give me a lot of time to fire some shots after getting everyone arranged, even allowing for some set up and testing time for myself beforehand. Our marketing manager wants it to be outdoors, but maybe she will relent and find a good spot indoors at the hotel where they are holding the conference.. Hopefully it rains

I think I'm going to get her to scout out a possible indoor location in case of incelement weather anyway. I am thinking the Tamron 28-75 because it's a nice fast lens, that is pretty sharp. Maybe the Tokina 12-24 if necessary, but I want to keep that as a last resort because I'd prefer not to get the distortion. If I can get a nice angle on it, possibly the 70-200 - stand back and flatten it out a little.

[shakey]

HDR is probably not an option: can you get your subjects to all pose in exactly the same position three times, over an elapsed time of several minutes?

There is a "high speed" HDR technique. Not one I've used. Don't know whether Nikon bracketing and shooting modes allow it. Not something I'd rely on without some practice but here you go.

http://www.outbackphoto.com/CONTENT_200 ... index.html

[Matt. K]

2 SB-800s will easily light 55 people. Get them into 3 rows as you describe. Take care if using a fence or standing them on chairs in the back row. If someone falls you may be liable because they are under your control/direction. You are responsible for their safety during that period. I would suggest using a 50mm lens if you can get back far enough and and maybe F4 to throw the bridge out of focus. It will still be recognizable out of focus. Focus on the middle row. When they have left...or before they get there...shoot a couple of frames exposing for the background....but at F4, just in case you decide to blend 2 images for effect. It's good insurance. PS....I have found shooting groups with the longer focal length lenses gives a more natural perspective and a more interesting image.

[gstark]

2 SB-800s will easily light 55 people.

Bounced into umbrellas?

And keeping them out of the frame?

I'm not that confident.

[dawesy]

Not a lighting guy (yet) but I reckon it's doable. I'd be using the SBs with no umbrella, set to their widest setting on either side of the frame point on at 45 degrees. I'd also suggest going back for another test shoot and set up the camera and flashes and expose that hedge or whatever correctly. If it is, the people will be! Then you can also experiment with shutter to balance the background and see if your sync speed is a limitation or not.

I'm sure strobist has some articles on doing this so I'll see if I can find something. He has certainly used 2 sbs for groups this big before, from memory in dingy inside rooms where the sbs were the only light.

[dawesy]

The strobist group shot article:
http://strobist.blogspot.com/2007/05/on-assignment-two-speedlight-group-shot.html

My suggestion was in fact the 'this is how you could do it but I'm doing it cooler' part of the article, but he gives some detail to show it can be done. Also shows that the sb alone can light that many people. Others that may help:

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101-balancing-flash-and.html
http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101balancing-flash-with.html

A test shoot seems the best way to know what it going to go like, and you only need a couple of people and the fence to know the result, or move one person around for multiple exposures and compare.

Good luck!

[losfp]

2 SB-800s will easily light 55 people.

Bounced into umbrellas?

And keeping them out of the frame?

I'm not that confident.

Given the size of group and the likely ambient light conditions, I probably wouldn't use brollies at all - just stick them on stands and move them in as close as possible. Maybe I'll get lucky and it'll be an overcast day

[Matt. K]

At F4 and 200 ISO the SB-800s should throw to over 15 mtrs. I'd set them to minus 0.7 anyway so 20 mtrs would be more likely. No umbies needed I've used 1 SB-800 to fill flash groups of 60 and it worked fine. Just one tip....if using 2 flashes at 45 degrees then wind one of them down a little. If they both put out the same amount of light then you will lose modelling on the faces and the image will appear a little flat. Second tip...get there early with an assistant and set up lighting so that you get the modelling you want on one face. Use the same lighting for 55 faces. Be sure to photograph the entire group and don't cut their legs off at the knees in order to get bigger faces. This is a common and fatal mistake. Leave a little space arount the group.
Good luck.